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Illegal Transfusion Kit - Astana - UCI ?

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Rock7586 said:
Strong information, wasn't the fax that turned the screws on Hamilton also talking about a insulin injection as part of the complete program.

A copy of that fax should be brought back to the thread.

Yes, apparently, though I don't read Spanish.

10110.15172.jpg


From the VeloNews article here: http://velonews.competitor.com/2006...ton-implicated-in-spanish-investigation_10110
 
May 20, 2010
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Squares said:
I see 2 possible answers.

1) perhaps the evidence didn't pan out and so it was dropped, or

2) Lance and Bruyneel are the most powerful men on earth. They are more powerful than the UCI, the French AFLD, the French judicial system, Alberto Contador, WADA, the USADA, CAS, the IOC, ASO, RCS, and all other sporting governing bodies.

They control everyone!!!

If you look around, most people who post on this board believe #2.

Don't believe me, look at how many posts will follow mine calling me a LA-bot and other derogatory things. They will attack me personally and call me names. They will rely on rumor and innuendo.

They will not, however, present any actual facts that demonstrate actual knowledge of the results of DNA testing and comparison to Lance, Alberto, and the rest of the Astana team.

Hear hear. Nice to see rational people posting.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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red_flanders said:
I don't understand the particulars of insulin use myself, but it's been repeatedly reported by those who have come forward about their use. Here are some articles outlining it:

From "How to catch an insulin-doping athlete"



From Bernhard Kohl:



From Jesus Manzano:



More:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2003/03/news/ask-the-doctor_3657 (this one is quite in-depth and informative)

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sports-supplements-insulin-abuse-subject-to-testing-36332

http://www.spinningpedals.net/2010/03/valverde-doping-and-the-sport-i-love/

It goes on, just google "insulin doping cycling" and sift through the one (fairly irrelevant) comment by FLandis which pollutes the top results.

Thanks Red!

Apparently if I read this right... they take insulin to become hypoglycemic, which creates an increas in growth harmone. Doing this before sleeping helps muscles recover, repair and rebuild.

That is DANGEROUS stuff. Hypoglycemia is no joke... and is nothing to play with. You literally CAN'T do this on your own... because at some point you'd mess up, drop too low on your blood sugar in your sleep and DIE. Someone has to be monitoring these guys as they sleep to make sure they don't go into the red.

Diabetes is one of the top 10 causes of death... and many of them come from low blood sugar reactions. These are people like me having to deal with low blood sugars over their entire lives... not cyclists or bodybuilders who haven't spent their entire lives learning how to deal with this sort of thing. Nobody would be able to do this on their own without some accidents.

Though I wonder if some "bonks" could be attributed to insulin mistakes the night before. If you drop your blood sugar too low... there can be physical reactions that last for several days even after correcting your blood sugar levels. Mainly EXTREME fatigue.
 
kurtinsc said:
Thanks Red!

Apparently if I read this right... they take insulin to become hypoglycemic, which creates an increas in growth harmone. Doing this before sleeping helps muscles recover, repair and rebuild.

That is DANGEROUS stuff. Hypoglycemia is no joke... and is nothing to play with. You literally CAN'T do this on your own... because at some point you'd mess up, drop too low on your blood sugar in your sleep and DIE. Someone has to be monitoring these guys as they sleep to make sure they don't go into the red.

Diabetes is one of the top 10 causes of death... and many of them come from low blood sugar reactions. These are people like me having to deal with low blood sugars over their entire lives... not cyclists or bodybuilders who haven't spent their entire lives learning how to deal with this sort of thing. Nobody would be able to do this on their own without some accidents.

Though I wonder if some "bonks" could be attributed to insulin mistakes the night before. If you drop your blood sugar too low... there can be physical reactions that last for several days even after correcting your blood sugar levels. Mainly EXTREME fatigue.

Could be. The evidence seems to indicate many athletes are doing it without any kind of monitoring. One article mentions the danger and the doctor says he's treated this problem, but as with all things doping, we don't know what they're really doing or how they're using it. We do see that enough of them are using it that they think it's effective.

I have not seen evidence of deaths, and I have seen evidence of un-monitored use.
 
