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How to Eliminate Another Contador Schleck One.Two

Jun 23, 2010
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Wiggins and Vandavelde didn't do it '09. Gesink and Menchov didn't do it 2010. Levi, Lance and Kloden neither. Kreuzinger/Basso, Roche or Gadret. Luis-Leon Sanchez and Plaza Molina. None would sacrifice their postions on the standings to open the race. i.e Levi attack forcing Astanna/Saxo. Nor did Basso try to set up Kreuzinger or vice-a-versa. Wiggins and Vandevelde '09 hugged each other untill the crash. Never attempting to take a 'chance'. I hope Sastre and Menchov read this and understand that one of them needs to put their overall on the line for their team to win. This 2 leaders on a team holding hands approach is sad and plays into the hands of Contador and Schleck. C'mon guys take the chance!!
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Usually by being no threat to the GC, though sometimes by Clinic matters.
Well, the answer I was looking for was, "by going early and making a gap before the final climb", which you must admit suits this thread a bit better.

Seriously though, no one can mark all the attacks if everyone decides to attack early.
 
May 24, 2010
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I know he was no threat to the GC....

I know Ryder Hesjedal was no threat to the gc over all but he showed guts and attacked more that once.

I agree that if the attacks come hard and fast from all angles that would cause the cracks to form in the armour.
 
You've got to take their legs before they reach the mountains by attacking relentlessly in the flats. The problem with that plan is that your climbers have to follow the same attacks.

The climber who gets to the final mountain with the most legs remaining wins. The problem for everybody else is that AC and AS started out with way more legs than anybody else.
 
Jun 23, 2010
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erader said:
simple: they're not.

erader

One thing about LeTour is unpredictabilty. I mean if you know they're gonna win, why watch? Remember chaingate? Or stage 3 crash. Ullrich bonk on Galiber. Indurain crack at LesArcs etc etc???
 
boardhanger said:
One thing about LeTour is unpredictabilty.

I think LA's wins were very predictable (after 2000 at least) so were Indurain's and especially the last 2 won by Contador. The unpredictability can be restored once the anti-doping heat is on.
 
Jun 23, 2010
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As my oringinal meaning was why hasn't these teams from Wiggo/Vandevelde to Basso/Kreuzinger et al not attempted the one two move??? Why go to LeTour with 2 leaders who obviously can't mano a mano Contador solo. Why take 2 leaders and not use the 2 leader attack counter attack move?????
 
May 27, 2010
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boardhanger said:
As my oringinal meaning was why hasn't these teams from Wiggo/Vandevelde to Basso/Kreuzinger et al not attempted the one two move??? Why go to LeTour with 2 leaders who obviously can't mano a mano Contador solo. Why take 2 leaders and not use the 2 leader attack counter attack move?????

because no one else is strong enough to stay with Schleck and Contador. They can attack on the mountains all the want but we all saw from this year that when Schleck and Contador open up no one can go with them.

Why not attack on the flat?? Well thats why riders have a team, if a GC rider attacks constantly on the flat they will constantly be chased by their rivals team and then have no gas on the climb.

Well all saw what happened with Evans last year when he tried to go in the early move. It didn't succeed because Astana chased him straight away. We also saw Sastre go on the early attack on stage 19 this year and then when he was caught he had no legs.

They dont attack or go one - two because they just arent strong enough. Its as simple as that.
 
Jun 23, 2010
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woodie said:
because no one else is strong enough to stay with Schleck and Contador. They can attack on the mountains all the want but we all saw from this year that when Schleck and Contador open up no one can go with them.

Why not attack on the flat?? Well thats why riders have a team, if a GC rider attacks constantly on the flat they will constantly be chased by their rivals team and then have no gas on the climb.

Well all saw what happened with Evans last year when he tried to go in the early move. It didn't succeed because Astana chased him straight away. We also saw Sastre go on the early attack on stage 19 this year and then when he was caught he had no legs.

They dont attack or go one - two because they just arent strong enough. Its as simple as that.

That leaves the other leader of the 2 leader teams to attack again. With a complete fresh team to help! If one or two leaders get away in a break which needs to be chased killing Contador/Schlecks team. Do this consistenly surely a ***** will appear. It only takes that one daythroughout the 3weeeks when the break goes and Contador/Schleck teams can't react, again. Leaving the leader stranded. Thats the point of bringing two GC contender leaders to a tour on same team. At least attempt it? My point being it hasn't been attempted.
 
