I believe Lance, not Floyd...here's why.

[TShame]

Thanks. It is funny how those who agree with me seem to speak and think logically, while those who disagree sound like children, some just want to believe Lance is guilty or everyone is guilty.

If everyone is guilty, then Landis deserves his 'win' back.

Also, just because there is an "investigation", how could that possibly "prove" there is guilt? Dumb conclusion (from page 1 )

As to the administrator, this is new. The Landis interview is new. Even M. Bogerd agrees with me that these are lies, quoted today. If you are an administrator, we don't need your opinion. Delete a few of the trolls here, but let us have our own discussions without some 'supervisor' thinking he knows better than all of us. You should be fired for threatening a poster who sees Landis is untrustworthy.

 

[TShame]

Floyd wrote some emails which have been posted on the internet saying he doped and he thinks Lance doped, but has never seem him actually dope.

Logic has it, the written word is more reliable than the internet, thus Lance has never doped.
.........................................................................................................

Thanks, I forgot all about that. Suddenly, when Landis is out of money, he remembers watching Lance and the whole team doping it up after stages.

Landis is a bad liar.

Thanks for so many comments. Sorry about the Lance haters. I am not one of his fans, but I think it is unfair of journalists to print unsubstantiated claims that defy logic and known human patterns.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks. It is funny how those who agree with me seem to speak and think logically, while those who disagree sound like children, some just want to believe Lance is guilty or everyone is guilty.

If everyone is guilty, then Landis deserves his 'win' back.

Also, just because there is an "investigation", how could that possibly "prove" there is guilt? Dumb conclusion (from page 1 )

As to the administrator, this is new. The Landis interview is new. Even M. Bogerd agrees with me that these are lies, quoted today. If you are an administrator, we don't need your opinion. Delete a few of the trolls here, but let us have our own discussions without some 'supervisor' thinking he knows better than all of us. You should be fired for threatening a poster who sees Landis is untrustworthy.

So why not come up with some replies to my post on page one. I was one of the first to reply to you, I spoke perfectly logically, yet you do not address any of the points I have made. You will notice as well that I did not claim that an investigation proves guilt, but the fact the investigation continues after a year, after having had numerous people testify in front of a grand jury.. If all those people said floyd was lying do you think the investigation would really be continuing. No. But of course you chose not to address that.

This sadly is the typical approach of someone who knows he is wrong. start a thread, make statements, and ignore responses instead just making more pointless statements.

You started the thread, so enter conversation and debate with those of us who have made credible counter arguments. If not, and you continue just making unprovable statements then you to are contributing the threads inevitable demise.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually, forget it. Mods.. This guy has clearly started the thread with no intention of entering into discussion about his opinions. Just close it already.

 

[Anonymous]

If everyone is guilty, then Landis deserves his 'win' back.

yes, he does. and not in quotes.

 

[Barrus]

Actually, forget it. Mods.. This guy has clearly started the thread with no intention of entering into discussion about his opinions. Just close it already.

I'm first giving him a chance to explain his attacks on the moderators, completely unwarranted and over the top. I have done so by pm, but shall do so in this thread as well. As the manner in which he speaks against the Mods in general in this thread and Alpe in particular in this thread would be reason enough for a ban. Especially seeing as no measure has been taken against him at all and that this is not the correct place to air his grievances if he had legitimate grievances

 

[Anonymous]

Logic has it, the written word is more reliable than the internet, thus Lance has never doped.

What are you wittering about. If Landis writes it in an email, it is the written word. If Landis speaks to a reporter, the reporter records the conversation, and then transcribes it its the written word. It doesnt matter wether it gets put on the internet, in a newspaper, tatooed to a fat ladys behind, or written up by benedictine monks, its still the written word.

Do you want everything Floyd or anyone else says written on parchment with a quill and ink and then scanned and published on scribd?

The written word is neither more or less reliable than the internet. The written word is neither more or less reliable than the spoken word. It all depends on who it is doing the speaking/writing. I beleive that history will prove that Floyds written word is more reliable than Armstrongs spoken word.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Floyd sometimes becomes a loose cannon, as indicated in this CN article about Boogerd's rebuttal.
boogerd-denies-landis-doping-allegations
When Floyd does that, IMO he becomes less credible because it seems he's got so much anger or hate that he just wants to take out anyone and everyone. He needs to be smarter about the audience he chooses to make these statements.

 

[Archibald]

All I want for Christmas is hookers and blow.

Wonderlance style... no ordinary hookers or blow...

