I just have to ask ? Marianne Vos

[Libertine Seguros]

It's a dangerous place. athletes go there for one reason only.

To catch bilharzia?

 

[qwerty16]

I would really like to see her compete against the men, going OT a bit. Perhaps a post-Tour crit or something?

http://nos.nl/video/436750-.html

Ultimately getting dropped on a bridge...

 

[arjanh]

I'm not sure the big fish/small bond argument works. If I doped I would crush everyone on the Saturday morning ride. Plus, there are plenty of women riders who do test positive.

It's simple statistics: the smaller the population, the larger the fluctuations you expect. Compared to the thousands and thousands of Saturday morning warriors, your crushing would become suspect pretty soon.

Not sure the TT argument works, either. Johan Museeuw and Frank Schleck were/are pretty terrible TT riders. (Of course, Frank only was thinking about doping and never actually got around to doing it or something like that)

Fair point.

 

[Cloxxki]

http://nos.nl/video/436750-.html

Ultimately getting dropped on a bridge...

Thanks for the link. She made an attack to the men's peloton before that brigde. Katusha hauled her back.

 

[oldcrank]

athletes go there for one reason only.

Athletes that I know have gone there for several reasons:
1. Watch the World Cup of Soccer
2. Participate in World Masters Athletics Championships
3. Compete in UCI World Cup of Track Cycling
4. Watch Rugby
5. Participate in a friendly Cricket series
6. Holiday
7. Spread the ashes of a dear friend that passed abroad
8. Participate in the Comrades Marathon

Which was the one reason you are referring to?

 

[GPdesAmeriques]

There are lots and lots of places in this World to train in warm weather. If she is going to fly 7000 miles to do that, she should just fly to San Diego. Or even Austin. Both those places are a lot closer and are a much safer place to ride a bike than in South Africa. Plus, she could get used to the food, culture and time zone here in the US, where the race she is training for, Cyclo-X Worlds, is being held. The whole South African thing just stinks.

The World Championships are in early February. So Vos is going to train in the USA for two months eating lots of Kentucky Fried Chicken?

I think I read the training camp is for the KNWU or Rabobank Women's road team. It's nothing to do with cyclocross.

 

[GPdesAmeriques]

Athletes that I know have gone there for several reasons:
1. Watch the World Cup of Soccer
2. Participate in World Masters Athletics Championships
3. Compete in UCI World Cup of Track Cycling
4. Watch Rugby
5. Participate in a friendly Cricket series
6. Holiday
7. Spread the ashes of a dear friend that passed abroad
8. Participate in the Comrades Marathon

Which was the one reason you are referring to?

Or maybe the world's largest sportive / Gran Fondo?

http://www.cycletour.co.za/

 

[usedtobefast]

The World Championships are in early February. So Vos is going to train in the USA for two months eating lots of Kentucky Fried Chicken?

I think I read the training camp is for the KNWU or Rabobank Women's road team. It's nothing to do with cyclocross.

not chicken. deep fried bacon burgers. all the local pros are training that way now.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Why does she need to dope when she is multi-discipline dominant all year long?

She's Lemond/Hinault/... world-class dominant. Her performance is consistent with a natural athlete in the sense when she shows up, she's practically assured a podium. See her road results below.

http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOFRAMES/Template3/layout.asp?MenuId=MTYzMzc&LangId=1

I genuinely hope it's not true. I would be disappointed, but not surprised even though most elite women can't possibly make a living at it.

Given the lack of money in women's cycling I doubt she could afford the Pat/Hein Terrorists club donation to stay negative. So, if it happens it will be a "BAM! Gone!" positive. This is Pro cycling after all

 

[Dear Wiggo]

What are the legal implications of doping in SA? Training camp locations are favoured for

1. training: road quality - diversity and lack of traffic with hills
2. training: hotel quality + price + possibly altitude
3. training: other riders / motor pacer / racing opportunities
4. doping: remoteness / limited airport / routes in - simple vampire detection
5. doping: access to medical help / products
6. doping: legality of doping product possession or use
7. training: weather - warm and dry

If Kenyan runners can dope in Kenya, a more affluent South Africa can surely afford similar medical staff and products.

 

[sniper]

Athletes that I know have gone there for several reasons:
1. Watch the World Cup of Soccer
2. Participate in World Masters Athletics Championships
3. Compete in UCI World Cup of Track Cycling
4. Watch Rugby
5. Participate in a friendly Cricket series
6. Holiday
7. Spread the ashes of a dear friend that passed abroad
8. Participate in the Comrades Marathon

Which was the one reason you are referring to?

exactly, training is not a reason. thanks for confirming.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

exactly, training is not a reason. thanks for confirming.

- BOOM -

headshot.

 

[sniper]

Athletes that I know have gone there for several reasons:
1. Watch the World Cup of Soccer
2. Participate in World Masters Athletics Championships
3. Compete in UCI World Cup of Track Cycling
4. Watch Rugby
5. Participate in a friendly Cricket series
6. Holiday
7. Spread the ashes of a dear friend that passed abroad
8. Participate in the Comrades Marathon

Which was the one reason you are referring to?

exactly, training is not a reason. thanks for confirming.

 

[sniper]

What are the legal implications of doping in SA? Training camp locations are favoured for

1. training: road quality - diversity and lack of traffic with hills
2. training: hotel quality + price + possibly altitude
3. training: other riders / motor pacer / racing opportunities
4. doping: remoteness / limited airport / routes in - simple vampire detection
5. doping: access to medical help / products
6. doping: legality of doping product possession or use
7. training: weather - warm and dry

If Kenyan runners can dope in Kenya, a more affluent South Africa can surely afford similar medical staff and products.

another plus could be:
8. training: timezone doesn't change (compared to Europe, that is), so no jetlag..

however, i'm not sure if i understand the climate-related argument (7): do you really want to train in a warm and dry climate if only a small percentage of the races per year take place in such a climate?
this question is of course not just wrt southafrica, also wrt tenerife and spain, where the general argument is always "we go there for the good weather".

