Hot racing coming up in Australia

[Frankschleck]

Re: Re:

Am I the only one in here rooting for Viviani? I think he is a more complete rider than Ewan.

No bad feelings towards Ewan, but Viviani is my definition of a real sprinter who is also a strong track rider and powerful workhorse for the team on the flat and cobbles.

Ewan is a lot better climber tho and probably faster. Viviani is defiantly a fantastic track rider, but would honestly say that Ewan is the better allrounder. But anyday I would chear for Viviani. His name is so cool hahaha.

I actually think Viviani is the better climber of the two. Especially on longer climb with somewhat mild gradients. Viviani has a stronger engine. Ewan is better in an uphill sprint tho'. And as you stated, properly more explosive.

The way I see Ewan is a Kittel who can survive some tougher hills.

I think Ewan proved himself to be better than that last year. Both in MSR and especially in the Tour of California stage that Toms Skujins won. Viviani wouldn't have survived those climbs.

Also in some of the hilly austrailan national championships. No contest Ewan is a better climber, faster and probably also a better classics rider as well. But Viviani is better mentally and therefore also a better sprinter while he also has a bigger motor in my opinion.

And don't forget the under 23 World championship in Firenze.

 

[42x16ss]

Viviani can read a boulevard sprint like today far better than Ewan. His timing is a lot better too.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Am I the only one in here rooting for Viviani? I think he is a more complete rider than Ewan.

No bad feelings towards Ewan, but Viviani is my definition of a real sprinter who is also a strong track rider and powerful workhorse for the team on the flat and cobbles.

Ewan is a lot better climber tho and probably faster. Viviani is defiantly a fantastic track rider, but would honestly say that Ewan is the better allrounder. But anyday I would chear for Viviani. His name is so cool hahaha.

I actually think Viviani is the better climber of the two. Especially on longer climb with somewhat mild gradients. Viviani has a stronger engine. Ewan is better in an uphill sprint tho'. And as you stated, properly more explosive.

The way I see Ewan is a Kittel who can survive some tougher hills.

I think Ewan proved himself to be better than that last year. Both in MSR and especially in the Tour of California stage that Toms Skujins won. Viviani wouldn't have survived those climbs.

Also in some of the hilly austrailan national championships. No contest Ewan is a better climber, faster and probably also a better classics rider as well. But Viviani is better mentally and therefore also a better sprinter while he also has a bigger motor in my opinion.

Depends what you mean by "classics". He can't ride the cobbles at all.

 

[Bakkie]

The Italian championships, viviani did fantastic things on a hilly.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Am I the only one in here rooting for Viviani? I think he is a more complete rider than Ewan.

No bad feelings towards Ewan, but Viviani is my definition of a real sprinter who is also a strong track rider and powerful workhorse for the team on the flat and cobbles.

Ewan is a lot better climber tho and probably faster. Viviani is defiantly a fantastic track rider, but would honestly say that Ewan is the better allrounder. But anyday I would chear for Viviani. His name is so cool hahaha.

I actually think Viviani is the better climber of the two. Especially on longer climb with somewhat mild gradients. Viviani has a stronger engine. Ewan is better in an uphill sprint tho'. And as you stated, properly more explosive.

The way I see Ewan is a Kittel who can survive some tougher hills.

I think Ewan proved himself to be better than that last year. Both in MSR and especially in the Tour of California stage that Toms Skujins won. Viviani wouldn't have survived those climbs.

Viviani did survive in MSR, he finished with the same time as Ewan. He did the year beforehand as well.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

Am I the only one in here rooting for Viviani? I think he is a more complete rider than Ewan.

No bad feelings towards Ewan, but Viviani is my definition of a real sprinter who is also a strong track rider and powerful workhorse for the team on the flat and cobbles.

Ewan is a lot better climber tho and probably faster. Viviani is defiantly a fantastic track rider, but would honestly say that Ewan is the better allrounder. But anyday I would chear for Viviani. His name is so cool hahaha.

I actually think Viviani is the better climber of the two. Especially on longer climb with somewhat mild gradients. Viviani has a stronger engine. Ewan is better in an uphill sprint tho'. And as you stated, properly more explosive.

The way I see Ewan is a Kittel who can survive some tougher hills.

I think Ewan proved himself to be better than that last year. Both in MSR and especially in the Tour of California stage that Toms Skujins won. Viviani wouldn't have survived those climbs.

Viviani did survive in MSR, he finished with the same time as Ewan. He did the year beforehand as well.

In Sanremo he was exhausted and unable to sprint and the Poggio wasn't even hard ridden.

