how long before Sagan trips the tripwire

[Square-pedaller]

Commentator on French Radio RMC just said the last time he saw someone so expansive, so arrogant was ... Ricco in 2008

 

[c&cfan]

Phil and Paul reckon he might be the next Merckx.

I wonder if he might be the next Ricco.

merckx would have been the next ricco.

 

[joe_papp]

his arrogance = regrettable

Commentator on French Radio RMC just said the last time he saw someone so expansive, so arrogant was ... Ricco in 2008

Cannot WAIT to see what cocktail of peptide hormones it is that Sagan is using. Given EVERYTHING we know about pro cycling, and what we experienced during the last 14 years, it's completely reasonable to suspect that Sagan is doping, as to be able to out-sprint the world's OTHER most elite, awesome professional cyclists - and then be able to arrogantly mock them as you cross the line smiling, hardly breathing, doing a stupid chicken dance - it REEKS of Riccò!

And to suggest that Sagan has this dominant edge b/c of the fact that he's just 22 years old...wtf? What does that have to do w/ anything and why then aren't all the other 22 year old's manifesting the same insane, seemingly dope-fueled performance ability?

But regardless of whether or not he's doped, the arrogance and disrespect for his competitors that Sagan has displayed during these two TdF stage wins is regrettable.

 

[c&cfan]

Cannot WAIT to see what cocktail of peptide hormones it is that Sagan is using. Given EVERYTHING we know about pro cycling, and what we experienced during the last 14 years, it's completely reasonable to suspect that Sagan is doping, as to be able to out-sprint the world's OTHER most elite, awesome professional cyclists - and then be able to arrogantly mock them as you cross the line smiling, hardly breathing, doing a stupid chicken dance - it REEKS of Riccò!

And to suggest that Sagan has this dominant edge b/c of the fact that he's just 22 years old...wtf? What does that have to do w/ anything and why then aren't all the other 22 year old's manifesting the same insane, seemingly dope-fueled performance ability?

But regardless of whether or not he's doped, the arrogance and disrespect for his competitors that Sagan has displayed during these two TdF stage wins is regrettable.

only someone very stupid and problematic would note see that this is sagan's talent.

 

[classicomano]

"Are you guys even trying lol!? Do the running man!"

 

[joe_papp]

only someone very stupid and problematic would note see that this is sagan's talent.

only someone very stupid and problematic would fail both to debate the issue of Sagan's suspected doping and refrain from insulting others posters, and then still fail to select the proper word in English in order to pull-off their insult.

 

[function]

I think he was brought up by the local sports system and hailed as the next god. Yet his listed power for his winning climb is something I could nearly match :

http://www.srm.de/index.php/us/srm-blog/tour-de-france/727

To me the first thing I find odd about Sagan's file is the 206 watts average.

I've seen some of Greipel's SRM Win's averaging 255+ watts in the Tour of Germany for a flat stage & on the dead flats having to average nearly 400 for the last 10 minutes (probably close to 500 watts normalized). The fact that Sagan is following arguably the strongest 3,000 meter rider in the race uphill for the last 2 minutes going 23 mph up a hill and he only needed to average 493 watts stinks to me of a slope change or a miscalibration. Cancellara can average 500 for an hour for christ's sake!

I'm wondering what Sagan's real power was...

The high average power for the last 2.5minutes was due to the initial surges at 600-750W, his power dropped dramatically whilst drafting FC barely hitting 450W, that's a lot of time to recover for the final sprint. Further, since his goal was to follow FC and not pass him, he wasn't attempting to set a power "best", just doing the minimal required to stay on wheels.

Regarding the 206W stage average, you can't compare flat road races like that, it really depends on how they're raced.

 

[function]

I guess...it seems a bit low though to me compared to a lot of other power files I've looked at.

I guess I first noticed something peculiar with Tim Duggan's US PRO power file. It seemed his threshold was set at 315 watts which for him is 5 watts per kilo or so. I've seen plenty of cat 1,2 masters 35+, 45+, etc. guys with similar (almost or at those thresholds & average power numbers throughout smaller races.) Heck I've had some numbers close to that. So I take liquigas' power meter slope's with a grain of salt.

I of course do not need to suggest doping as a reason they do not want to reveal their true power numbers, it could be to keep competitors away from having a carrot to look at.

Interesting you mention Duggan, i read that article stating his FTP at 315W but if you look at his race files e.g. from the ATOC, you'll see him doing 315W (336NP) for 23 minutes, 4hrs into an RR with the last 10minutes at 367W NP. To me it's clear that his FTP is way over 315 and the article/analyst is incorrect.

I won't embed the image since it's from Velonews.

http://velonews.competitor.com/files/2012/05/Duggan-ATOC2.png

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/tour-of-california/amgen-power-analysis-timmy-duggan_220966

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Given EVERYTHING we know about pro cycling, and what we experienced during the last 14 years

That's it. You have to go further.

 

[c&cfan]

only someone very stupid and problematic would fail both to debate the issue of Sagan's suspected doping and refrain from insulting others posters, and then still fail to select the proper word in English in order to pull-off their insult.

i would only blame him if he was using something unique/new/special/stronger. otherwise he is not doing anything wrong.. only enough to let his unique talent surface.

 

[noddy69]

i would only blame him if he was using something unique/new/special/stronger. otherwise he is not doing anything wrong.. only enough to let his unique talent surface.

??? wtf. So if he is doping its ok just not if its new.......your havin a laugh.

The contempt for the other riders with the celebrations shown at the end of that stage and the previous stage he won was hard to take, but it can be put down to youth. But partner that with the ease that he brushed the best at those type of finishes aside with ease and being hardly out of breath , well , it sets alarm bells ringing. Lets hope he is clean, but with those performances I wouldnt count on it.