May 25, 2010
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physician monitored doping and performance

Having been a national level road cyclist in the 1975 and 1976 season during the Lemond era and watching the devolution of the athletic spectacle and the exponential growth of medical knowledge and physiological tweaking, I find Pro cycling more and more show for pay just like any entertainment. Is it demanding and disciplined? Is it life threatening? Does it evoke strong emotion? Does it demand high tech innovation to keep ahead? Does it have precedent? It is a gladiator sport just like ancient Rome. Listen to even provincial Phil Liggett shout out how Lance is "more like a professional killer than a bike racer" and then glorifies him as "a true champion" with lots of fans and admirers amidst the severe accusations and innuendos and fake heroic podium buddies who test positive for poorly hidden medical programs from thinly veneered gynecological Spaniards and Belgian massage therapists. The evidence for this carnival and scherade is a mile deep and decades long. I love cycling and have done well as an honors level American medical physician in both emergency medicine and family medicine. All these posts are insightful in various ways, including the psychology of mythical sports legends and need for heros, even at all costs. I see the personal cost to the athletes, including wives and kids, and brain damage, and hips, and collarbones, and teammates bleeding out and turning into memorial stones on the side of the next stage race. Every idol demands a sacrifice, a lesser god that cannot save: I see fans on this forum make fun of each other and make fun of various athletes and directors and organizations. What do I feel? Sad for the mock serious races and megabucks that the events generate as the world fights and starves and competes. I feel angry because I do still seem to like fair play and racing. I feel afraid that people like Lance and Landis are common winners in the dark fame of a world not living in the Garden of Eden. I am glad that Garmin at least tries to rise above and do something noble. Maybe I am naive about that too but I believe in God; the rest require DNA evidence. Keep riding, but do it with a good heart and clean plasma. Aloha.
 
drtomiumb said:
Having been a national level road cyclist in the 1975 and 1976 season during the Lemond era and watching the devolution of the athletic spectacle and the exponential growth of medical knowledge and physiological tweaking, I find Pro cycling more and more show for pay just like any entertainment. Is it demanding and disciplined? Is it life threatening? Does it evoke strong emotion? Does it demand high tech innovation to keep ahead? Does it have precedent? It is a gladiator sport just like ancient Rome. Listen to even provincial Phil Liggett shout out how Lance is "more like a professional killer than a bike racer" and then glorifies him as "a true champion" with lots of fans and admirers amidst the severe accusations and innuendos and fake heroic podium buddies who test positive for poorly hidden medical programs from thinly veneered gynecological Spaniards and Belgian massage therapists. The evidence for this carnival and scherade is a mile deep and decades long. I love cycling and have done well as an honors level American medical physician in both emergency medicine and family medicine. All these posts are insightful in various ways, including the psychology of mythical sports legends and need for heros, even at all costs. I see the personal cost to the athletes, including wives and kids, and brain damage, and hips, and collarbones, and teammates bleeding out and turning into memorial stones on the side of the next stage race. Every idol demands a sacrifice, a lesser god that cannot save: I see fans on this forum make fun of each other and make fun of various athletes and directors and organizations. What do I feel? Sad for the mock serious races and megabucks that the events generate as the world fights and starves and competes. I feel angry because I do still seem to like fair play and racing. I feel afraid that people like Lance and Landis are common winners in the dark fame of a world not living in the Garden of Eden. I am glad that Garmin at least tries to rise above and do something noble. Maybe I am naive about that too but I believe in God; the rest require DNA evidence. Keep riding, but do it with a good heart and clean plasma. Aloha.

Hell of a good post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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drtomiumb said:
Having been a national level road cyclist in the 1975 and 1976 season during the Lemond era and watching the devolution of the athletic spectacle and the exponential growth of medical knowledge and physiological tweaking, I find Pro cycling more and more show for pay just like any entertainment. Is it demanding and disciplined? Is it life threatening? Does it evoke strong emotion? Does it demand high tech innovation to keep ahead? Does it have precedent? It is a gladiator sport just like ancient Rome. Listen to even provincial Phil Liggett shout out how Lance is "more like a professional killer than a bike racer" and then glorifies him as "a true champion" with lots of fans and admirers amidst the severe accusations and innuendos and fake heroic podium buddies who test positive for poorly hidden medical programs from thinly veneered gynecological Spaniards and Belgian massage therapists. The evidence for this carnival and scherade is a mile deep and decades long. I love cycling and have done well as an honors level American medical physician in both emergency medicine and family medicine. All these posts are insightful in various ways, including the psychology of mythical sports legends and need for heros, even at all costs. I see the personal cost to the athletes, including wives and kids, and brain damage, and hips, and collarbones, and teammates bleeding out and turning into memorial stones on the side of the next stage race. Every idol demands a sacrifice, a lesser god that cannot save: I see fans on this forum make fun of each other and make fun of various athletes and directors and organizations. What do I feel? Sad for the mock serious races and megabucks that the events generate as the world fights and starves and competes. I feel angry because I do still seem to like fair play and racing. I feel afraid that people like Lance and Landis are common winners in the dark fame of a world not living in the Garden of Eden. I am glad that Garmin at least tries to rise above and do something noble. Maybe I am naive about that too but I believe in God; the rest require DNA evidence. Keep riding, but do it with a good heart and clean plasma. Aloha.