 

[ThePirate81]

Viviani was close to win Gand-Wevelgem though and won the Italian Championships RR on an hard route.

 

[King Boonen]

I'm sure those goalposts were somewhere else last time I looked...

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re:

I'm starting to suspect Bahrain might be the team with the biggest height-difference in this race.

Just look

Until ICA put Dunne and Avila in the same race...

 

[Nirvana]

Re:

I'm sure those goalposts were somewhere else last time I looked...

If almost everytime we talk about Viviani there are the same arguments to make him looks a better climber than what he really is it's a logical consequence.

And in the meanwhile came out again also the urban legend of the hard national championship.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I'm sure those goalposts were somewhere else last time I looked...

If almost everytime we talk about Viviani there are the same arguments to make him looks a better climber than what he really is it's a logical consequence.

And in the meanwhile came out again also the urban legend of the hard national championship.

Poster stated Viviani wouldn't have got over the climb. It was wrong (I'm not sure if the poster was referring to MSR, it's a little unclear but that's how it read).

Viviani beat Ewan at MSR in 2017.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

I'm sure those goalposts were somewhere else last time I looked...

If almost everytime we talk about Viviani there are the same arguments to make him looks a better climber than what he really is it's a logical consequence.

And in the meanwhile came out again also the urban legend of the hard national championship.

Poster stated Viviani wouldn't have got over the climb. It was wrong (I'm not sure if the poster was referring to MSR, it's a little unclear but that's how it read).

Viviani beat Ewan at MSR in 2017.

I meant the climbs in Cali where the favourites' group ended up consisting of around 20 riders including Sagan and, shockingly, Ewan.

He did get over Pogggio, so of course that wasn't what I meant...

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I'm sure those goalposts were somewhere else last time I looked...

If almost everytime we talk about Viviani there are the same arguments to make him looks a better climber than what he really is it's a logical consequence.

And in the meanwhile came out again also the urban legend of the hard national championship.

Poster stated Viviani wouldn't have got over the climb. It was wrong (I'm not sure if the poster was referring to MSR, it's a little unclear but that's how it read).

Viviani beat Ewan at MSR in 2017.

I meant the climbs in Cali where the favourites' group ended up consisting of around 20 riders including Sagan and, shockingly, Ewan.

He did get over Pogggio, so of course that wasn't what I meant...

That's how it read though. Didn't Sam Bennett get over in that group? Do you think he's a better climber than Viviani?

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

I'm starting to suspect Bahrain might be the team with the biggest height-difference in this race.

Just look

Until ICA put Dunne and Avila in the same race...

Which still won't be this race. :razz:

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

I'm sure those goalposts were somewhere else last time I looked...

If almost everytime we talk about Viviani there are the same arguments to make him looks a better climber than what he really is it's a logical consequence.

And in the meanwhile came out again also the urban legend of the hard national championship.

Poster stated Viviani wouldn't have got over the climb. It was wrong (I'm not sure if the poster was referring to MSR, it's a little unclear but that's how it read).

Viviani beat Ewan at MSR in 2017.

But he never showed to be able to contest it, on the other hand Ewan this year easily won the sprint behind Nibali and with a better organization on the Poggio he would have won.
I think Ewan has showed that he can be a bit better on some occasions but both are overrated by some, i don't think they are better climber than average sprinters level.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

I'm sure those goalposts were somewhere else last time I looked...

If almost everytime we talk about Viviani there are the same arguments to make him looks a better climber than what he really is it's a logical consequence.

And in the meanwhile came out again also the urban legend of the hard national championship.

Poster stated Viviani wouldn't have got over the climb. It was wrong (I'm not sure if the poster was referring to MSR, it's a little unclear but that's how it read).

Viviani beat Ewan at MSR in 2017.

I meant the climbs in Cali where the favourites' group ended up consisting of around 20 riders including Sagan and, shockingly, Ewan.

He did get over Pogggio, so of course that wasn't what I meant...

That's how it read though. Didn't Sam Bennett get over in that group? Do you think he's a better climber than Viviani?

Okay, but it wouldn't have made sense.

Bennett didn't get in that group (he was riding the Giro at the same time). Bernal was third in the sprint.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-of-california/2018/stage-3

 

[Nirvana]

Last year during the Giro Bennet was the only sprinter in the first group in the stage of Gualdo Tadino but also in the stage he won in Imola there was selection with only 51 riders in the peloton.
And before he was very good also in Rund und Finanzplatz finishing in the very reduced first gruop along classics riders like Kristoff, Naesen, Matthews.