 

[Archibald]

Please excuse the OT post I'm about to make, but how many of you knew (because I didn't) that the place actually exists?

raises hand...

I believe Lance when he says he's "clean" - there's proof of him taking a shower...

 

[Ferminal]

Floyd wrote some emails which have been posted on the internet saying he doped and he thinks Lance doped, but has never seem him actually dope.

Logic has it, the written word is more reliable than the internet, thus Lance has never doped.
.........................................................................................................

Thanks, I forgot all about that. Suddenly, when Landis is out of money, he remembers watching Lance and the whole team doping it up after stages.

Landis is a bad liar.

Thanks for so many comments. Sorry about the Lance haters. I am not one of his fans, but I think it is unfair of journalists to print unsubstantiated claims that defy logic and known human patterns.

But you're not calling just Floyd a liar.

You're calling -

Betsy, Mike, Frankie, Swart, LeMond, Floyd, Kimmage, Walsh, L'Equipe, Ashenden etc etc all liars.

Why should a person believe Lance over ALL of these people? What are the special traits of his highness that make him so genuine? You can't just say Floyd is a liar, you need to say that anyone who has ever spoken out against Lance is a liar.

I realise you're not here to respond to specific posts, but I will give it one more shot, in any case Polish will take me up on my offer.

 

[sniper]

Here is someone who believes Landis:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/simeoni-welcomes-landis-account-of-2004-tour-de-france

 

[Race Radio]

It appears the OP is unaware that 4 additional USPS riders have confirmed to the Feds that there was doping on the team.

When it comes out that Hincapie has confirmed landis' account how fast will the OP put the George on the rapidly growing "Bitter" list?

 

[sniper]

Was Simeoni also bitter?

“I always said that doping was generalized and you could say even democratic up to the time when they developed a test for EPO, then it became elitist. You needed cutting-edge methods to get around the tests from that point on – methods that often only the big riders and teams could access or afford. If Landis is saying that corruption was another way around the tests, I can’t confirm it because I was in small teams and had no exposure to that, but I can believe it, with all of the economic interests at play. As I said before, I’m very curious to see what the US government and Jeff Novitzky uncover in their investigation…”

Simeoni added finally that he has never been contacted by Novitzky within the scope of the federal investigation.

 

[Mellow Velo]

What are you wittering about. If Landis writes it in an email, it is the written word. If Landis speaks to a reporter, the reporter records the conversation, and then transcribes it its the written word. It doesnt matter wether it gets put on the internet, in a newspaper, tatooed to a fat ladys behind, or written up by benedictine monks, its still the written word.

Do you want everything Floyd or anyone else says written on parchment with a quill and ink and then scanned and published on scribd?

The written word is neither more or less reliable than the internet. The written word is neither more or less reliable than the spoken word. It all depends on who it is doing the speaking/writing. I beleive that history will prove that Floyds written word is more reliable than Armstrongs spoken word.

Clearly Mr Shame thinks that to get words published in a book, said words have to pass the scrutiny of the publisher's proof reader.
Publisher's have no interest in making financial gain, rather, they have a built in, verbal polygraph that can detect even the merest hint of a lie.

Hence, all books are the truth..................except for works of fiction.
Or in the case of Lance, science fiction.

Really, there are almost 60 replies to what is essentially a non-argument.
Rather, it is an excuse for an attack on the forum's moderation for not being pro-Lance, but pro-evidence.

 

[TShame]

"you chose not to address that."

I did address that if you look just above your post, you will see my response. Just because there is an investigation does not prove anything. They are looking into charges made. There has been no evidence uncovered in a year?!!!! Hmmm, that sounds like they are finding NOTHING. Maybe they will uncover something. But to conclude that there is guilt because they have not concluded their investigation is ludicrous. You seem to believe what you want to believe rather than view things logically. Don't forget they are getting paid to conduct an investigation, so there is no reason to conclude it on any sort of time schedule. It is similar to a lot of highway projects. Get as much for yourself as possible. And don't expect a response to every post, as if you are some high authority on the subject.

 

[Ferminal]

Don't forget they are getting paid to conduct an investigation, so there is no reason to conclude it on any sort of time schedule. It is similar to a lot of highway projects. Get as much for yourself as possible. And don't expect a response to every post, as if you are some high authority on the subject.

That's a new one, even Fabiani would be impressed... better than bad eggs causing Salmonella.

