I don't think Taylor Phinney needs a Clinic thread

[King Boonen]

This thread is all kinds of awesome.

 

[DirtyWorks]

It is pro cycling so anything is possible.

Maybe you could solidify your argument by detailing all the Phinney performances that you consider not normal.

How about just one?

Agree.

Blackcat, I don't agree with your summary regarding my opinion. Specifically:

-I observe that he isn't riding two-speeds. For example, he's not on the Sky weightloss/peak power for months program. And maybe that's wrong. Per Scott SoCal, show me something. I'm open to the idea.

-By your logic, simple geographic association leads to the conclusion that all American elites are doping. And we know there are *some* clean elite riders in every country, not just the U.S.

Specifically, if any male is getting under-23 results like Mini Phinney, he *will* work with people with a doping past. The next tier of elite development for most in the U.S. is accepting resources from crooks like Och, Wiesel, Knaggs and perhaps Hincapie at a lower level. It's not some overwhelming point of fact as clean and doped athletes are in the same pool of elite talent.

Finally, in the U.S., Frankie is running a team and somehow I doubt he's doing the "Kids, there is a time and place for everything and now is not the time or place to dope. Under-23 elite events is the time and place to dope."

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Are you for real?

Armstrong connections? Check
Class A doping connections in team management? Check

That's before just thrashing a guy who'd demonstrated his return to high octane preparation on the previous day's drag.

Do you need for a positive test for a thread if you have a US passport?

Skybot throwing sh!t like a monkey again. Check.

Next time one of the British wonders gets out of breath, give me a call.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Agree.

Blackcat, I don't agree with your summary regarding my opinion. Specifically:

-I observe that he isn't riding two-speeds. For example, he's not on the Sky weightloss/peak power for months program. And maybe that's wrong. Per Scott SoCal, show me something. I'm open to the idea.

-By your logic, simple geographic association leads to the conclusion that all American elites are doping. And we know there are *some* clean elite riders in every country, not just the U.S.

Specifically, if any male is getting under-23 results like Mini Phinney, he *will* work with people with a doping past. The next tier of elite development for most in the U.S. is accepting resources from crooks like Och, Wiesel, Knaggs and perhaps Hincapie at a lower level. It's not some overwhelming point of fact as clean and doped athletes are in the same pool of elite talent.

Finally, in the U.S., Frankie is running a team and somehow I doubt he's doing the "Kids, there is a time and place for everything and now is not the time or place to dope. Under-23 elite events is the time and place to dope."

Add Axel to that.

 

[blackcat]

no one buys my opinion

gues what

im not sellin

 

[blackcat]

 

[Race Radio]

“A year ago I couldn’t have dreamed that I would one day belong to Lance Armstrong’s inner circle,” said 18-year-old Phinney


Arf!

18 year olds are usually known for their wise, insightful, quotes?

 

[red_flanders]

18 year olds are usually known for their wise, insightful, quotes?

No, and point well taken. I think in the case of Phinney though, he has 2 parents in the know. Hard to imagine they didn't know all that needed to be known about Armstrong.

But yeah, he was a kid.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Very risky script, wouldn't have passed my desk. This model is much better:

6,5 w/kg for 40 minutes. Guaranteed to yield the required result.

From the non testing ToC... how is it this year BTW?

 

[Catwhoorg]

They count for plenty. It's all about genetics when in comes to pro cycling. Axel only one side to pull from though. BOTH of Phinney's parents were exceptional cyclists.

Mom & Dad > just Dad (no matter who that Dad is).

Jason Kenny + Laura Trott.

Marginal (genetic) gains for the next generation.

 

[sniper]

Not sure I follow that line of reasoning. I would think that the only way it could change is through people exactly like Phinney.

Naturally gifted.
Openly vocal against doping.
No suspicious performances.

that's basically JV's idea (well he doesn't own the idea of course) of cycling changing from the inside, bottom up, through individuals like JV himself and other clean crusaders (e.g. Phinney, if we're lucky).
I'm afraid I don't believe in that. Cheating is too easy and the rewards are too big. Well you know the drill.
If Phinney is doing it on bread and water, deep respect, but then he'd better count with the fact that he's gonna be beaten most of the time by guys doing it on bread and juice.

 

[gooner]

just cos he says this $hit means jack. remember Armstrong buying sismex machines for the UCI. Remember all the other riders motherhood statements and platitudes on doping?