 

[Anderis]

I seem to recall that when watching Tour of Britain in 2013, when Sam Bennett was still a conti team rider, I had an impression that he was more of a puncheur than a typical sprinter. He finished 2nd ot this, rather selective stage:
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-of-brittain/2013/stage-2
I also remember him attacking on a hill at some point of the race but it was so long ago that I can't remember the details.

 

[Frankschleck]

But no. Everything shows Ewan has a better climber than viviani. It is ignorant to think otherwise. Of course none of them are that good climbers but Ewan has a few preformances where he accualty climbs pretty well. Some uphill sprints he won, austrailian national champs some years go, and of course the under 23 Florence world championships, where he finished with some 20 riders of top level climbing wise if i remember correctly. As for the classics i think Ewan is better as well, due to everthing shows he is better in milan san remo even though 2017 was a fluke. viviani has never looked good at the race, as well as any sprinter can win gent- welhgen with the right team, and i believe if Ewan had been in vivianis posistion as last year he would at least have been closer and in my opinion none of them gonna be really good on the cobblestones, so i belive Ewans as a better classics rider and therefore a better allrounder. But viviani has a fantastic mentally, and will probably win most wins this year.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

I'm sure those goalposts were somewhere else last time I looked...

If almost everytime we talk about Viviani there are the same arguments to make him looks a better climber than what he really is it's a logical consequence.

And in the meanwhile came out again also the urban legend of the hard national championship.

Poster stated Viviani wouldn't have got over the climb. It was wrong (I'm not sure if the poster was referring to MSR, it's a little unclear but that's how it read).

Viviani beat Ewan at MSR in 2017.

I meant the climbs in Cali where the favourites' group ended up consisting of around 20 riders including Sagan and, shockingly, Ewan.

He did get over Pogggio, so of course that wasn't what I meant...

That's how it read though. Didn't Sam Bennett get over in that group? Do you think he's a better climber than Viviani?

Yes Bennett is a better climber than Viviani. For example in the last Giro, in both of the two toughest maybe there will be a sprint, maybe not hilly stages, Bennett made the front group with apparent ease while Viviani got dropped. These were the stage Mohoric won and the second of Bennett’s wins. He’s a weird guy to use as a comparator though, as he’s a very good if inconsistent climber by the low standards of sprinters.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

But no. Everything shows Ewan has a better climber than viviani. It is ignorant to think otherwise. Of course none of them are that good climbers but Ewan has a few preformances where he accualty climbs pretty well. Some uphill sprints he won, austrailian national champs some years go, and of course the under 23 Florence world championships, where he finished with some 20 riders of top level climbing wise if i remember correctly. As for the classics i think Ewan is better as well, due to everthing shows he is better in milan san remo even though 2017 was a fluke. viviani has never looked good at the race, as well as any sprinter can win gent- welhgen with the right team, and i believe if Ewan had been in vivianis posistion as last year he would at least have been closer and in my opinion none of them gonna be really good on the cobblestones, so i belive Ewans as a better classics rider and therefore a better allrounder. But viviani has a fantastic mentally, and will probably win most wins this year.

Ewan would NEVER survive Kemmelberg.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

I seem to recall that when watching Tour of Britain in 2013, when Sam Bennett was still a conti team rider, I had an impression that he was more of a puncheur than a typical sprinter. He finished 2nd ot this, rather selective stage:
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-of-brittain/2013/stage-2
I also remember him attacking on a hill at some point of the race but it was so long ago that I can't remember the details.

He actually won the “queen stage” of that race from a select group of a dozen and at one point was the only guy to follow an attack by Quintana. Nairo then dropped him of course, but in that early period of his career his DS and others thought he would be a fast hilly guy rather than a bunch sprinter. It didn’t work out that way and he’s no Sagan or Matthews, but despite inconsistency he’s still better at climbing than either Ewan or Viviani (although Ewan might continue to improve as a climber as he’s both young and very light).

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Okay, but it wouldn't have made sense.

Bennett didn't get in that group (he was riding the Giro at the same time). Bernal was third in the sprint.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-of-california/2018/stage-3

Sam And Sean, Sorry, I mixed them up!

 

[Squire]

What's up with EF? Four guys left behind by the peloton!

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

What's up with EF? Four guys left behind by the peloton!

Morton punctured with 3.5 kms to go. I don't know about the rest.

Also, an Astana rider crashed quite spectacularly with about 30 kms to go. I wonder why they didn't show that again. It wasn't exactly because there was too much action going on.