I think Vaughters really wants to sign Contador:

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Dr. Maserati said:
So why were you encouraging JV not to post?
I was not holding JV to LA's standard - but if JV does not post then we are relying on CN & newspaper articles for information - which in most incidences are rehashed press releases - thats false logic.

As for rigorous standards - have Garmin signed AC??
JV has said they talked - but he would not be in a position to move further until they had seen Ac's UCI blood values. So- they talked, nothing more- in fact it would have been damning if JV said they didn't talk.

As I said before I find the fact that JV defended the Bio-Passport far more troubling than JV having an informal chat with Contador over a meal.

I dont like spin and BS. Post, but lies and propaganda you can go elsewhere. Oh, keep on posting, and I will keep on pointing out the contradictions and hypocrisy.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Dude17 said:
What does JV gain from responding to your direct question? He appeases a few cycling fans. Balance that against: He would also now be "on record" and all the problems that that can bring him. Maybe he feels that the Bio-Passport is a piece of trash and would rather carry the party line of "should not be critisized" than cause potential problems for himself and his team.

You can learn a lot from what is omitted, but it isn't always what you think.
What does he gain - some respect for answering the question. We would learn more about his position and he would learn ours.

I don't think you read the original article by JV or my original question - it was in direct response to his quote - I wasn't asking what he thinks of the Bio-passport, he made a public comment- he is already on the public record.
This is where I share Blackcats skepticism - we received through the media JV defending the system with no questions asked.

JV joined here and has offered some insight in to some of his practices - we did not ask him to engage however now that he has it is a good opportunity to find out some facts and avoid speculation - which is why I welcome his input.

From that we can ascertain whether we are engaged in a proper dialogue or -as Blackcat quite rightly reminds us - in clever PR.
 
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Thoughtforfood said:
Somewhere I read that he was offered $4 million from Garmin. I will try to find the source.
AC's website;

http://www.albertocontadornotebook.info/


"Offers are also being fielded from Garmin, who are offering him a salary of €4,000,000, and from Eusebio Unzué’s Caisse d’Epargne, who are looking for a secondary sponsor to finance the scheme".
 

Dr. Maserati

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Scott SoCal said:
AC's website;

http://www.albertocontadornotebook.info/


"Offers are also being fielded from Garmin, who are offering him a salary of €4,000,000, and from Eusebio Unzué’s Caisse d’Epargne, who are looking for a secondary sponsor to finance the scheme".
Lol... you beat me to it - but again it is just a piece mentioning Garmin and Ac and pointing out how much it will cost to gain his services.

Officially there can be no confirmation of any deals until next Tuesday - so to be fair to JV he cannot come on here and confirm or deny the speculation - I will reserve judgment until we see where AC ends up.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
Lol... you beat me to it - but again it is just a piece mentioning Garmin and Ac and pointing out how much it will cost to gain his services.

Officially there can be no confirmation of any deals until next Tuesday - so to be fair to JV he cannot come on here and confirm or deny the speculation - I will reserve judgment until we see where AC ends up.
And that's fair. Don't you find it interesting that AC's claiming an offer is on the table? If true then JV has done enough due diligence to satisfy him or he's willing to sell his soul to win the TdF.
 
Aug 18, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
What does he gain - some respect for answering the question. We would learn more about his position and he would learn ours.

I don't think you read the original article by JV or my original question - it was in direct response to his quote - I wasn't asking what he thinks of the Bio-passport, he made a public comment- he is already on the public record.
This is where I share Blackcats skepticism - we received through the media JV defending the system with no questions asked.

JV joined here and has offered some insight in to some of his practices - we did not ask him to engage however now that he has it is a good opportunity to find out some facts and avoid speculation - which is why I welcome his input.

From that we can ascertain whether we are engaged in a proper dialogue or -as Blackcat quite rightly reminds us - in clever PR.
You mean the one from eleven days ago? I read both when they were posted. I don't have perfect recall and thought you were asking a different question.

Dr. Maserati said:
My main concern is that the Bio-Passport is being used to target riders with suspicious values - like Di Luca. However the purpose of the Bio-Passport was to sanction riders who had suspicious values- so why wasn't Di Luca sanctioned when his values were suspicious?Although I concede -I might be being a little unfair - and we need to wait until the 5 cases have been legally dealt with.
Okay, so you're asking him a procedural question that is more rightly put to WADA or UCI. The only thing he gets for answering that is headaches from those organizations. Oh that and he gets respect for answering a direct question? From a few cycling fans? Why should he care? Seriously.

Maybe he came on with nefarious intentions (rubbing of hands and bwahaha and all) to spin what he said. Or he came in good faith to give his side of events.

Thought for the moment: No one thinks he is evil. In each of our eyes we are each doing what we think is right. Others may disagree.
 

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Dude17 said:
You mean the one from eleven days ago? I read both when they were posted. I don't have perfect recall and thought you were asking a different question.



