- Mar 13, 2009
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don't think you dope Wiggins and Vande Velde. But I think you know they are doing transfusions. You never finished a Tour. You know how the body responds after five days at the Tour.JV1973 said:Ok, I know I'm nuts for even bothering here, but here goes:
My major point had to do with the percentage of anearobic work done in a 20 minute efforts vs a 40 min effort. The bike weight, etc etc, probably does only account for 20 watts assuming a perfectly steady effort (which is an invalid assumption if you've ever watched a bike race). However, the amount of power produced beyond what is produced aerobically in a 20 minute effort is considerable, it is not in a 40 minute effort - in my experience!
So, that was my point. If you fellows would like to keep going on about how we dope Brad and Christian, then have at it. It's really silly, as they aren't, but whatever, I've spent enough time trying to fight windmills for today. Have at it boys.
Sorry that I no longer have your respect - JV
Vande Velde has said, on the first big mtn finish in 08 where Peipoli, Cobo, and Schleck went away, and Kohl followed later, he should have gone, and he could have.
He also said he could have followed moves in later mtn stages in the third week.
JV, you know those guys are charged. Frank Schleck was charged, Peipoli was controlled positive, and Cobo was not controlled positive, but he was charging.
It is indeed a false syllogism to say, 1,2,3 doped, ergo, 4th doped. Not all the peloton are charged, so you cannot stick them all in the $hit.
Vande Velde has said he needs to along time to prepare for a GT, and he said he had 3 weeks proper training for the Tour this year. Again, a little tough to reconcile.
Wiggins hemoglobin went up 0.8 and Ashenden has said before, that this is unlikely to occur in a GT and would be suspicious. OK, so this is simplifying things out of all scientific realm. How much did his crit go up, it went up by a point too, during the Tour?
You have said you would have signed Landis, if he was not sanctioned. But his crit went up a couple of points in '06.
You wanted to sign Contador. But Werner Franke said he had compelling evidence from Puerto. Again, cannot be sumbitted, but this is a forum, and we need to open our eyes.
My problem is, a little like those guys at Domina Vacenze I think, did they call you guys (Garmin) "a pack of arseholes". My concern is, not so much the doping, I don't like that, but it is being sold a bill of goods. "We are clean" ergo, a differentiation. An exceptionalism. Why are you exceptional? I see riders I do not believe in. I did, I assumed you were running a rigorous program, and believed your riders. But I can't accept those performances, and reconcile the conflicts.
1. Landis and Contador.
2. The Tour can be won clean. This is pure fantasy.
The message has changed now, to "you can win clean". Which is less differentiation, and throwing the peloton in the $hit. But, if I was a clean rider, perhaps I was a clean rider on a team which was pretty dirty, and you were saying "we are clean" but I know you are not, but I am riding clean, and getting a bad rep for riding on a murky squad, yet your big hitters and the A team, are also compromised. Not all, and not the first rider, thru the 28th man. I am not inferring a team wide or systemic program. I think you are smart enough to have a few degrees of separation and plausible deniabilty. I want to know what Prentice Steffan and Allen Lim think.
What Boardman says still holds, "if it is too good to be true, it probably is".
This may seem a little mob hue and cry, and lynching. I am angry because I believed and hoped it was true.
I want Joe Lindsey and Paul Kimmage to do their job, and hold you to account, not spin. I know what Walsh thinks, but I want to see him come out in the Times with it. It is not for me on a messageboard to try and tell you what alot think, you can read the French, German and Flemish boards, and see their opinions on your hitters. I want someone in the Anglophone press to pull the trigger. Kimmage was the only one with guts to confront Armstrong, but everyone is seduced by your team at the moment, but to me, this is more egregious, but it is not real. And there is an orchestrated campaign to indoctrinate us with your clean program. Either quit the holier than thou, we are clean, ergo... and quit telling us you can win the Tour clean, or you will have that blowback, from the constituency like mine or Domina Vacenze. Someone has to say they feel betrayed, that cycling forces on us the same ol' $hit, year after year, year after year. I am fed up.