How to beat Team SKY at TdF?

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Be better than him. Pretty simple.

Quintana was close in 15 to his powers, so was the result. All he needed was a little more panache. Contador was trash in 13 and 15, crashed in 16. Quintana was trash in 16. The rest? Doesn't have the level.

Lo Squalo?

In 2014, yeah (I think he woulda won that Tour regardless of Contador/Froome crashes) but any other year, no.

2014 certainly was the peak of his powers and I doubt we will see that again from Nibali so you are correct.

Froome has had 2 years of pretty reasonable luck and as we have seen in cycling this doesn't last, he and Sky might look invincible at the moment but they aren't unbeatable, the biggest threat to them in this race wasn't at his best but good chance that won't be the case next year.

Nibali is still young and he can have the best season still ahead of him, so I dont agree with those comments

To the last paragraph...if you mean Quintana, Im not sure he will find whats missing real soon.He still lacks experience from big races (and generally racing) and panache. Both of those abilities are not easy to gain at all.

 

[yaco]

Posted during the Tour you need to attack Sky on the flat. Sky in effect picked 7 climbers with Thomas and Kiriyenka who play dual roles if needed on the flat. You let Sky ride on the flat at 35kms and it's no surprise Sky are strong in the mountains. Of course teams with GC contenders need to reconsider how they select teams. You can get by with 3 pure climbers with the rest of the team being routers or flat riders.

So for me there are 2 key strategies

- Less climber focused squad
- Harder racing on the flat

 

[TMP402]

I think budget caps is the way to go. There's already the principle of teams not being run for profit so why not?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Nibali has only has his 2014 TdF so point at in terms of top-level, Froome-esque climbing. I very much doubt we will see that again, unfortunately. I would love to, you have to like Nibali, he is a rider. But most likely will lack that top level climbing.

 

[portugal11]

Nibali must do his vodoo dance

 

[IndianCyclist]

Team sky has strongest team and strongest leader. A winning recipe.
First no team can chase for 3500 km.
No leader can chase for 3500 km.
Therefore make the number of riders 5.
Attack Froome in stages from far out on the penultimate climb preferably and make him chase in the valley.
Unfortunately the other leaders need an attacking mentality and not like this years GC leaders.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Posted during the Tour you need to attack Sky on the flat. Sky in effect picked 7 climbers with Thomas and Kiriyenka who play dual roles if needed on the flat. You let Sky ride on the flat at 35kms and it's no surprise Sky are strong in the mountains. Of course teams with GC contenders need to reconsider how they select teams. You can get by with 3 pure climbers with the rest of the team being routers or flat riders.

So for me there are 2 key strategies

- Less climber focused squad
- Harder racing on the flat

Above all those posts in last 2 pages this is really new and interesting idea!
It does make sense and we could see that in Ventoux stage when early in the stage three Sky climbers were dropped,only then to comeback by Froome 'pee-break'.

The problem is that on th flat mostly sprinters teams pull not GC teams.

 

[thehook]

1. Ban Power Meters, Hr Monitors, Cadence & Speed sensors.
2. No Race radio for the teams. Only radios to team cars with updates,safety concerns ahead, crash info, medical info,etc etc. Relayed and controlled by Referee.
3. Apply 1 set of rules to ALL TEAMS! Re: Ventoux stage
4. Salary Cap. Like MLB. You can go over it. If YOU choose. However you pay "Luxury Tax" which gets divided amongst teams.

IMHO

 

[Cookster15]

Waiting for Contador to find his best form again is futile. His best form was in 2011 that's 5 years ago now not going to happen in 2017 at 34 years of age. Perhaps if big mouth Tinkov had spent some more money two or three years ago replicating Sky's preparation and "marginal gains" with Contador's talent we might have had a contest. He was more interested in publicity for publicities sake than he was in winning the Tour with AC.

IMO the only way to challenge Froome is to challenge Sky. Team budget caps, ban radios and power meters, limit 7 riders per team and teams learn to replicate Sky's attention to details.

 

[Bumeington]

Be better than Froome in the mountains. Simple as that. If Froome sits behind the sky train and you sit behind Froome, and then when Froome lights it up you have more left and drop him mano-a-mano then you can win. No need to match the strength of the team if you can match the strength of the leader

 

[Poursuivant]

Why is everyone all of a sudden propositioning rule changes? Because Sky were strong this year? In 2013 day the day after Ax 3 Froome was literally on his own with OVER 100 km to go, yet no one laid a glove on him. Asking for rule changes is pathetic, Sky have a big budget but it isn't Man City to Burnley level, Sky all year are pretty much all about the Tour and don't hide it, that's why they are so strong here, they have done nothin At the Giro; and not much at the Vuelta simply because they are secondary targets.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Can't wait for Sky to exit the sponsorship, but I fear we will just have another dominant team.

 

[SeriousSam]

Wanting to take science and technology out of the sport is anachronistic and it isn't going to happen. The mighty power meter is here to stay and that's a good thing.

 

[HelloDolly]

Wanting to take science and technology out of the sport is anachronistic and it isn't going to happen. The mighty power meter is here to stay and that's a good thing.

No one is taking them out of the sport just out of the racing .could be still used in training ..and that is not anachronistic...Some science will/does stifel competetion
Self drive cars are on there way ...will it be anachronistic if Formula 1 does not include them ?

