I think Vaughters really wants to sign Contador:

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Anonymous

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The funny thing is that when I started this thread, the title was just a sarcastic comment on what JV said about Walsh. I really didn't think there was much in the idea of Contador going to Garmin because I figured Caisse would be the only real player and that Astana were most likely going to play hard ball and keep him. However, as this thing continues (irrespective of JV's current protestations) it appears maybe I was closer to the heart of the matter than I initially believed because lets face it, if you called for a voice vote (yea or nea) on whether Berto is "enhanced," I don't think a roll call follow up would be needed. Some pre run interference would be logical on the part of any team wishing to sign him even though according to McQuaid (I believe he was the source), Berto is the new face of clean cycling. If it walks like a duck...
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
He has been saying since August or so that Contador was leaving and for the past couple of weeks that the three way deal was a done deal. He acted like he knew some behind the scenes info as though he has some direct contact. I think the guy is funny, but thought he was just trolling a bit. Maybe not?

Then again, maybe he is just a moderately good gambler because it isn't like anyone has been saying "No way"...well except for JV, Astana, Wiggins, and Contador. And the principal players are not usually a good source. Maybe The Hog is just shooting for some legitimacy here and he doubled down on a rumor that had a decent shot of being true?
Cheers for that!

It could be that he is trying to manipulate the media, to create a hype or buzz, making participants in the negotiations nervous and showing that he is still in charge and can pulls some strings. If he goes to RS, he would greatly benefit if Contador stays with Astana (and Vino), a team they are now stripping of their assets. Latest casualty, Brajkovic...

I mean, sometimes deals are broken off, because rumours/info reaches the media too early, breaks down trust, gives away intentions and motives, too much room for wild speculation and bogs down the negotiation process...
 
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Bala Verde said:
Cheers for that!

It could be that he is trying to manipulate the media, to create a hype or buzz, making participants in the negotiations nervous and showing that he is still in charge and can pulls some strings. If he goes to RS, he would greatly benefit if Contador stays with Astana (and Vino), a team they are now stripping of their assets. Latest casualty, Brajkovic...

I mean, sometimes deals are broken off, because rumours/info reaches the media too early, breaks down trust, gives away intentions and motives, too much room for wild speculation and bogs down the negotiation process...
Oops, I was referring to "The Hog" who posts here. Not Bruyneel...sorry.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Oops, I was referring to "The Hog" who posts here. Not Bruyneel...sorry.
haha. That's probably why I never read anything in 'official' newspapers. The confusion here is reversely proportional to the "Hog's" knowledge of the matter then... Total ;)
 
Aug 5, 2009
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If this deal is done, it says the most about the mindset of the Astana leadership. They must think that UCI is going to pull the PT license and are trying to get some value for their Contador rights before they evaporate.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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dimspace said:
my gut feeling is its sponsor pressure.. and as long as sponsors want top riders, tour challengers, it rather puts DS's in a dilemma...
if the DS in question really wanted credibility on the doping issue he would walk away . but i guess that would require a spine :rolleyes:
 
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The big sticking point is the Astana Pro Tour license. If they lose the license then AC, and others, are free to walk. Zubeldia was interviewed on Spanish TV yesterday and said essentially this, but even he was confused by the situation.
 
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Race Radio said:
The big sticking point is the Astana Pro Tour license. If they lose the license then AC, and others, are free to walk. Zubeldia was interviewed on Spanish TV yesterday and said essentially this, but even he was confused by the situation.
Hmm... This is totally a conspiracy theory by me but given the influence that LA has with the UCI, could it be possible that LA/RadioShack make sure that Astana get their PT License thus (more or less) trapping Contador?
 
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Mellow Velo said:
He basically says:

"I am an employee of Lehman Brothers with a contract for another year, but we all know that due to the amount of toxic assets we carry, which has negatively affected our liquidity and solvency position, our competitiveness in the PT market is heavily jeopardized. Without outside intervention that would improve our cash flow, inject new blood into the organisation at key positions, and rid us of our toxic assets at a fair price, we cannot avoid (short term) bankruptcy.

In the meanwhile however, the existing conditions in the contract have put me in a stranglehold, and prohibit me to apply for new positions"
 
May 13, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
He basically says:

"I am an employee of Lehman Brothers with a contract for another year, but we all know that due to the amount of toxic assets we carry, which has negatively affected our liquidity and solvency position, our competitiveness in the PT market is heavily jeopardized. Without outside intervention that would improve our cash flow, inject new blood into the organisation at key positions, and rid us of our toxic assets at a fair price, we cannot avoid (short term) bankruptcy.

