I just have to ask ? Marianne Vos

[JMBeaushrimp]

Then you must be in the Pro Peloton.

Jeanson Applies to UCI for Change of Category

Genevieve Jeanson (Rona) has applied to the UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) for permission to compete against men in time trial events.

"It has become obvious that Genevieve has no competition in the women's category" said Jeanson's coach and manager Andre Aubut. "Genevieve is already showing that her times are as good as the men, so why not give her the chance to be the best she can be?"

Specifically, Aubut has requested that the UCI will allow Jeanson to race in the elite men's category at UCI sanctioned events where there are both men's and women's races. Interestingly, the UCI has not immediately rejected the request, and has said that they want to "study it".

So far in 2002, Jeanson has won the time trials at both Redlands and Sea Otter by convincing margins, and her times would put her in the top third of the men's field.

That would be a pretty strong (Continental Pro) men's field.

Dave.

Good ol' Andre.

Kicked out of one sport for doping, jumps to another, and rather be low-profile and work the poor girl over for percentage of contracts, he chose to go even bigger than full ***.

By the time he put that request in, Genvieve was already a pariah in the women's peloton. She would not only win races, but have a five minute lead and Andre would be screaming at her to go harder. And she would.

I honestly felt really sorry for her. She had no friends in the peloton, missed out on the camaraderie of the sport, and was ruled by one of the world's biggest d*uchebags.

Oh yeah, I thought I said she'd crush the top ams in TTs and climbs. Not sure if you're adding to the discussion on picking on me...

 

[D-Queued]

Good ol' Andre.

.... Not sure if you're adding to the discussion on picking on me...

Adding!

Dave.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I would really like to see her compete against the men, going OT a bit. Perhaps a post-Tour crit or something?

http://nos.nl/video/344472-vos-wint-nog-niet-van-mannen.html

 

[Benotti69]

Steve Tilford criticises Vos for heading to south Africa to train for World XC champs.

It maybe Vos is way ahead of the competition becuase like others she has taken a dark path to glory.

I read at the end of this Cyclingnews.com article, that Marianne Vos is heading down to South Africa to train for a month before cross worlds. She did one cross race and now is off to South Africa.

Marianne Vos has the results of the best woman cyclist of all time. She has won the Olympic Games, plus the World Championships on the Road, Track and Cross numerous times. I’m surprised she doesn’t do artistic cycling too.

The problem with her going to South Africa is that it has a reputation much like Tenerife. It is a place were many pros go to train and procure doping products.

In this day and age of the sport, riders like Marianne have to be squeaky clean. The questionable action of putting yourself into a situation like this is just dumb. It’s all about perception. Maybe Marianne thinks she flies under the radar since she is a woman? I hope not.

There are lots and lots of places in this World to train in warm weather. If she is going to fly 7000 miles to do that, she should just fly to San Diego. Or even Austin. Both those places are a lot closer and are a much safer place to ride a bike than in South Africa. Plus, she could get used to the food, culture and time zone here in the US, where the race she is training for, Cyclo-X Worlds, is being held. The whole South African thing just stinks.

stevetilford.com.

I agree that perception is as big a dot to connect as testing positive.

 

[Cloxxki]

Steve Tilford criticises Vos for heading to south Africa to train for World XC champs.

It maybe Vos is way ahead of the competition becuase like others she has taken a dark path to glory.



stevetilford.com.

I agree that perception is as big a dot to connect as testing positive.

As a Dutchman, I've been criticizing our athletes (mostly runners and cyclists) to go to SA for training. For supposedly good facilities, I cannot see justification of such remoteness. That said, some notorious high-profile athlete who'll barely leave SA to show up for a big race, have been greatly underperforming these past years.
While Vos is more than a bit intelligent (would have been a doc for long without her sports), she does live in a very enclosed environment. She may not see all that we on the forum get to see.
I say this, being one of her supporters, knowing that our nation has seen some very nasty cases of families drugging their teen sports stars. A speed skating dad with a very big mouth comes to mind.
Having seen Vos from a 14yo who would beat the boys on just class and technique, I think she might be a LeMond type of talent, possibly greater. And headstrong like nothing the sport has seen. Possibly due to family expectations/support but still.
When a Brit girl beats her in a Gieten cross, I tend to be more suspect of that performance...

 

[Benotti69]

As a Dutchman, I've been criticizing our athletes (mostly runners and cyclists) to go to SA for training. For supposedly good facilities, I cannot see justification of such remoteness. That said, some notorious high-profile athlete who'll barely leave SA to show up for a big race, have been greatly underperforming these past years.
While Vos is more than a bit intelligent (would have been a doc for long without her sports), she does live in a very enclosed environment. She may not see all that we on the forum get to see.
I say this, being one of her supporters, knowing that our nation has seen some very nasty cases of families drugging their teen sports stars. A speed skating dad with a very big mouth comes to mind.
Having seen Vos from a 14yo who would beat the boys on just class and technique, I think she might be a LeMond type of talent, possibly greater. And headstrong like nothing the sport has seen. Possibly due to family expectations/support but still.
When a Brit girl beats her in a Gieten cross, I tend to be more suspect of that performance...

