How to beat Team SKY at TdF?

["Jeff"]

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[quote=""Jeff"":3pf2nvww]I would believe those numbers. Katusha probably waste more money on mechanics, material, cooks whatever....than salary.

I have a feeling you consider Tour of Flanders or Paris Roubaix as classiques only ? Both Moviestar and Astana have riders to win M-S-R, San Sebastian, Amstel, Lombardy etc etc. Besides with Lars Boom and Imanol Erviti they have riders who can do some damage on cobblestones as well.

Seems hard to spend that much on chefs. Maybe they have Jamie Oliver cooking for them? Anyway, poor word choice, I meant to say any dedicated classics riders. No, Boom and certainly Erviti don't count. Also, weren't you the one suggesting that MSR and Amstel were piss-poor excuses for classics these days (I disagree on that, BTW)?[/quote]Dedicated classic riders ?

So you come up with Daniel Oss but a rider like Boom does not count ? Not a fan of Boom by any means but he's twice as good as Oss and a rider for the original classiques. This is not an opinion. You are wrong, simple as that.

Yes I was the one who said Amstel and MSR are horrible races.

 

[Singer01]

It seems interesting to me that the topic is how to beat team sky, rather than how to ensure the best all round rider wins, surely that is the most important thing (although many of the more reasonable posters suggestions would work for both).

 

[carton]

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[quote=""Jeff"":2uyrgzuf]Dedicated classic riders ?

So you come up with Daniel Oss but a rider like Boom does not count ? Not a fan of Boom by any means but he's twice as good as Oss and a rider for the original classiques. This is not an opinion. You are wrong, simple as that.

Yes I was the one who said Amstel and MSR are horrible races.[/quote]Ok fine, if you wan't to use Lars Boom as the symbol of Astana's outstanding commitment to classics riding, you can have him. Although I would also like to point out that his best result so far as a road racer has been in the Tour. In any case, just to clear it up my point is is among the that would seem (to me, obviously, but I think I've given compelling arguments supporting that belief) to heavily prioritize Grand Tour General Classification results, Sky have an overwhelming financial advantage and a greater focus on the Tour.

 

[PatrickLeeds]

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It seems interesting to me that the topic is how to beat team sky, rather than how to ensure the best all round rider wins, surely that is the most important thing (although many of the more reasonable posters suggestions would work for both).

But that's not been how the TdF has been designed for a long time - that's what the Green Jersey seems to be for nowadays.

 

[jalep]

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Some interesting opinions here. The suggestion for a team to load up on strong riders for the flatlands and attack Sky on windy/cobbled/lumpy stages (because you cannot compete with them in the high mountains) is not without merit, though would also depend on the parcours offered up.

As for that parcours, I don't believe that it should be chosen in an attempt to defeat Froome. Besides, didn't they just do this? No MTF straight away in the high mountains, less MTF's in general with more emphasis on descending, not a lot of ITT kms, and barely any of it flat.

Next years course should have plenty of ITT kms in it, with at least 50kms of that pancake flat. Not to help or hurt Froome, but just because the Tour is meant to be about deciding who the best all around rider is, and that means an emphasis on the race of truth.

A true Queen stage (220 + kms with 5 difficult climbs) would be nice too, even if that hurts Dumoulin's chances.

And bring the teams down to 7 riders tops. Limiting Sky's strength will help. The good point was made that Froome dominated the time trials. No help from his team there. Not obviously. He'd be tireder for the TT's though if he didn't have as strong a team. It does matter that his domestiques are as strong as other team leaders, because sure, Chris could claw back Fabio and Alejandro on his own on stage 15 for example, but that would mean expanding extra energy, physically and mentally, which would count later. And so maybe he let's them go, and they get thirty seconds up the road, and things get a little interesting. Anyway, if you have 6 riders, then you can't really be super strong in both the flat road and the mountains, which Sky as a 9 man unit obviously are. 6 riders might mean that Sky have 6 strong climbers, but then a team like BMC for example might pick 4 strong roulers, and make things interesting on some other stages.

Congratulations to Froome regardless. Was clearly the strongest rider at this year Tour.

Yeah and I didn't think about this (the bolded). Froome has grown in confidence over the years -- he lets riders like Fabio and Alejandro go without flinching. Complete confidence in his team and himself = sleeps well at night/ no mental/emotional energy spent. One mistake he made was over-confidence / invincibility on that wet descent stage 19 - but other than that ??

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

It seems interesting to me that the topic is how to beat team sky, rather than how to ensure the best all round rider wins, surely that is the most important thing (although many of the more reasonable posters suggestions would work for both).

Its totally different discussion, I cant see what it has to do with team Sky.



@jalep
Interesting post about Froome's confidence. I definitely agree and thats one of the reason Im not sure that Alberto and Vincenzo can win beat him when they have top form.He became a great rider and racer.
OTOH I still believe that Contador with great form can trash Froome's confidence. Chris is not stupid, he knows that Alberto never had form at TdF.(against CF)

 

[Nick C.]

Alberto has not had that type of form since the 2011 Giro. Even setting clinic questions aside it may well be that that time has come and gone for Alberto.

 

[DanielSong39]

If Froome is in top form and Team Sky is strong, of course he will win.

But in sports, you never know. If Froome crashes out or has a bad day or both, it opens things up for everyone else.

Froome did flame out in the 2012 Vuelta, 2014 Tour de France, and 2015 Vuelta so it's not impossible.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Combination of:

1. Salary Cap / draft
2. Teams target Sky domestiques for transfers
3. Wait for Sky to pull pin or scale back $$
4. Wait for Froome to pass prime/retire

 

[yaco]

Want to stress when I talk about attacking Sky on the flat, I'm only referring to mountain and semi-mountain stages.

 

[ILovecycling]

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Want to stress when I talk about attacking Sky on the flat, I'm only referring to mountain and semi-mountain stages.

So you meant e.g. Ventoux stage full gas riding?

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Want to stress when I talk about attacking Sky on the flat, I'm only referring to mountain and semi-mountain stages.

So you meant e.g. Ventoux stage full gas riding?

You choose a team of maybe 3 climbers and 6 rouluer/flat riders. You don't have to follow Sky and select 7 climbs. Check out the times on the flat part of the mountain stages. After the initial skirmishes to make 5 he breakaway Aug speeds on the flat were barely 35kms. It was like a Sunday arvo stroll for the cyclists. You get to the mountains and it's no wonder Sky have 6 riders to set a high tempo. And of course this contributed to the small gaps in GC because riders weren't tired when they started climbing.