I don't think Taylor Phinney needs a Clinic thread

[Granville57]

Don't know how much of a factor good genes are. Axel had the best, and he doped and was still an average pro. However, I think Phinney is cleaner.

They count for plenty. It's all about genetics when in comes to pro cycling. Axel only one side to pull from though. BOTH of Phinney's parents were exceptional cyclists.

Mom & Dad > just Dad (no matter who that Dad is).

 

[Granville57]

if cycling is gonna change, it won't happen because of individuals like Phinney, i'm afraid.

Not sure I follow that line of reasoning. I would think that the only way it could change is through people exactly like Phinney.

Naturally gifted.
Openly vocal against doping.
No suspicious performances.

 

[Granville57]

All that being said...

What does give me pause is that Phinney's stage win at the ToC fit the script perfectly.

A daring breakaway.
Solo win in dramatic fashion.
One of the potentially biggest future stars of American cycling wins on home soil.

Everyone is happy. Everyone.
Sponsors.
Race organizers/promoters.
American media.
Fans.

It couldn't have been scripted better, could it?

That's what gives me pause.

 

[Scott SoCal]

All that being said...

What does give me pause is that Phinney's stage win at the ToC fit the script perfectly.

A daring breakaway.
Solo win in dramatic fashion.
One of the potentially biggest future stars of American cycling wins on home soil.

Everyone is happy. Everyone.
Sponsors.
Race organizers/promoters.
American media.
Fans.

It couldn't have been scripted better, could it?

That's what gives me pause.

Well, he knows the area very well, he's descended San Marcos pass dozens of times, he's one of the finest TT'ers going, confusion in the group as they didn't know who was out front until around the 12km to go mark and then look at the quality chasing him (or lack of).

I think you would have a worry had he taken enough time to lock down the GC or something like that.

 

[Granville57]

Well, he knows the area very well, he's descended San Marcos pass dozens of times, he's one of the finest TT'ers going, confusion in the group as they didn't know who was out front until around the 12km to go mark and then look at the quality chasing him (or lack of).

I think you would have a worry had he taken enough time to lock down the GC or something like that.

I would not disagree with any of that.

And no disrespect to Lucas Euser, but him being able to briefly pull away from the chase teams is also an indication of the collective power of that group (or lack thereof).

And Phinney's form when he hit the flats was textbook efficiency. You'd be hard pressed to find a better example of how to "ride for the win" than that.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I don't think he's doped, I just think he's very stupid.

For example, sure his defense of Armstrong way beyond what most other people thought plausible was pathetic, but I chalk it up to just being that incredibly thick, not omertá

 

[Ventoux Boar]

Skybots throwing sh!t like monkeys...who'd have thought?

Are you for real?

Armstrong connections? Check
Class A doping connections in team management? Check

That's before just thrashing a guy who'd demonstrated his return to high octane preparation on the previous day's drag.

Do you need for a positive test for a thread if you have a US passport?

 

[DirtyWorks]

I think you would have a worry had he taken enough time to lock down the GC or something like that.

Agree. It was a scant few seconds at the line. The heat had to be incredible before making it to the coastal side, so a tough day for the whole field.

These lower-ranked races often have podiums with a bias for the domestic talent for many reasons.

 

[TailWindHome]

“A year ago I couldn’t have dreamed that I would one day belong to Lance Armstrong’s inner circle,” said 18-year-old Phinney


Arf!

 

[DirtyWorks]

Are you for real?

Armstrong connections? Check
Class A doping connections in team management? Check

That's before just thrashing a guy who'd demonstrated his return to high octane preparation on the previous day's drag.

Do you need for a positive test for a thread if you have a US passport?

Well, Armstrong, (really Thom Wiesel) is the simplest gateway to the WT through the U.S. So, at some point, there's likely an association for a hungry continental elite. Hincapie's running a dev team too. So, plenty of dopers with money to fund their hobby.

Also, when Mini Phinney signed with BMC, apparently Wonderboy took offense to this. Not sure Mini Phinney was ever two-speeds.



Let's be fair to the U.S. scene, Frankie's running a team too, and he's probably not the only one trying to do the right thing. And we know there are some clean guys racing in the U.S. But, it's a lower tier than Mini Phinney.

 

[red_flanders]

Are you for real?

Armstrong connections? Check
Class A doping connections in team management? Check

That's before just thrashing a guy who'd demonstrated his return to high octane preparation on the previous day's drag.

Do you need for a positive test for a thread if you have a US passport?

If you have some evidence that the comments are nationalistic, out with it. Otherwise, leave that crap elsewhere.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

snipped...

It couldn't have been scripted better, could it?

That's what gives me pause.

Very risky script, wouldn't have passed my desk. This model is much better:

6,5 w/kg for 40 minutes. Guaranteed to yield the required result.

 

[blackcat]

They count for plenty. It's all about genetics when in comes to pro cycling. Axel only one side to pull from though. BOTH of Phinney's parents were exceptional cyclists.

Mom & Dad > just Dad (no matter who that Dad is).

unlesss, both his parnets were exceptional cylists with great genetics who ALSO doped.

having exceptional genetics = not doping FALSE dichotomy

they may have both doped to gold medals? they may not have too?

Phinney may be off the bell curve and standard deviations from the peleton mean, but does this axiomatically equate to not doping? nope, nope, no siree

 

[DirtyWorks]

“A year ago I couldn’t have dreamed that I would one day belong to Lance Armstrong’s inner circle,” said 18-year-old Phinney


Arf!