What makes you think they are talking ****? Aren't both riders's comments to be welcomed?

I don't think Dowsett is talking nonsense on this, he seems pretty honest on the topic and even admits he has used tramadol once while training. Phinney wasn't even asked about any of this but still felt the need to tweet about the subject and did it on his own initiative.

All this criticism of these guys for their past link to Lance is amazing as if none of us here weren't once young and naive in our opinions and support of something. I was in my mid-teens watching Lance everyday in the 99 Tour and jumped on the bandwagon at the time. That shouldn't make my opinions any worse or better off today because of that back then.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

They count for plenty. It's all about genetics when in comes to pro cycling. Axel only one side to pull from though. BOTH of Phinney's parents were exceptional cyclists.

Mom & Dad > just Dad (no matter who that Dad is).

mum > dad. mitochondria comes from your mum

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Like father like son, or is that too cryptic?

 

[Benotti69]

no maybes about it

Bought the t-shirt in the 90s

 

[King Boonen]

mum > dad. mitochondria comes from your mum

There's research to suggest that a small percentage could be paternal. Who knows, maybe elevated levels of paternal mtDNA are what sorts the winners from the losers?


And the dope, obviously.

 

[gooner]

There's research to suggest that a small percentage could be paternal. Who knows, maybe elevated levels of paternal mtDNA are what sorts the winners from the losers?

JV used it on Dan Martin's mother side to pick him over Nico Roche to sign for Garmin.

 

[King Boonen]

JV used it on Dan Martin's mother side to pick him over Nico Roche to sign for Garmin.

Current dogma is it all comes from your mother, so that's perfectly logical. What I said is pretty unlikely, you never know though.

 

[sponsor]

...Given his genetic background, if Taylor Phinney can't win clean, then the entire sport is royally screwed...

There are other clean talented riders. They should be able to win too. Fact is the downhill and flat finish fit Taylor's obvious body type. Him not winning on other stages does not mean much at all.
I would not expect him to win many uphill finishes against these same guys - even if he were dirty and they were clean.

 

[mewmewmew13]

The main thing he's got going for him is his DNA.

He's exactly the type of rider who should be able to win clean. Given his genetic background, if Taylor Phinney can't win clean, then the entire sport is royally screwed.

But yeah, keeping company with Lance, Johan and Och, while trying to be the poster boy of The New Generation, doesn't help matters. Leaving JV's team for Lance's was something that came across as a bewilderingly idiotic move that was obviously orchestrated, and fully endorsed by, both Davis and Connie. I'm still at a loss when it comes to that. And when you go back and read the talking points coming out of the Phinney camp at that time, it makes no more sense now.


Very aero today though.

don't forget good friends w allen lim, Max Testa...

 

[mewmewmew13]

That's true. And yet, Phinney turned away from that, and the distinct impression I got from reading him is that he did it thanks to his greater understanding of what had happened. Not because he wanted to cover his ***, but because he knew better now.

mom and dad pulled him out ..quickly after Armstrong's shine started to fade

 

[86TDFWinner]

Because he doesn't. That's what it looks like to win a stage clean...you are actually exhausted at the end.

Chewy, love ya man, but unfortunately, we don't know 100% certain that Taylor is "clean" do we, especially since it's been claimed he's worked with Carmichael and/or Ochowicz. I want to say "Yes, he's 100% clean", but we just don't know. Not accusing anyone mind you, just suspicions.

 

[Granville57]

having exceptional genetics = not doping FALSE dichotomy

OK. Not that I ever made a point to the contrary, of course.

what about all the cyclists who do not have pros who were parents or parents who were pros?

Speaking of prose...

Genetic gifts handed down are many times not evident in the source. Lance was in possession of, at the very least, a body that responded well to the stimulants of his day. What do we know of Eddie G.? (Not to be confused with Eddy B., of course)

Linda's ex's self-assessment being:

not a great athlete when I was young. I preferred to run after girls

He could've had a heart the size of a pumpkin, and a VO2 that would make Greg blush...but we'll never know.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Personally announced by Lance Armstrong on his team.

Sorry, he deserves suspicion, but not as much as most.

This. Sad to say, but he does.

 

[Granville57]

Well at least now we've established that Taylor Phinney doesn't need a Clinic thread.