 

[ILovecycling]

Wanting to take science and technology out of the sport is anachronistic and it isn't going to happen. The mighty power meter is here to stay and that's a good thing.

I dont like most of those ideas as you.
Only one I would consider is banning race radios,which (implementing them) was the worst decision by UCI ever imo.
Of course that wouldnt have done anything with Skytrain,but this thread is not named 'how to disadvantage team sky'
IMO its silly to ban all those tech things because we have got a superior team,its just not right imo

 

[saganftw]

Wanting to take science and technology out of the sport is anachronistic and it isn't going to happen. The mighty power meter is here to stay and that's a good thing.

well when a football player is in 1v1 situation against a defender,he is not looking at the bench for a coach to tell him how to score

why should a cyclist get the info from a DS about his next action? how about the rider takes some responsibility?

this would clearly make the racing much more unpredictable,cyclists would have to god forbid think for themselves,all of a sudden you would have another layer of strategy to exploit in your favour - it expands the options of attacking

im not against having better bikes or better nutrition,but certain piece of technology is detrimental to the racing,because it turns cyclists into RC athletes

power meters are whatever,most of the riders know how they feel anyway so banning those would make a little change

 

[saganftw]

Re:

Why is everyone all of a sudden propositioning rule changes? Because Sky were strong this year? In 2013 day the day after Ax 3 Froome was literally on his own with OVER 100 km to go, yet no one laid a glove on him. Asking for rule changes is pathetic, Sky have a big budget but it isn't Man City to Burnley level, Sky all year are pretty much all about the Tour and don't hide it, that's why they are so strong here, they have done nothin At the Giro; and not much at the Vuelta simply because they are secondary targets.

very few people care about who wins the tour,as long as its exciting to watch - SKY makes the tour boring,hence they are the main villain in this but the changes are long term solution beyond any one team dominance,SKY just happened to win this year so they are a reference point by default

unless you thought that the tdf was great race in which case you have a bunch of bigger problems

 

[PremierAndrew]

Wanting to take science and technology out of the sport is anachronistic and it isn't going to happen. The mighty power meter is here to stay and that's a good thing.

I dont like most of those ideas as you.
Only one I would consider is banning race radios,which (implementing them) was the worst decision by UCI ever imo.
Of course that wouldnt have done anything with Skytrain,but this thread is not named 'how to disadvantage team sky'
IMO its silly to ban all those tech things because we have got a superior team,its just not right imo

Idk if you follow F1 but that's exactly what the FIA did to end the red bull dominance a couple of years ago, and interest in F1 certainly went up as a result

 

[Poursuivant]

Re: Re:

Why is everyone all of a sudden propositioning rule changes? Because Sky were strong this year? In 2013 day the day after Ax 3 Froome was literally on his own with OVER 100 km to go, yet no one laid a glove on him. Asking for rule changes is pathetic, Sky have a big budget but it isn't Man City to Burnley level, Sky all year are pretty much all about the Tour and don't hide it, that's why they are so strong here, they have done nothin At the Giro; and not much at the Vuelta simply because they are secondary targets.

very few people care about who wins the tour,as long as its exciting to watch - SKY makes the tour boring,hence they are the main villain in this but the changes are long term solution beyond any one team dominance,SKY just happened to win this year so they are a reference point by default

unless you thought that the tdf was great race in which case you have a bunch of bigger problems

No it was not. In fact, stage 20, I couldn't believe the complete lack of attacks. Zero. However, how is that Sky's fault? They had shown their strength all tour, but barely anyone had the balls to take it to them, it was embarrassing.

 

[cantpedal]

Re:

Why is everyone all of a sudden propositioning rule changes? Because Sky were strong this year? In 2013 day the day after Ax 3 Froome was literally on his own with OVER 100 km to go, yet no one laid a glove on him. Asking for rule changes is pathetic, Sky have a big budget but it isn't Man City to Burnley level, Sky all year are pretty much all about the Tour and don't hide it, that's why they are so strong here, they have done nothin At the Giro; and not much at the Vuelta simply because they are secondary targets.

Exactly this!

 

[cantpedal]

So sitting behind the Sky train is somehow harder than being in it?

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

So sitting behind the Sky train is somehow harder than being in it?

That's not the problem. When Froome and Sky attack, it's the same for everyone. But when someone else wants to attack, the Sky train makes it extremely hard for that attack to stick, and the rewards are minimised by the Sky train, highly discouraging attacks from anyone other than Froome over the course of a Grand Tour

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Why is everyone all of a sudden propositioning rule changes? Because Sky were strong this year? In 2013 day the day after Ax 3 Froome was literally on his own with OVER 100 km to go, yet no one laid a glove on him. Asking for rule changes is pathetic, Sky have a big budget but it isn't Man City to Burnley level, Sky all year are pretty much all about the Tour and don't hide it, that's why they are so strong here, they have done nothin At the Giro; and not much at the Vuelta simply because they are secondary targets.

Three top tens, two jerseys, teams classification & nine stage wins is a record a lot of teams would kill for, same at the Vuelta four top tens and four stage wins.

 

[robin440]

best team

 

[The Hegelian]

I think everyone's already doing precisely the right thing: just give up and relinquish the tdf. If you're a GC rider for another team - race for podium/top 10. If you're a genuine fan, just take a break in July. We all knew what was coming didn't we? All the riders knew.

Sky have it nailed, full stop.

Oleg Tinkoff approach - just wait out the era.

Just let 'em have what they exist for.