Sigh....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/phinney-explains-decision-to-sign-with-bmc-racing-team

Reveals strained relationship with Lance Armstrong

There's no question, the minute an athlete gets to the world tour, he's working for and working with people with doping pasts. Per my last post, even at continental development level things aren't ideal. I'm not sure how this time, it is reason to condemn Mini Phinney.

Again, I've not seen him go at two speeds, but I don't follow along so closely.

 

[blackcat]

Well, Armstrong, (really Thom Wiesel) is the simplest gateway to the WT through the U.S. So, at some point, there's likely an association for a hungry continental elite. Hincapie's running a dev team too. So, plenty of dopers with money to fund their hobby.

Also, when Mini Phinney signed with BMC, apparently Wonderboy took offense to this. Not sure Mini Phinney was ever two-speeds.



Let's be fair to the U.S. scene, Frankie's running a team too, and he's probably not the only one trying to do the right thing. And we know there are some clean guys racing in the U.S. But, it's a lower tier than Mini Phinney.

snip this all.

basically, you wish to say
"i have projected all those values on a scion of american bike racing history and i strenuously wish him not to be doping but in all realism, i dont know anything and i have no idea about TP the person, but what i do know is the peleton is dirty dirty and results are nigh impossible to come across and i am really supressing disbelief"

 

[blackcat]

They count for plenty. It's all about genetics when in comes to pro cycling. Axel only one side to pull from though. BOTH of Phinney's parents were exceptional cyclists.

Mom & Dad > just Dad (no matter who that Dad is).

what about all the cyclists who do not have pros who were parents or parents who were pros?

what about the scions of bobby fischer?

 

[TailWindHome]

Sigh....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/phinney-explains-decision-to-sign-with-bmc-racing-team

Reveals strained relationship with Lance Armstrong

There's no question, the minute an athlete gets to the world tour, he's working for and working with people with doping pasts. Per my last post, even at continental development level things aren't ideal. I'm not sure how this time, it is reason to condemn Mini Phinney.

Again, I've not seen him go at two speeds, but I don't follow along so closely.

I'm not sure that article helps bolster Phinney's credentials.


Jim Ochowicz flew out to Boulder to meet with me. He's a close family friend and has been around my life since I can remember and if we were ever going to entertain any kind of offer it was going to be from him

I stayed with George at his house and just inside, for me it felt like that right choice.

What is it about these dopers he admires so much?

 

[Scott SoCal]

Are you for real?

Armstrong connections? Check
Class A doping connections in team management? Check

That's before just thrashing a guy who'd demonstrated his return to high octane preparation on the previous day's drag.

Do you need for a positive test for a thread if you have a US passport?

It is pro cycling so anything is possible.

Maybe you could solidify your argument by detailing all the Phinney performances that you consider not normal.

How about just one?

 

[Afrank]

“A year ago I couldn’t have dreamed that I would one day belong to Lance Armstrong’s inner circle,” said 18-year-old Phinney


Arf!

A few points on his comment
-He's 18
-Kids are dumb
-He's just trying to break into the pro cycling ranks (would he have been able to as easily if he had come out and blasted Armstrong and other riders of that era)
-He was being given a very good opportunity to ride on a strong U23 team, he has to say this stuff he doesn't want to lose that opportunity (PR).

 

[blackcat]

they all dope, how about you just leave all value judgements at the door, so this comment is not seen as a character assassination nor defamation.

i dont know Taylor Phinney. But I know pro cycling. And the entire peloton cannot be of character akin to Armstrong

 

[gooner]

Alex Dowsett has connections to Lance and we just seen him attacking tramadol use and the pill culture in the sport. It's more or less the same with Phinney.

These guys were young naive lads who probably idolised him over the years and defended him as a result. What's more important is that it now looks like they have learned from it and moved on.

Phinney riding for Och, Rihs and when Lelangue doesn't help now but what team could he have gone to that would have been satisfactory for people here? JV has said on the forum that he wouldn't have the budget to tempt him.

BTW I like the guy and I'm inclined to believe in him.

 

[blackcat]

Alex Dowsett has connections to Lance and we just seen him attacking tramadol use and the pill culture in the sport. It's more or less the same with Phinney.

just cos he says this $hit means jack. remember Armstrong buying sismex machines for the UCI. Remember all the other riders motherhood statements and platitudes on doping?

 

[Scott SoCal]

I'm not sure that article helps bolster Phinney's credentials.


Jim Ochowicz flew out to Boulder to meet with me. He's a close family friend and has been around my life since I can remember and if we were ever going to entertain any kind of offer it was going to be from him

I stayed with George at his house and just inside, for me it felt like that right choice.

What is it about these dopers he admires so much?

?

I admire Merckx. Thought Indurain was a beast. I loved the way Museeuw won. Tchmil was an animal. VDB too.

As a very young pro who may or may not have know what was actually going on... who should he have admired? Bassons? Is that realistic?

Who should he admire now? Froome? Cancellara? Can he be sure they are different than Hincapie?

Of course, maybe they are all dopers.

 

[blackcat]

?

I admire Merckx. Thought Indurain was a beast. I loved the way Museeuw won. Tchmil was an animal. VDB too.

As a very young pro who may or may not have know what was actually going on... who should he have admired? Bassons? Is that realistic?

Who should he admire now? Froome? Cancellara? Can he be sure they are different than Hincapie?

Of course, maybe they are all dopers.

no maybes about it

 

[Scott SoCal]

no maybes about it

Not buying it.