Okay, so you're asking him a procedural question that is more rightly put to WADA or UCI. The only thing he gets for answering that is headaches from those organizations. Oh that and he gets respect for answering a direct question? From a few cycling fans? Why should he care? Seriously.

Maybe he came on with nefarious intentions (rubbing of hands and bwahaha and all) to spin what he said. Or he came in good faith to give his side of events.

Thought for the moment: No one thinks he is evil. In each of our eyes we are each doing what we think is right. Others may disagree.
No - that was not the piece I was referring to.
And from memory that question was rhetorical as opposed to direct. I will repost the original.
I was not asking his opinions but I was responding to his direct quotes in defending the system.

You ask why should he care? I cannot answer that for him, however he cared enough to join a discussion and to offer some of his insight - was it PR or BS -I do not believe so. But if his goal was to engage with the cycling community then I feel it is proper that he is asked the difficult questions.

I do not think JV is evil - in fact I think he is one of the few good guys in Pro Cycling. And I do respect him for coming on here - but I also feel some sympathy for his position - I would love the opportunity to ask some questions to Lefevere or Riis, or even Pat McQuaid. :eek:
 

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Originaly posted on the 'JV1973 Appreciation" thread , 21st August:

JV I am going to ask some direct questions on the Biological Passport as you recently made comments defending it and said that it is something the Cycling community should be proud of.

However if we - the members of the forum and cycling fans - had confidence in the system then wouldn't it be fair to assume that you wouldn't need to come in here and defend your riders - or even Contador for that matter?

Your comments from Cyclingnews article:
"I respect Walsh and his anti-doping stance. That being said, I don't like criticism of the biological passport. I understand that it isn't perfect, like any anti-doping technology, but it is the best technology that we've got right now, and I think it's something that the sport should be immensely proud of. No one has done this before and we're pushing the boundaries to the far edge. We've got to be proud of that".

Danilo Di Luca was found non negative for CERA in July - the UCI were quick to point out that it was through targeted information from the Biological Passport.
However the reason for the Biological Passport was to sanction riders who had suspicious values.

My questions are:
Why should we feel proud in a $5 million system that fails in its primary objective?

And why is you said "I don't like criticism of of the Biological Passport"?
 
Aug 18, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
My questions are:
Why should we feel proud in a $5 million system that fails in its primary objective?

And why is you said "I don't like criticism of of the Biological Passport"?
Okay, that one from the other thread. Okay the first one appears more rhetorical than a question that anyone would answer (right?).

As for the second, he might have felt that his statement "it is the best technology that we've got right now" answered it. Could he have clarified more? Probably. Should he have?... not so clear cut to me.

I hope that JV continues to post here. I liked the info he gave on power numbers in another thread (or maybe it was this one, they all blend together after a while). I'd love to hear more about how team strategies are put together. Maybe after the Vuelta he'll come back on and talk about what the intended strategy was and what they had to change along the way.

As for doping, I'd like to hear his views on what is being done right v. wrong with controls/punishment. Another thing he'd, rightly, dodge as he'd just be asking for trouble.

Anyway, long answer to say, I'm glad JV is around. I don't mind if he ducks the occasional question. There can be good reasons to do so that aren't "evil" (can't think of a better word at the moment, not enough sleep last night).
 

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BanProCycling said:
He's already answered your questions in the quote you provide. He's bascially saying it's a major step forward and is getting better all the time, so he doesn't like the way some people completely poo poo it. Pretty common sense really. No wonder he didn't answer it again.
Let us try some common sence shall we?

JV says "I understand that it isn't perfect" - ok then, how do you make it perfect or are you BPC happy or 'proud' to have a $5 million system that "isn't perfect" and does not do what it is intended to do?

Common sence would tell you that if you want to improve something that "isn't perfect" you make critical judgements on it - ie you critisize it - but JV says "I don't like criticism of the biological passport"

And just to remind you your opinion is that Contador doped to win this TdF - so common sence would tell us that this implies that you feel the Bio-Passport doesnt catch the dopers either.
 
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BanProCycling said:
Well I'm not paying for it so I don't care about how much it costs. The point JV is making is that it is a major step forward that will improve with time. He's right.



It's a verbal interview - I think he is saying that he doesn't like people trashing it and making out it makes no difference. Common sense instructs us to read through the lines.



I don't know if Contador doped - it wouldn't suprise me if he did - yet we now have a situation where we know almost for certain that the third and fourth place men didn't dope, so that's a major breakthrough in the Tour. I'm proud about that.
Seriously, you are the best troll ever...well, Jeff Vader was better, but you come in a distant second.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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BanProCycling said:
Well I'm not paying for it so I don't care about how much it costs. The point JV is making is that it is a major step forward that will improve with time. He's right.



It's a verbal interview - I think he is saying that he doesn't like people trashing it and making out it makes no difference. Common sense instructs us to read through the lines.