While Vos maybe intelligent, i doubt she lives in a bubble.

I am still out on Vos. While there is little monetary incentive to dope in women's cycling is does not stop people.

To compare Vos to LeMond is a big comparison.

 

[TheGame]

Steve Tilford criticises Vos for heading to south Africa to train for World XC champs.

It maybe Vos is way ahead of the competition becuase like others she has taken a dark path to glory.



stevetilford.com.

I agree that perception is as big a dot to connect as testing positive.

]
SteveTilford is an idiot. South Africa is a good choice for a Dutch rider in the winter as Holland is decidedly cold, and a lot of people in South Africa speak Dutch

 

[benny_profane]

I'm not sold on Vos going to South Africa being suspicious. Is SAF the only place you can get doping products now? I may be naive but surely if she wanted the best drugs surely she would stay in Europe or the US?

In regard to Wyman beating her at Gietan being suspicious, it's maybe more a case of that being Vos's first race back and Wyman being on some excellent form.

 

[Cloxxki]

While Vos maybe intelligent, i doubt she lives in a bubble.

I am still out on Vos. While there is little monetary incentive to dope in women's cycling is does not stop people.

To compare Vos to LeMond is a big comparison.

Big comparison for which? LeMond put the US on the map. Vos did the same with women's cycling. Also, already as a girl she was challenging the fastest boys in CX.
Imagine LeMond also got CX and Track titles in the same phase of his career as the TdF's. And feeling obliged to ditch speed skating and MTB to be able to focus sufficiently on the former 3. So many talents, so few days in a year...

The main point about training in SA perhaps should be the $67 wage the gold mine workers now get per month, AFTER they mortally-fought pay raise, on the land that was stolen from their ancestors, for the offspring of those who did that. You won't see white men doing the digging, I assure you.
Why did we see a SA boycott before, and not when they are (conf)using picket lines for execution lines?

So yeah, it's awesome the Dutch dare show our bleek faces there for leisurely activities such as training (not even real work) for in itself utterly useless sports.

 

[Benotti69]

Big comparison for which? LeMond put the US on the map. Vos did the same with women's cycling. Also, already as a girl she was challenging the fastest boys in CX.
Imagine LeMond also got CX and Track titles in the same phase of his career as the TdF's. And feeling obliged to ditch speed skating and MTB to be able to focus sufficiently on the former 3. So many talents, so few days in a year...

The main point about training in SA perhaps should be the $67 wage the gold mine workers now get per month, AFTER they mortally-fought pay raise, on the land that was stolen from their ancestors, for the offspring of those who did that. You won't see white men doing the digging, I assure you.
Why did we see a SA boycott before, and not when they are (conf)using picket lines for execution lines?

So yeah, it's awesome the Dutch dare show our bleek faces there for leisurely activities such as training (not even real work) for in itself utterly useless sports.

Not sure what you are doing going all colonial in regards to my post. I never mentioned it. Seems to be a problem for you!

I am not going to compare Vos to LeMond. Womens cycling and mens are not comparable. Lemond rode against big talents, Vos against????

Why cant Vos stay in Europe and ride CX races as training for racing, instead of going 'training' for a race? That I definitely dont understand. That smells of doping.

 

[benny_profane]

Since when has South Africa being linked with doping? Maybe I'm being dumb but I'd never heard of it being suspicious until that Tilford blog. It seems more likely she's just riding in warmer weather before the 'cross worlds in the New Year, maybe she's targeting the track Worlds too, who knows? She's also riding the Revolution track series in Manchester this weekend.

 

[D-Queued]

Since when has South Africa being linked with doping? Maybe I'm being dumb but I'd never heard of it being suspicious until that Tilford blog. It seems more likely she's just riding in warmer weather before the 'cross worlds in the New Year, maybe she's targeting the track Worlds too, who knows? She's also riding the Revolution track series in Manchester this weekend.

South Africa is as clean as the snow on Cape Town's beaches.

Just ask David George.

Dave.

 

[silverrocket]

I'm afraid we should probably be suspicious of anyone that dominant. World Champ at 19? So was Jan Ullrich. He also never tested positive for doping (blood bag aside), and raced at the top for many years.

If there is not the same ubiquity of doping amongst women racers, one who choose to dope would be expected to see even larger relative gains. If that rider was already quite talented, those gains would let that rider completely dominate.

 

[benny_profane]

South Africa is as clean as the snow on Cape Town's beaches.

Just ask David George.

Dave.

