Icarus Documentary (spoilers)

[roundabout]

Except for the "farmacista" Massi.

 

[bigcog]

Re: Icarus - documentary film

Has it ever been a case of someone talking without being caught?
The closest I can see are retired riders like Fignon, Rooks and others. But active riders?

In the 1997-1998 offseason Pascal Richard out of nowhere said to the press that members of the Telekom team had confided to him that Ullrich and Riis had tested positive at a training camp in Mallorca and the UCI had buried the positives.

And since it's an interesting story, I'll tell you how it panned out.

He and his team manager Vincent Lavenu were promptly summoned to a meeting with the UCI. After the meeting Richard said to the press that it wasn't actually true and he had made it all up for attention.

Immediately Lavenu and Richard's team called "Casino" proceeded to put in such a blatantly doped exhibition that even in the pre-Festina peloton other riders were calling it out as ridiculous. Several riders made cryptic references to how they had "friends" so they were allowed to run rampant.

They only toned it down when the Festina scandal happened in July. By that point they'd already won Tirreno, Amstel, Fleche and generally been at the front of every damned race they entered, with a squad that included zero guys who would be leaders on a big team.

They ended the year with 63 wins. The previous year with essentially the same squad they had 20, mostly stages of smaller stage races.

By the way, that team now goes by the name AG2R

AG2R interesting. The impression one is given of them is somewhat different now, wonder if they have really changed.

 

[iejeecee]

Re: Icarus - documentary film

What I don't understand is why the Russians had to dope everyone at the Sochi Olympics? According to Victor Conti all doping is done during training and the athletes stop well before the Olympics to ensure there is no trace of anything testable during the event. He referred to tests during the Olympics as
IQ tests, that only the stupid or poor would fail.

 

[jmdirt]

https://www.icarus.film/

Interesting, worth watching IMO. Crazy that doping still didn't make him a great armature racer, but then CRAZY that the Russian machine gets exposed (I didn't see that coming)!

Mods: I'm not sure if it worthy of its own thread, but I didn't see a good place to put it other than a few random references to it in other threads. Merge it if I missed a spot.

 

[MikeS369]

https://www.icarus.film/

Interesting, worth watching IMO. Crazy that doping still didn't make him a great armature racer, but then CRAZY that the Russian machine gets exposed (I didn't see that coming)!

Mods: I'm not sure if it worthy of its own thread, but I didn't see a good place to put it other than a few random references to it in other threads. Merge it if I missed a spot.

Doping did make him a stronger rider. The mechanicals he suffered did him in.

 

[Gigs_98]

Yeah, the way how the tone of this documentary changed completely shocked me.
It's absolutely worth watching, especially as we probably won't get to see a documentary like this ever again. This was basically a case where people didn't make a documentary about a doping scandal but where the documentary was in the middle of that doping scandal. It shows inside views which documentaries that are made after the truth is out simply cannot possibly show.
That said it still has some flaws and not everything said by the Russian guy should be taken for granted. I still think that every sport fan should watch it.

 

[Teddy Boom]

Mods: I'm not sure if it worthy of its own thread, but I didn't see a good place to put it other than a few random references to it in other threads. Merge it if I missed a spot.

Been talked about many times around here:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=33466

According to Fogel, he went from threshold power of 250W to 350W. I find that hard to believe, but here it is:
https://youtu.be/G0JDDdPp8-0?t=1213

 

[King Boonen]

Mod hat on:

I've merged the two threads.

 

[Zebadeedee]

"To repudiate morality while laying claim to it" is the very stuff of that sickening creep, Thomas Bach and his IOC.

 

[Aragon]

According to Fogel, he went from threshold power of 250W to 350W. I find that hard to believe, but here it is:
https://youtu.be/G0JDDdPp8-0?t=1213

Even when this type of anecdotal evidence is has always some issues, Christophe Bassons claims in his memoirs (p. 81) that he saw similar type of improvement in one of his Festina teammates after "[t]reatment with EPO, growth hormone and anabolic steroids":

At their best in 1998, my VO2 max at threshold reached 85.1 millilitres of oxygen per kilogram, while my power at threshold was 400 watts. An accumulation of training and competition enabled me to improve these figures by about 10 millilitres and 15 watts between the end of the holidays and the point where we were racing and training full-time
Yet, between December an May, one of my teammates managed to raise his Vo2Max at threshold from 65 to 91. His power output at threshold increased from 325 to 430 watts.