I don't know if Contador doped - it wouldn't suprise me if he did - yet we now have a situation where we know almost for certain that the third and fourth place men didn't dope, so that's a major breakthrough in the Tour. I'm proud about that.
yawn :rolleyes:
 
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BanProCycling said:
Hmmm. I don't mind this troll stuff, but it is a little bit distracting to the thread to keep on repeating it. You've made your views clear on that - for the benefit of others you don't have to repeat it every time I mention that I think the evidence shows LA and Wiggins didn't dope this year.
yawn :rolleyes:
 

Dr. Maserati

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BanProCycling said:
Hmmm. I don't mind this troll stuff, but it is a little bit distracting to the thread to keep on repeating it. You've made your views clear on that - for the benefit of others you don't have to repeat it every time I mention that I think the evidence shows LA and Wiggins didn't dope this year.
You can leave Wiggo out of this one - but I would be interested to see your evidence on why LA didnt dope.
 
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BanProCycling said:
Hmmm. I don't mind this troll stuff, but it is a little bit distracting to the thread to keep on repeating it. You've made your views clear on that - for the benefit of others you don't have to repeat it every time I mention that I think the evidence shows LA and Wiggins didn't dope this year.
I would think that you would be grateful that someone appreciates your trollkraft as much as do I. I mean, it is REALLY good.
 

Dr. Maserati

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BanProCycling said:
Well I'm not paying for it so I don't care about how much it costs. The point JV is making is that it is a major step forward that will improve with time. He's right.

It's a verbal interview - I think he is saying that he doesn't like people trashing it and making out it makes no difference. Common sense instructs us to read through the lines.
Common sence would dictate that if you are unsure of something it is best to ask a direct question - so it is probably in yours (& definitley JV's) best interest to let JV answer for himself if he chooses to do so.

BanProCycling said:
I don't know if Contador doped - it wouldn't suprise me if he did - yet we now have a situation where we know almost for certain that the third and fourth place men didn't dope, so that's a major breakthrough in the Tour. I'm proud about that.
So this is BPC common sence - you say that we know "almost for certain" that the 3rd place rider was clean I would assume because of your faith in the Bio-Passport, yet you wouldnt be suprised if Contador and Schlek doped even though they would have been tested more by the same system - I am sure that makes sence.
 
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BanProCycling said:
I think there would have been more criticism of LA's blood values from credible sources it really did show signs of doping. So far nothing. From what I've seen only a few hatchet men with well known hatred for him on this forum have tried to poke holes in it with some nonsense about him changing numbers. Don't you think the French press would have a special report on that by now if there was anything in it? All that put together is the strongest evidence.

Also there was nothing about his performance that seemed super natural. He very much looked like a former champion who had spent three years out and was almost 38, and who probably hadn't got the periodization right this year due to his collar bone break. Still room for improvement next year! Can't wait.
You are a special troll. Special indeed.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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BanProCycling said:
I think there would have been more criticism of LA's blood values from credible sources it really did show signs of doping. So far nothing. From what I've seen only a few hatchet men with well known hatred for him on this forum have tried to poke holes in it with some nonsense about him changing numbers. Don't you think the French press would have a special report on that by now if there was anything in it? All that put together is the strongest evidence.

Also there was nothing about his performance that seemed super natural. He very much looked like a former champion who had spent three years out and was almost 38, and who probably hadn't got the periodization right this year due to his collar bone break. Still room for improvement next year! Can't wait.
yawn :rolleyes:
 
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BanProCycling said:
This is why. It's very hard for the authorities to take action against riders because there numbers are slightly irregular, because they can't say for sure they have doped and therfore it would be unfair.l Those riders don't tend to release their numbers because they know people will smell a rate. Obviously the numbers can't be that out without action being taken, as we saw from a group of riders before the tour. However, here is the crucial bit. It is now much easier to see which riders are almost certainly clean. Wiggins and LA fall into that category.

This is progress.
yawn :rolleyes:
BanProCycling said:
Yes I am, but I'm think it might spoil threads for other people. They don't want the topic to always be about me.
yawn :rolleyes:
 

Dr. Maserati

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BanProCycling said:
This is why. It's very hard for the authorities to take action against riders because there numbers are slightly irregular, because they can't say for sure they have doped and therfore it would be unfair.l Those riders don't tend to release their numbers because they know people will smell a rate. Obviously the numbers can't be that out without action being taken, as we saw from a group of riders before the tour. However, here is the crucial bit. It is now much easier to see which riders are almost certainly clean. Wiggins and LA fall into that category.

This is progress.
Ah -so that why Lance got rid of Don Catlin - thanks for clearing that up....progress indeed.
 
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BanProCycling said:
Yes I am, but I'm think it might spoil threads for other people. They don't want the topic to always be about me.
What a great troll response! Freaking awesome! You are in rare form today!
 

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