I'm not saying that no South African has ever doped, I just don't understand why it's any more suspicious to go there to train than it is to stay in Europe. I've just never heard to it referred to as doping hot spot before.

 

[Willy_Voet]

I'm not sure how one of the most dominant female riders in recent history should escape the same critiques/suspicions leveled at male riders. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt...she may be a Greg Lemond. Performing at her level between 2005 and the present hints at something more like a David Rebellin.

 

[D-Queued]

I'm not saying that no South African has ever doped, I just don't understand why it's any more suspicious to go there to train than it is to stay in Europe. I've just never heard to it referred to as doping hot spot before.

Point taken. But, if you are a non-SA national then it is a lot harder for your ADA's chaperones to afford the time and airfare.

Dave.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Point taken. But, if you are a non-SA national then it is a lot harder for your ADA's chaperones to afford the time and airfare.

Dave.

Maybe even easier for a friend at home to tip you off about a possible impending visit if Dutch ADA should decide to pony-up for the travel expenses?

 

[Cloxxki]

Maybe even easier for a friend at home to tip you off about a possible impending visit if Dutch ADA should decide to pony-up for the travel expenses?

Dutch ADA complains in the press of not having the same tools as some peers like USADA. Tests don't offer dopers. Dutch ADA sits on non-analytical proof it cannot use. They know who the dopers are, but can't nail them in current system.

OK I agree. SA reeks of doping, even if no single athlete training there ever tested positive (and see above). Just too convenient, a country in basically eternal tribe wars, and no sterile test tube within many hours of flying.
For Vos to travel THAT far asks for better explanation. Would it be because Tenerife/Mallorca is just not acceptable anymore, possibly even disadvised by her national fed and ADA? Don't rule out that argument.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm not sure how one of the most dominant female riders in recent history should escape the same critiques/suspicions leveled at male riders. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt...she may be a Greg Lemond. Performing at her level between 2005 and the present hints at something more like a David Rebellin.

But the flip side of the narrow talent pool in women's cycling is that only the few who achieve the best results can afford to dedicate themselves full time to it, and then these are inevitably the ones that profit most from that and then continue to win events.

Not that that necessarily means that she's clean, but she does have much more freedom to train and to dedicate herself to cycling than a lot of people who are making ends meet in the sport.

 

[Velodude]

]
SteveTilford is an idiot. South Africa is a good choice for a Dutch rider in the winter as Holland is decidedly cold, and a lot of people in South Africa speak Dutch

They speak Afrikaans which has its main origins in Dutch but have contributions from other languages.

Dutch and Afrikaans are however mutually intelligible to educated persons, like, say, Portuguese understanding Spanish and vice versa.

 

[benny_profane]

There is racing this time of year in South Africa. Maybe she's competing in that and then riding 'cross at the end of December?

It's an interesting point about ADAs.

 

[arjanh]

I'm Dutch, so maybe I'm biased, but the number of women that race is far less than the number of men, so it's easier for a woman to stand out. Also, as mentioned already in this thread, there's less money going around in female cycling, so USPS-like doping programs are far less likely. Furthermore, she hasn't stopped winning ever since she was, what, nine years old, or so. And she's not one of the best TT rider. You'd kinda expect that if she'd dope.

 

[stevetilford]

This is from Cyclingnews.com November, 2010

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dop...h-interpol-and-afld-following-meeting-in-lyon

Monte Teide suddenly out of fashion

Gazzetta suggests that the combined investigation has sparked some riders to change mobile telephone numbers in recent months and lead to teams changing the location of their training camps.

Monte Teide on Tenerife, where several teams and groups have riders have spent long spells in the past, has suddenly gone out of fashion because it is now strictly controlled. Mount Etna in Sicily was being considered as an alternative but some riders and coaches are set to return to Namibia and South Africa, which was used in the early nineties.

 

[Willy_Voet]

I'm Dutch, so maybe I'm biased, but the number of women that race is far less than the number of men, so it's easier for a woman to stand out.

I'm not sure the big fish/small bond argument works. If I doped I would crush everyone on the Saturday morning ride. Plus, there are plenty of women riders who do test positive.

And she's not one of the best TT rider. You'd kinda expect that if she'd dope.

Not sure the TT argument works, either. Johan Museeuw and Frank Schleck were/are pretty terrible TT riders. (Of course, Frank only was thinking about doping and never actually got around to doing it or something like that)

 

[sniper]

in 2010 Vos explicitly called for more OOC testing in women's cycling.
http://www.bicycle.net/2010/marianne-vos-calls-for-more-out-of-competition-testing
perhaps she was clean in 2010.
in more recent interviews, however, I haven't heard her take an unambiguous anti-doping stance.
going to SA is very dodgy. It's a dangerous place. athletes go there for one reason only.

perhaps there is a correlation between Vos discovering SA and her improved performances in 2012.