Nicely written.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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drtomiumb said:
Having been a national level road cyclist in the 1975 and 1976 season during the Lemond era and watching the devolution of the athletic spectacle and the exponential growth of medical knowledge and physiological tweaking, I find Pro cycling more and more show for pay just like any entertainment. Is it demanding and disciplined? Is it life threatening? Does it evoke strong emotion? Does it demand high tech innovation to keep ahead? Does it have precedent? It is a gladiator sport just like ancient Rome. Listen to even provincial Phil Liggett shout out how Lance is "more like a professional killer than a bike racer" and then glorifies him as "a true champion" with lots of fans and admirers amidst the severe accusations and innuendos and fake heroic podium buddies who test positive for poorly hidden medical programs from thinly veneered gynecological Spaniards and Belgian massage therapists. The evidence for this carnival and scherade is a mile deep and decades long. I love cycling and have done well as an honors level American medical physician in both emergency medicine and family medicine. All these posts are insightful in various ways, including the psychology of mythical sports legends and need for heros, even at all costs. I see the personal cost to the athletes, including wives and kids, and brain damage, and hips, and collarbones, and teammates bleeding out and turning into memorial stones on the side of the next stage race. Every idol demands a sacrifice, a lesser god that cannot save: I see fans on this forum make fun of each other and make fun of various athletes and directors and organizations. What do I feel? Sad for the mock serious races and megabucks that the events generate as the world fights and starves and competes. I feel angry because I do still seem to like fair play and racing. I feel afraid that people like Lance and Landis are common winners in the dark fame of a world not living in the Garden of Eden. I am glad that Garmin at least tries to rise above and do something noble. Maybe I am naive about that too but I believe in God; the rest require DNA evidence. Keep riding, but do it with a good heart and clean plasma. Aloha.

A great post.

We need more deconstructing, 'big picture' thinkers like this before Fox News becomes the world, and the world becomes Fox News.
 
Squares said:
I see 2 possible answers.

1) perhaps the evidence didn't pan out and so it was dropped, or

2) Lance and Bruyneel are the most powerful men on earth. They are more powerful than the UCI, the French AFLD, the French judicial system, Alberto Contador, WADA, the USADA, CAS, the IOC, ASO, RCS, and all other sporting governing bodies.

They control everyone!!!

If you look around, most people who post on this board believe #2.

Don't believe me, look at how many posts will follow mine calling me a LA-bot and other derogatory things. They will attack me personally and call me names. They will rely on rumor and innuendo.

They will not, however, present any actual facts that demonstrate actual knowledge of the results of DNA testing and comparison to Lance, Alberto, and the rest of the Astana team.

Your #1 is one possibility.
Your #2 is asinine. I do not believe anyone here has claimed that Lance/Johann control anyone on your list other than the UCI (who they control only as long as the checks keep being sent).
You completely left out the most logical possibility (but then I am sure you meant to) that the whole situation is part of an ongoing French police investigation and they will not say anything until they either arrest those who they think have done something wrong or decide there is not enough evidence to go forward and close the investigation. Your last point about presenting facts about results of DNA testing is ludicrous, because no results have been made public. All anyone is doing at this point is speculating about what they think might happen. Of course those who feel that Lance/Johann is an ugly boil on the backside of pro cycling dream of the whole of the 7 riders and Johann being taken away in cuffs by the French police upon the first occasion that they are all in one place at the same time, while those who would want to have Lances love child (if that were possible) dream of.....well I'd rather not speculate what you dream of.:p
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Tour de France: OCLAESP investigation from 2009 still ongoing

"We realize that doping is similar in most successful cases to a new form of organized crime," he stated.

“First of all, you have a prescriber, the person who gives a doping protocol. It could be a doctor who lost his way. Then, the supplier of products, most commonly diverted drugs. That could be done via stolen products or forged prescriptions. Sometimes you have a provider, one who brings the goods ... Then a facilitator, because some things like blood transfusions cannot be done alone. And finally, someone who will help you monitor the parameters, making sure they are normal so that you may not be detected.”

With Interpol now involved in the current Floyd Landis enquiry, the OCLAESP investigation might tie in to the overall push to discover what exactly went on in the sport.
 

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Jun 16, 2009
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pedaling squares said:
Granted these investigations take time, but I'm still bumping this to see if anyone has learned of any updates on the 2009 Astana transfusion kit matter.


Any chance this I.T.K. inferno was the trigger to what is going on right now Doping country ... investigating traces of a platic bag in the boostered blood.
holmes.gif



'Alleges traces of a plasticizer in blood bags were found in rider’s blood sample'


Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...have-received-transfusions.aspx#ixzz117KOKAy6