 

[TShame]

#62
You have put my name as the author of a quote from Teamskyfan.
That was not my quote.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Here is someone who believes Landis:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/simeoni-welcomes-landis-account-of-2004-tour-de-france

Oh dear. He was missing in the band/orchestra.
Why wasn't that noticed earlier ?

I hope this clown will make it to the news by really achieving something instead of his compassionate tour.

These usual suspects should really form a band.

The Armstrongjäger

 

[flyor64]

snipped...it is similar to a lot of highway projects. Get as much for yourself as possible...

That's a new one, even Fabiani would be impressed... better than bad eggs causing Salmonella.

Ahh Ferminal, you beat me to it!!!

Comparing the investigation to a highway project...

Well played sir

 

[flyor64]

Outside of some hockey pics, quite possibly the best mullet/moustache combo ever shown in a picture!

But seriously 'stoned, please do tell what does a German yodling quintet have to do with it???

Are they hunting Armstrong? Or Simeoni?

Ya lost me?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

"you chose not to address that."

I did address that if you look just above your post, you will see my response. Just because there is an investigation does not prove anything. They are looking into charges made. There has been no evidence uncovered in a year?!!!! Hmmm, that sounds like they are finding NOTHING. Maybe they will uncover something. But to conclude that there is guilt because they have not concluded their investigation is ludicrous. You seem to believe what you want to believe rather than view things logically. Don't forget they are getting paid to conduct an investigation, so there is no reason to conclude it on any sort of time schedule. It is similar to a lot of highway projects. Get as much for yourself as possible. And don't expect a response to every post, as if you are some high authority on the subject.

Your view has changed somewhat since your OP. Now you mention evidence instead of logic.
Have you any evidence that the FDA are not still collecting evidence?
This is a long investigation simply because there is lot of material to go through - from the subpoenas of Lim, Hincapie, Livingston, McIlvain etc, documents seized from Trek, Nike, LeMond (70,000 pages alone) etc.

How long was the BALCO investigation? This is not being done by McDonald's.

To your original points in your OP:
You ask who else who "confessed" mentioned other doping in front of them? Manzano is one - and if you had read Willy Voets book you simply would never have made that statement - what part of 'systematic team doping' did you miss?

 

[Anonymous]

"you chose not to address that."

I did address that if you look just above your post, you will see my response. Just because there is an investigation does not prove anything. They are looking into charges made. There has been no evidence uncovered in a year?!!!! Hmmm, that sounds like they are finding NOTHING. Maybe they will uncover something. But to conclude that there is guilt because they have not concluded their investigation is ludicrous. You seem to believe what you want to believe rather than view things logically. Don't forget they are getting paid to conduct an investigation, so there is no reason to conclude it on any sort of time schedule. It is similar to a lot of highway projects. Get as much for yourself as possible. And don't expect a response to every post, as if you are some high authority on the subject.

I am viewing things locically. If the feds investigated the allegations and found nothing, the investigation would have been dropped long ago. If each of the grand jury witnesses refuted floyds claims and said that there was no doping on postal, the investigation would have been dropped long ago. if you really beleive that the reason the investigation is still ongoing after nearly a year is because they have found no evidence to back up floyds claims then you are as far removed from logical thought as it is possible to be. AS for suggesting its similar to a highway project, thats just insane. Novitzky doesnt give a monkeys about the money, its his reputation hes interested in, and his reputation will be further enhanced when lance is indicted.

Im having no further part in this. You clearly have your point of view and are not prepared to discuss alternate opinions. Its like having a conversation with a three year old. You are clearly here to make points without rationale, ignore constructive replies and bait the moderators with baseless accusations. This thread is going nowhere

 

[Barrus]

Tshame explain yourself as I requested through pm and here in this topic or be permanently banned. I tried it nice, but you seem to ignore that, had you not ignored me your punishment would have been much less severe, even if you did not have an explanation

 

[Cobblestoned]

Outside of some hockey pics, quite possibly the best mullet/moustache combo ever shown in a picture!

But seriously 'stoned, please do tell what does a German yodling quintet have to do with it???

Are they hunting Armstrong? Or Simeoni?

Ya lost me?

Standing left: Paul Kimmage
Standing middle:Christophe Bassons
Standing right: Floyd Landis
Sitting left: Flippo Simeoni
Sitting right: Greg Lemond

Betsy didn't make it to the band and Frankie was loyal to her.

And they are jodling:
Solo jodler
The Armstrong
In love with Lance
Lance doesn't like to sleep without jodling
In the morning when Lance is laughing

Now you know what i mean ?