How to beat Team SKY at TdF?

[Squirbos_19]

Personally I think the only way to beat Sky/Froome is to be better than them, both individually and as a team. At the moment, even if Froome has an off day his super team is there to save the day. The only tactic I can think of is having a team with two legitimate chances to win and both working together to win not both be on the podium, but that sort of falls into having a stronger team.

 

[saganftw]

clinic stuff (which would basically solve all the problems overnight)
ban on electronics - power meters and radios
smaller teams
salary cap

 

[Fergoose]

Re:

ban on electronics - power meters and radios
smaller teams
salary cap

Those are the big three. The use of technology makes the race so painfully easy for a DS of monitor and respond to any attacks with the best tactics (rather than a fatigued rider having to make a split second decision).

The only way Sky could be beaten is if a top performer like Bardet or Quintana or Yates having a team with the same budget and the same single minded dedication to just one race. Without that it's a cake walk that stands to be repeated for as long as Sky wants to.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

These 2 guys at top shape.

They can't beat top form Froome/Sky. No one can

 

[Gigs_98]

This thread reminds me that we have still never seen the big 4 fighting against each other in top shape

And yes I think especially nibali and contador could have destroyed the train in 2014 considering that sky was also blown apart in some mountain stages last year (just to be in top shape again when froome cracked) but usually they aren't completely in invincible. However there is of course a big difference between beating sky and beating froome but a real fight just between the contenders in which froome dominates is still hundred times better than this tour.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

These 2 guys at top shape.

They can't beat top form Froome/Sky. No one can

Yea they can, nibali's numbers were insane. And Contador's numbers at the vuelta that year were really really good and of course in the tour he was better.

And if they work together, they could definitely destroy Sky, i'm sure of that.

The 2 most agressive riders of this generation beating the big monster Sky, if i ever write a story about cycling, it's this one. I hope it'll be reality but father time is ticking.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Re: Re:

ban on electronics - power meters and radios
smaller teams
salary cap

Those are the big three. The use of technology makes the race so painfully easy for a DS of monitor and respond to any attacks with the best tactics (rather than a fatigued rider having to make a split second decision).

The only way Sky could be beaten is if a top performer like Bardet or Quintana or Yates having a team with the same budget and the same single minded dedication to just one race. Without that it's a cake walk that stands to be repeated for as long as Sky wants to.

They all lost over 3 minutes on Froome in time trials.

How will ban on electronics, smaller teams and salary caps make them stop losing heavy minutes in time trials?

Wonder how would the final GC look without TT and Froome's downhill and flat attacks?

Bardet
Froome +0:01
Quintana +0:32
Yates +0:48

It's not SKY that made Froome unbeatable, it's Froome himself.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re:

ban on electronics - power meters and radios
smaller teams
salary cap

Only the third idea has any merit.

 

[Anderis]

Bring someone who can ride the whole course faster than Froome. I mean someone who can outclimb Froome and not lose much time in other terrain (TTs, echelons, downhills etc.) or someone who is able not to lose much time to Froome uphill and gain elsewhere.

It doesn't matter how strong Sky is, Froome's domestiques don't climb better than him. If you can drop Froome, you can run away from Sky train as well. At least in the final kilometers of a hard climbs.

It's as simple as that, barring luck or really poor team letting you down.

 

[red zone]

Re: Re:

ban on electronics - power meters and radios
smaller teams
salary cap

Those are the big three. The use of technology makes the race so painfully easy for a DS of monitor and respond to any attacks with the best tactics (rather than a fatigued rider having to make a split second decision).

The only way Sky could be beaten is if a top performer like Bardet or Quintana or Yates having a team with the same budget and the same single minded dedication to just one race. Without that it's a cake walk that stands to be repeated for as long as Sky wants to.

They all lost over 3 minutes on Froome in time trials.

How will ban on electronics, smaller teams and salary caps make them stop losing heavy minutes in time trials?

Wonder how would the final GC look without TT and Froome's downhill and flat attacks?

Bardet
Froome +0:01
Quintana +0:32
Yates +0:48

It's not SKY that made Froome unbeatable, it's Froome himself.

Froome was very beatable this tour even with his much superior team , he wouldn't have risked down hill attacks if he felt he was clearly better . However with Contador crashing out and Quintana off form there weren'tt any other serious challengers .

 

[capuldemetal]

ban race radios and srm's.and for god sake,do some real mountain stages.200+ km and over 2000 meters high.mountain stages these days in the tdf are pale joke .