May 27, 2010
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boardhanger said:
That leaves the other leader of the 2 leader teams to attack again. With a complete fresh team to help! If one or two leaders get away in a break which needs to be chased killing Contador/Schlecks team. Do this consistenly surely a ***** will appear. It only takes that one daythroughout the 3weeeks when the break goes and Contador/Schleck teams can't react, again. Leaving the leader stranded. Thats the point of bringing two GC contender leaders to a tour on same team.

All Contador and Schlecks teams need to do is ride tempo, let the leader dangle in the break and then sweep them up on the climb. Plus, whats stopping their teams banding together to cover any threats then you have sixteen guys to work, not just eight (or seven in Schlecks case). If a team mate of a GC rider attacks good on them, but they aren't a threat to GC so no big deal.

How is someone going to beat these two? Train harder and hope for some luck. the greatest tactics in the world a useless if you dont have the legs.

I can see your point about the one two but from what was seen this year no one is strong enough to actually get away from these two.
 
Jun 23, 2010
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woodie said:
All Contador and Schlecks teams need to do is ride tempo, let the leader dangle in the break and then sweep them up on the climb. Plus, whats stopping their teams banding together to cover any threats then you have sixteen guys to work, not just eight (or seven in Schlecks case). If a team mate of a GC rider attacks good on them, but they aren't a threat to GC so no big deal.

How is someone going to beat these two? Train harder and hope for some luck. the greatest tactics in the world a useless if you dont have the legs.

I can see your point about the one two but from what was seen this year no one is strong enough to actually get away from these two.

I understand what you are saying and get it. Yet say a leader was 40 seconds up the road on that climb and 'chaingate' happened there you go. He who dares....wins. But no we had 2 leaders on the same team riding side by side. Sad.
 
Jan 19, 2010
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Use the Pantani 2000 approach, have a team with a couple of strong riders. Have one or more attack from way out to force the Sunguard/Schleck teams to fall apart so that Schlecklet and AC have to go get them from the start. Then quit the race after you put the team leaders in trouble :)
 
Jun 15, 2010
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Riding for placings

I see a problem that when someone from 5/6 on GC attacks, He gets chased down by 3/4 they dont force Contador/Schleck to do all the chasing.Only Contador is totally focused on 1st
 
Jun 23, 2010
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simo1733 said:
I see a problem that when someone from 5/6 on GC attacks, He gets chased down by 3/4 they dont force Contador/Schleck to do all the chasing.Only Contador is totally focused on 1st

This can be sorted with behind the scenes talks. It does happen you know! ;)
 
Jul 18, 2010
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boardhanger said:
As my oringinal meaning was why hasn't these teams from Wiggo/Vandevelde to Basso/Kreuzinger et al not attempted the one two move??? Why go to LeTour with 2 leaders who obviously can't mano a mano Contador solo. Why take 2 leaders and not use the 2 leader attack counter attack move?????

There has been a precedent set that virtually every team with gc aspirations has decided to follow. Take no risks, hope for some mechanical/accidental/physical malady to happen to the favorites, to move up in the standings. Attacking on the penultimate climb is looked at as being too risky for the attacking rider. If the attack fails, they will be swept up and spit out the back, losing time and free-falling in the standings. It appears that no one of these duo's wants to make the sacrifice for the other. Also part of it is that Astana and Saxo both set high tempos to discourage anyone from attacking.

Basso never had the legs after the Giro. Kreuziger was simply hanging on. Leipheimer, Kloden and Armstrong simply didn't have it but wouldn't have taken the risks early in a stage anyway since its the Bruyneel/Armstrong templet that most gc teams are following. Garmin lost their 1-2 when VDV crashed out.

I think that they all live in fear of expending energy that they will need later in the stage and/or in later stages. Attack and Contador and Schleck counter, drop you and your Tour is done. The standard strategy is to hang on for as long as you can and hope someone else has a bad day.
 
Maybe Basso can challenge the top two in 2011 if he skips the Giro and takes this years Giro form to the Tour? He is probably the only guy I can think of (also because he has a strong climbing team) who has a chance.

In regards to attacking early in stages it just never really works out for anyone. But everyone worked against Contador and Schleck's teams on a flat stage than maybe some time could be gained. A good example of this possibility was the stage to Mende this year when a group of 16 or so got away. The problem was that the strong 4 split the bunch and understandably couldn't hold off the peleton. Otherwise they could have gained a couple of minutes.
 

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