 

[Dear Wiggo]

however, i'm not sure if i understand the climate-related argument (7): do you really want to train in a warm and dry climate if only a small percentage of the races per year take place in such a climate?
this question is of course not just wrt southafrica, also wrt tenerife and spain, where the general argument is always "we go there for the good weather".

Depends where & when the goal race is. If you're doing Giro, Tour or Vuelta, training in similar conditions (hot and dry, hot windy, etc) is very beneficial.

Where and when are world CX champs being held?

Apart from that, anything that encourages training is good - and good weather definitely has that effect, as well as a morale boost if there's good sunshine, as well as Vit D production, etc.

 

[peterst6906]

another plus could be:
however, i'm not sure if i understand the climate-related argument (7)...

Weather also relates to the daylight hours.

Moving into winter in The Netherlands the days become short and the weather is wet; neither of which is conducive to good base training.

In SA, instead of the days shortening to around 7 hours of daylight, the days are becoming longer and moving towards 15 hours of daylight.

 

[sniper]

(snipped)

(snipped)

good points.

i think we need not have any illusions that women's cycling is clean.

here is the interview in which Marianne speaks about doping and OOC controls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Na8hA1A_ko
She does choose the right words ("more OOC testing", "no objections whatsoever to whereabout-rules").
On the whole it's a convincing interview, imo.
Note though that she seems rather nervous when she says "my performances are dope free", as she doesn't pause after that sentence, which is typical for lying.

 

[Benotti69]

For those doubting the reasons for a woman cyclist to dope, i ask you to remember Jeannie Longo.

 

[Frosty]

Dont see the big scandal in going to south africa myself. The southern hemisphere is in its summer offering hot weather and south africa is relatively dry. Australia/New Zealand would be a similar option but the flight isnt as long and you dont have the jet lag going there or back. Also, some parts of south africa are surprisingly high up - Jo'burg is 1753 metres up. Just have to watch out for this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zirE_r5l4

 

[Dazed and Confused]

For those doubting the reasons for a woman cyclist to dope, i ask you to remember Jeannie Longo.

The desire to win and be the best is not the main difference between man and woman.

Longo, 40 years at the top of cycling. Never tested positive. Clean.

 

[veganrob]

Weather also relates to the daylight hours.

Moving into winter in The Netherlands the days become short and the weather is wet; neither of which is conducive to good base training.

In SA, instead of the days shortening to around 7 hours of daylight, the days are becoming longer and moving towards 15 hours of daylight.

If Vos does not want to train in Netherlands that is certainly her perogative. She can go wherever shw wants. However. She does not need base training at this point she needs more CX specific training.
And 7 hours of daylight is not enough to accomplish this?

 

[benny_profane]

If Vos does not want to train in Netherlands that is certainly her perogative. She can go wherever shw wants. However. She does not need base training at this point she needs more CX specific training.
And 7 hours of daylight is not enough to accomplish this?

I think there's a bit of confusion over what she's actually doing. I've not seen anything that's said she's specifically gone over there to train for CX. Other female riders are out there competing in races, Vos is riding track in Manchester this weekend.

 

[GreggGermer]

Steve Tilford criticises Vos for heading to south Africa to train for World XC champs.

It maybe Vos is way ahead of the competition becuase like others she has taken a dark path to glory.



stevetilford.com.

I agree that perception is as big a dot to connect as testing positive.

Having been to South Africa for two periods of training I did so not for doping but because I had 1) A free place to crash with a friend 2) Consistent weather for training in winter 3) Great training with lots of climbing and altitude 4) Others who I could train with almost every day (where I lived in Houston had no one in my area who were able to train with in the week, it made the 5 hour days on the bike soooo boring.) So I welcome the change of scenery SA provided. Also the early season races are only 100k long, so they are hard, but not to long and you can get in some early races while continuing your base. I never found it any more dangerous than most big cities in the US, you just used some extra caution.

So, no, you don't specifically go to SA for doping (but I'm sure it happens).

So your guys argument that SA training = doping is just speculation (a favorite past time of the Clinic). Vos is women's cycling's Merckx. Through the grapevine of the cycling world I've heard how hard she prepares and trains, those around her have always proclaimed her to be good because of her work ethic, not doping.

Just my 2 cents ...

 

[Benotti69]

Having been to South Africa for two periods of training I did so not for doping but because I had 1) A free place to crash with a friend 2) Consistent weather for training in winter 3) Great training with lots of climbing and altitude 4) Others who I could train with almost every day (where I lived in Houston had no one in my area who were able to train with in the week, it made the 5 hour days on the bike soooo boring.) So I welcome the change of scenery SA provided. Also the early season races are only 100k long, so they are hard, but not to long and you can get in some early races while continuing your base. I never found it any more dangerous than most big cities in the US, you just used some extra caution.

So, no, you don't specifically go to SA for doping (but I'm sure it happens).

So your guys argument that SA training = doping is just speculation (a favorite past time of the Clinic). Vos is women's cycling's Merckx. Through the grapevine of the cycling world I've heard how hard she prepares and trains, those around her have always proclaimed her to be good because of her work ethic, not doping.

Just my 2 cents ...

We all know Merckx doped!

 

[theyoungest]

The people wondering why Vos would go to the Southern Hemisphere to train obviously don't live in the cold, flat, rainy, and windy Netherlands.