In the meanwhile however, the existing conditions in the contract have put me in a stranglehold, and prohibit me to apply for new positions"
Ah, I see you dumbed it down to an i-banker level. Thanks for that. :D

I think ASO & UCI will be very happy to see Bertie leave Astana. I'm sure they'd love to not have Astana at the TdF next year, but they don't feel like barring the current champion from racing it ... again. On the other hand, a more or less pure Kazakh team led by Vino with a record of financial troubles and doping baggage? No problem pulling the plug on that one.
 
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Cobblestones said:
Ah, I see you dumbed it down to an i-banker level. Thanks for that. :D

I think ASO & UCI will be very happy to see Bertie leave Astana. I'm sure they'd love to not have Astana at the TdF next year, but they don't feel like barring the current champion from racing it ... again. On the other hand, a more or less pure Kazakh team led by Vino with a record of financial troubles and doping baggage? No problem pulling the plug on that one.
im under the impression that they can fail to renaw for failing to meet criteria but can only remove a licence for specific actions as in earlier in the year.. finances arent going to be a problem now vino is there.. so the only thing they can hope for is catching them doping, but removing their pt licence for doping sets a dangerous precident..

is the agreement in place yet for all pt teams to be in the tour, or does that not kick in yet..
 
May 13, 2009
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dimspace said:
im under the impression that they can fail to renaw for failing to meet criteria but can only remove a licence for specific actions as in earlier in the year.. finances arent going to be a problem now vino is there.. so the only thing they can hope for is catching them doping, but removing their pt licence for doping sets a dangerous precident..

is the agreement in place yet for all pt teams to be in the tour, or does that not kick in yet..
That's a good question. I thought ASO can still invite whomever they want. The ProTour was essentially dead after the UCI caved in. It would be strange for ASO to give up that privilege.
 
Cobblestones said:
That's a good question. I thought ASO can still invite whomever they want. The ProTour was essentially dead after the UCI caved in. It would be strange for ASO to give up that privilege.
That was before the shake-up at the ASO. Who knows what kind of understanding they have with the UCI now.

After the battle with the GTs, the ProTour looked intent on reducing the number of ProTour teams to sixteen. Now it looks like they will go back up to twenty, so something must have changed.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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Ok - this is from memory so.....

I believe the top 17 teams of the Pro Tour get invites for the 'Historical Calender". With the organizers selecting the rest.

On Contador and Garmin - well my position was that although JV & AC had talks that they had not developed in to anything serious - so JV had probably not had the opportunity to see AC's blood profile.

But on seeing todays reports from AC - the Garmin option is still alive. So has JV seen AC's blood values? I had fully expected that if this progressed to that point that JV would look at the values - and then say "AC is too expensive"..."Has a contract with Astana"...."Doesnt look good in Argyle"...

Time will tell.
 

the big ring

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mikkemus23 said:
"Vaugthers also pointed out factors such as rolling resistance and bike mass altering from the mid 90s to the present day, as well as the high-tech fibers within clothing, lighter components and that bikes are now on the limit of the UCI's weight minimum regulations of 6.8kg. "

"In the mid-90s bikes were 9kg, you had these heavy Carnac shoes that Pantani used to wear, and the clothing held more sweat, so four kilograms per watt for a rider like Pantani who only weighed 55kg is around seven percent, which would have had a massive effect on his ascent velocity."

"Then there are the tiny details like wheels being more aerodynamic, ceramic bearings, and so on..."


Sounds a bit much to me, what do you guys think?
I love me some marginal gains!! :eek:
 
Cobblestones said:
I think ASO & UCI will be very happy to see Bertie leave Astana.
I don't know what ASO would do, but at the UCI it's about the money they bring to the sport and the Kazakhs bring the money.

I don't really know if Contador on his own brings money in the way an Armstrong did or the Schlecks do.
 
May 26, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
I don't know what ASO would do, but at the UCI it's about the money they bring to the sport and the Kazakhs bring the money.

I don't really know if Contador on his own brings money in the way an Armstrong did or the Schlecks do.
I think Franck missed a payment in July:D
 

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