 

[montagna lunga]

only someone very stupid and problematic would fail both to debate the issue of Sagan's suspected doping and refrain from insulting others posters, and then still fail to select the proper word in English in order to pull-off their insult.

sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, papp.

It amazes me that libel and groundless (apart from opinion) accusation by you is "ok" because you single out someone in the peloton, but when people point out what you have publicly admitted to and done (and often reference here), or if someone challenges you on damn near anything you post, that suddenly becomes "insulting a forum member"

Be quiet or we'll start whining to moderators too

 

[samerics]

sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, papp.

It amazes me that libel and groundless (apart from opinion) accusation by you is "ok" because you single out someone in the peloton, but when people point out what you have publicly admitted to and done (and often reference here), or if someone challenges you on damn near anything you post, that suddenly becomes "insulting a forum member"

Be quiet or we'll start whining to moderators too

Normally I have respect for a lot of what Joe says on here, but I have to agree, it's appalling that all this nonsense is being spouted without a shred of any evidence other than outstanding performances. Give the guy a chance first, if he gets caught, fine, but LeMond is deservedly cut slack because he was a rare talent, who's to say that this guy isn't? Let's see first.

 

[sniper]

Normally I have respect for a lot of what Joe says on here, but I have to agree, it's appalling that all this nonsense is being spouted without a shred of any evidence other than outstanding performances. Give the guy a chance first, if he gets caught, fine, but LeMond is deservedly cut slack because he was a rare talent, who's to say that this guy isn't? Let's see first.

Is there evidence of Lemond working with dirty doctors?
The doctors on board Liquigas are among the dirtiest in the peloton (ex-Fassa Bortolo, etc.).

 

[c&cfan]

??? wtf. So if he is doping its ok just not if its new.......your havin a laugh.

The contempt for the other riders with the celebrations shown at the end of that stage and the previous stage he won was hard to take, but it can be put down to youth. But partner that with the ease that he brushed the best at those type of finishes aside with ease and being hardly out of breath , well , it sets alarm bells ringi Lets hope he is clean, but with those performances I wouldnt count on it.[ng./QUOTE]

so what? why would he be clean? is he stupid?

 

[c&cfan]

Is there evidence of Lemond working with dirty doctors?
The doctors on board Liquigas are among the dirtiest in the peloton (ex-Fassa Bortolo, etc.).

just because people were ignorant that does not mean that lemond was clean.

anyone with a brain and knowledge about cycling knows that merckx was the one that with most benefit because of doping (number of wins).

so what?

 

[samerics]

Is there evidence of Lemond working with dirty doctors?
The doctors on board Liquigas are among the dirtiest in the peloton (ex-Fassa Bortolo, etc.).

LeMond worked on teams with dirty riders. I just used him as an example of a young man who started to fulfil his promise at an early age, Sagan could be an example of hat but you guys just want to condemn him without a scrap of physical evidence, ridiculous!! Give him a chance first!

Don't want to get off topic, you knew what I meant.

 

[samerics]

just because people were ignorant that does not mean that lemond was clean.

anyone with a brain and knowledge about cycling knows that merckx was the one that with most benefit because of doping (number of wins).

so what?

I rest my case....

Back to Sagan!

 

[hiero2]

Cannot WAIT to see what cocktail of peptide hormones it is that Sagan is using. Given EVERYTHING we know about pro cycling, and what we experienced during the last 14 years, it's completely reasonable to suspect that Sagan is doping, as to be able to out-sprint the world's OTHER most elite, awesome professional cyclists - and then be able to arrogantly mock them as you cross the line smiling, hardly breathing, doing a stupid chicken dance - it REEKS of Riccò!

And to suggest that Sagan has this dominant edge b/c of the fact that he's just 22 years old...wtf? What does that have to do w/ anything and why then aren't all the other 22 year old's manifesting the same insane, seemingly dope-fueled performance ability?

But regardless of whether or not he's doped, the arrogance and disrespect for his competitors that Sagan has displayed during these two TdF stage wins is regrettable.

I have to agree with Joe on this one. Initially, I thought to myself with pleasure "A fresh face! A new young talent!" But, he really is coming across as arrogant. And his performances are - - - ahem. Remarkable.

Well, if he doesn't get caught this year, we will see what happens next year. Perhaps another "one-year" wonder, eh?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Normally i like when Papp is writing. But he is wrong to accuse Sagan of doping b/c of his arrogant celebrations.
He is young. Young men sometimes act arrogant when beating te opposition (like C. Ronaldo in soccer, the young QB McMahon, Bolt the sprinter, many many others, even myself when i was winning).
@ hiero: Sagan isn´t a one year wonder. I wrote somewhere here last year to answer the Q "if Sagan can win LBL 10 times". I said, "yes, why not. He is that good".

But all that doesn´t mean i think he is not doping.

 

[hrotha]

Has this turned into "he's kind of a **** so he's doping?" Come on, people. The two things are unrelated.

 

[ChrisE]

Has this turned into "he's kind of a **** so he's doping?" Come on, people. The two things are unrelated.

No dude. LA spoiled the presumption of innocence for all *****.

 

[the delgados]

Relax, Joe. The authorities are no longer on your tail. You're not going to jail (thank god). No need to keep playing the watchdog.
Accusing someone of doping based on a victory salute seems a bit hysterical.
How 'bout the next guy who displays some semblance of "respect?" Is he doping?

 

[usedtobefast]

the funny thing for me, is in his interviews he is very reserved mostly.
i liked his FG.

 

[montagna lunga]

Has this turned into "he's kind of a **** so he's doping?" Come on, people. The two things are unrelated.

tell that to Armstrong's clinic fanbase ;-)