How did Contador win the 2011 Giro ?

[Winterfold]

Is there a "he's doped just like all the other top GT men and crushed them anyway" option?

+1

He was racing the second division.

But... the result seems the inevitable outcome of Bjarne + Berty

 

[killswitch]

I'd say Andy could be a talent since he was great as a young rider (second place in the 2007 Giro) but that could also be because he got "juice'ed" early as ****. I mean let's face it, Basso (CSC) + Riis = Mega doping (2005). Andy joined in 2005...

Andy was hyped as early as 2004 (18/19 years old). Doping programs need time to be refined and are made individually for every athlete. Basso took three years to get from top 10 GT contender to Giro 2006 level. IMO he has the natural talent (second in his first GT - he couldn't have known how his body would respond in the second and third week).

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

this Giro win was very much in the vein of TdF 99-05 when the winner was on a different level. There's a new doping Doc who Contador has an exclusive with or is Ferarri now working for Riis?

Whatever, he doped and he doped well.

I asked this question in the road racing section and didnt get an answer, does anyone recall a rider who could climb and TT as well as Contador. The 2 seem at opposite ends of the spectrum but he can win both MTF and TTs How? Dope that is my answer.

He's with Pepe Marti (ex-USP/Disco) who he has been working with since 2007.

Who Marti links into (Fuentes or Ferrari or A.N.Other) I am not sure.

I agree with you about the 1999-2005 comparison - boring, predictable and embarrassing for the sport.

My guess is that the authorities thought that Dertie would be a good boy (a la DDL) and not take the ****, or keep his head down (a la Menchov) but instead he goes flaunts his doping. It was almost as if he and Riis were taunting the UCI, RCS and ASO with their doping.

 

[ManInFull]

So, are you saying that we should only believe a winner's performance if it's a tightly contested contest until the every end of the Tour? What's the limitation on the winning margin before we are to believe that doping occurred?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I don't get what your point is.

Benotti said it reminded him of 1999-2005 and I agreed because I found the stages, boring, predictable and embarrassing, just as I found the TDF 99-05 boring, predictable and embarrassing.

It's a subjective opinion, like every other opinion on the forum, and one which I am quite comfortable with.

 

[Angliru]

I may be naive but I tend to think that with all of the controversy surrounding him he would not dare risk getting caught. Keep in mind that the Schlecks were not in the race and neither was Cadel. That is why the race was not close. The Tour will be a different race although I still think AC will have a close win. The bottom line for me is that he does not enforce the Omerta like Strongarm did (see Emma O'Reilly's letter this month to Bicycling magazine where she states she was terrorized for 2 years by him). So I can not understand the animosity toward AC building up as much as it is toward LA.

If you do a history of most that have this intense animosity towards AC you'll find that they were likely those that vociferously defended LA at all costs. They are likely quite bitter that their hero has been exposed with his grand legacy threatened. AC is the conduit by which they vent their frustrations.
Add to that AC being the one who failed to genuflect in the presence of the great one upon his "2nd resurrection", thus ruining another beautiful fairy tale that seemed to be, in the mind of LA and his minions, a forgone conclusion.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

The flipside, is that some of Dertie's biggest defenders are the people who hate Armstrong the most. My enemy's enemy is my friend.

IMO they are both boils on the **** of the sport and the sooner they **** off and never darken the peloton again the better.

 

[Angliru]

I'd love to believe in a level playing field. but I don't.
A level playing field would not be able to explain Spanish dominance in so many sports disciplines. I think over there in Spain they are willing to take the extra risk and go for the special sauce. Doping in Spain, IMO, is at a different level still.

Oh so that's your issue. You're po'd that Spain has finally caught up with the rest of the world that was cheating the past 2-4 decades. It's just that now Spain is the only country in the world with athletes that dope. Yeah that explains it all quite clearly.

 

[Angliru]

ok, good points.
but that doesn't keep me from firmly believing that AC's dominance is not a mere matter of superior talent in a level playing field.

this guy's got the words "juiced to the gills" written all over his face.
I think he's been on HGH for some years now, accompanied by a state-of-the-art bloodprogram.

Can you give me another example of this phenomenon? I dont' believe I've ever seen it before. It would help me to more easily identify the guilty culprits.

 

[pmcg76]

As I said before, Contador didnt look superhuman at the Tour last year but he was still a doper regardless. Apparently he looked superhuman at the Giro but wait, compare the results from last years Tour to the Giro, both Joaquim Rodriguez and Roman Kreuziger finished approximately 11minutes behind Contador at both the Tour last year and the Giro this year so there is no obvious improvement over those guys at the Giro.

Menchov is the big loser here dropping 10minutes but surely Menchov is getting a bit long in the tooth and would he have even been at the Giro except for GEOX didnt get invited to the Tour. Also this Giro was not exactly Menchov friendly in terms of route but hey, easier to just throw out the random Menchov is doping less angle without any conceivable evidence or reason why he would be doing so.

Fignon won the 84 Tour by over 10mins, LeMond & Hinault finished over 10mins ahead of the 3rd place rider in 86, Delgado won in 88 by over 7mins, all bigger margins than Contador. Riders winning by big margins is as much attributable to competing against vastly inferior opposition as it is to doping.

There is nothing Contador can do to convince anyone he is clean so I dont see the point of all this gnashing of teeth over his perfromance which was hardly superhuman. Best GT rider of his generation won easily on a course perfectly suited for him over vastly inferior opposition. Super duper doping program my ***.

 

[sniper]

Oh so that's your issue. You're po'd that Spain has finally caught up with the rest of the world that was cheating the past 2-4 decades. It's just that now Spain is the only country in the world with athletes that dope. Yeah that explains it all quite clearly.

if you wanna put it that black and white, be my guest. I never did.
I'm just observing that the naivity in Spain regarding doping is unequalled. Unfortunately for you, I'm not the only one with this opinion, so there must be some truth in it.
If Piqué says "no nos dopamos", I guess you believe Barca is clean.
If Zapatero says AC is clean, well, who would know better than the president himself?