 

[HelloDolly]

Firstly what no one should try and do is out SKY SKY. That would be even more boring and ridiculous
Teams all riding to control the race

That is what SKY have done...they have taken a sport with alot of variables that determine success and they have tried to control as many as they can in order to guarantee success

All the detractors that say they are doping are wrong and lack imagination. They don't need to dope they are doing quite well with the factors they do control

Armstrong saw a weakness in cycling and exploited it to guarantee success...EPO allowed for better oxygen to your muscles and blood bags better recovery

hell Indurain controlled the fact that if you can crush your opponents in a TT and hang with them in the Mountains and win Tours

Rather than Prudhomme missing the point and calling for 8 man teams which will make SKY stronger not weaker ASO/UCI need to counter all the issues that allow SKY control..and not just to 'manage' SKY but to ensure the sport as a whole keeps it unpredictability as science increasingly plays an emphasis

Sure Frrome is the strongest rider today but that is not always necessarily the case on the mountains..
So definiely take away power meters and any technology from a bike that allows one to control the pace

Take also race radios which allows a team to control the course ...(sure people can stand by the road but updates wont be immediate and thus counter attacks)

Make the course less controlable ...more rouler stages , better incentives for attacks for riders in GC.
Let GC score seconds in other ways than just at the line
Disencentify the concentration on the Tour by a team...maybe handicap a team wt PR, Flanders, Ardennes results at the Tour
Rather than team size look at team composition controls ..
There are lots of imaginative ways to make the Tour less controllable

 

[SeriousSam]

You can always beat Froome and Sky through circumstances. Even Froome may have a bad year eventually, or crash out as he did in 2014, or something along the lines.

If that doesn't happen, ie to reliably beat them, you need a rider who can climb and time trial like Armstrong. Al the tactics and strength of team balbla is nice and all, but the stronger rider usually wins.

 

[samhocking]

Take a national fedoration, give them €5m a year for 15 years studying human performance in track endurance events and then take what you learn and apply it to the road at Tour de France. The money was spent decades ago on winning tour. The money Sky has is required to apply that effectively and maintain it in the randomness of road cycling.

 

[HelloDolly]

P.S. I agree Froome is very beatable,,I thought he began to look a little tired in the Alps

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

P.S. I agree Froome is very beatable,,I thought he began to look a little tired in the Alps

Reading and listening to most rider interviews everyone was tired in the Alps. I think it's not off the mark to suggest Froome could have stepped up another gear had he needed to, but he wasn't ever required to push harder.

In terms of levelling the playing field, a drop to 7/8 riders per team would be a step in the right direction.

 

[HelloDolly]

Some riders actually began to get stronger in the Alps...ie Purito, Bardet and some weaker
Some riders need 3 weeks to find their mojo and others don't

And yes Froome began to look tired....But he had Poels who was flying in the Alps

 

[Netserk]

A stronger leader that doesn't crash/get ill/loses stupid time because of a puncture or similar.

 

[Savant12]

Re:

Some riders actually began to get stronger in the Alps...ie Purito, Bardet and some weaker
Some riders need 3 weeks to find their mojo and others don't

And yes Froome began to look tired....But he had Poels who was flying in the Alps

His rivals were lucky with the Ventoux moto incident. Stopped them from losing more time.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Disencentify the concentration on the Tour by a team...maybe handicap a team wt PR, Flanders, Ardeenes results at the Tour
Rather than team size look at team composition controls

ehm?

it is not doable. how can you control which riders a team can chose to ride?

I think Cofidis, as an example, would never make the Tour if they had to score points at Roubaix, Flanders, Ardennes etc

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Disencentify the concentration on the Tour by a team...maybe handicap a team wt PR, Flanders, Ardeenes results at the Tour
Rather than team size look at team composition controls

ehm?

it is not doable. how can you control which riders a team can chose to ride?

I think Cofidis, as an example, would never make the Tour if they had to score points at Roubaix, Flanders, Ardennes etc

I am doing some blue SKY thinking here but maybe Cofidis need to earn their place at the Tour ...

As fro controlloing riders ...in every fantasy team ridiers are listed a climbers, sprinters, etc....mayeb riders are categorised by this and you have to bring a sprinter and a rouler , etc....

I feel the Tour is too climber concentrated as it is,,,,why can't roulers be more of the story

My point is we require some thinking and imagination for cycling as a whole as science improves

 

[Eyeballs Out]

You can't beat them, so join them

 

[pastronef]

Re:

You can't beat them, so join them

said Rosa while signing his contract

 

[laurensde+]

Re:

These 2 guys at top shape.

For the above's more recent GT wins, the likes of Boswell, Deignan, Knees, Lopez, Viviani, Eisel, Pate, Puccio and Siutsou were riding for Sky.

Against Sky's A-team, and another year older? Good luck with that.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Step one: Be a legit competitor for the win
Step two: Don't mess up your preparation
Step three: Don't crash out
Step four: Don't lose time unnecessarily to force you to go long range
Step five: Drop Froome somewhere
Step six: Win

Well, thats right, because this way you eliminate Sky strenght. I was always thinking about that as a most possible scenario for Quintana/Contador this year but there is a one big problem with this theory...
Time trial(s)

Lets say the Challenger (with not bad tt) drops Froome somewhere around stage 10 by a minute! which is not likely (more like 30s). But then at some point there must be a TT and Froome takes that time back.
Only way this can work is if Tour 2017 has only 1 HILLY tt...and maybe not even then