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Immaturity will be Contador's downfall...

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Robert Merivel said:
Let me get this on the records from you.
What you are saying is that AC did not "defying team orders?" Forget all the other BS "Drivel" (if I may be so bold as to use a word that you seem fond of using habitually) in your post, are you saying that AC did not divide the team by his move?

Johan Bruyneel's plan for Tour de France

Stage 1:
Lance go out early and pray for rain. ( Do not work :( )

Stage 3:
Astana team A uses Columbia HighRoad to drop Astana team B. ( Works ! :D )

Stage 5:
See plan for Stage 3 but as George W. Bush always says "Fool me twice, err. Won't get fooled again ( Do not work :( )

Stage 7:
Armstrong wins, everyone else just shut-up and color ( Do not work :( )

many thanks to Element12 from justcycling
 
Chomsky said:
Listen to JB's interview today. he said he did not want AC attacking, that he wanted them to ride a slower tempo and let Nino go ahead, and that he disciplined AC in this mornings team meeting and expects it will not happen again.

If thats not enough listen to Levi, listen to Lance or listen to Eddie Merckyx. Regardless of what you think about LA AC's attack was classless and lacked honor.

Mindlessly hating someone does not make AC's actions suddenly right. Put your emotions away and ask what you would think of LA disobeyed team orders and attacked his teammates yesterday. I am sure you would be outraged.


ContadorclimbTDF7_709084_0.jpg


Helloooooooooooooooooo where art thou uncle Lance ?!!!!!! :D:D:D
 
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Chomsky said:
Armstrong joined the split not by choice but by luck and being alert. Contador attacked his teamates by choice in a situation where they could not attack back. When Eddie Merckyx comes out and said Contador's attack was wrong its a good indication it was not a good move.

Contador knew that his primary rivals left in the race were Levi, Lance and Kloeden. With distant rivals in Kreuziger, Schleck, VV, and Evans. He also knew if he attacked his teamates and closest rivals were defenseless and could not attack back. In a sense his attack was not only against team orders but showed poor character attacking defenseless competitors. That being said its only 20 seconds and in a way it makes up for the lucky break Armstrong got in stage 3. This race will come down to stage 15, 18 and 20. There is no reason for Contador or Levi or Lance to to attack their teamates in stage 15 unless the group thins out to bascially just them. They can ride tempo, then ride the ITT and let that sort people out the selection for Ventoux and then of there is still an issue let them fight it out on Ventoux. There was no need to attack each other yesterday and nor will there be a need until stage 18.

Merckx and LA are quite close. So I'd take anything Eddy had to say about this with a grain of salt. Delgado was stunned by Astana's actions in stage 3 as were many others. But JB's ok with anything LA does. If Astana had not worked in the break, I'd have different feelings.

Clearly, JB's favorite is LA. AC knows what he's up against. If he wins, he'll be all the more man for it when he signs with his new team.
 
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Chomsky said:
.

Now Lance's group in stage 3 being ordered to attack is a different question and a more legitimate question. Its a tactical question. What happened happened whther it was luck or smart riding. Lance was in a group with no GC people it was tactically beneficial to Astana gain him those seconds to make him seem a greater threat to other opponents.

You mean to position him as leader of the team?

What about LA trying to take yellow in the TTT? He was clearly driving as hard as he could. Would that have been beneficial to Astana.

LA fans are so hypocritical. Stage 3 was just smart riding right (it was until Astana starts working). TTT was just Astana going for it. LA didn't really want yellow did he? No matter how much pressure that would have put Astana under.

Contador shows some balls you all through a hissy fit. It's game on. Lets see if LA is man enough to take on AC.
 
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franciep10 said:
Oh shut up robert you're just sad that you're hero isn't in yellow, and attacking into a headwind is smart for a rider that is strong enough to execute it, because other riders are hesitant to follow which is what happened, this thread is supposed to be how immature contador is, but that was a savvy move by contador, he didn't go against JB plan to attack he distanced his rivals even more. And robert by the way I raced domestically for 9 years and been racing competitively, for 24 years so I have some experience on the matter. Don't be sore La has done much better than I have expected he's not good enough though.

He did go against team plans that can't even be argued when you have Johan even at the pre race interview talking about it today.How was it a savy move? The only riders that this move effected was his own teammates. Thats all. He wasn't countering an attack by Evans, and Sastre never moved from the back of the pack yesterday. The Lotto rider that was off the front has no GC hopes. Contador just gave an excuse why he attacked to cover the reason he wanted to leap frog over Lance to grab yellow. Specially when Johan after the stage was telling the guys to slow down so they DO NOT take yellow. SO that's why it makes Contador immature by going off the front he disregarded team orders To slow down, Not to get yellow, and to just cover attacks like they were anyway.

24 years of riding you should know that this stage wasn't anything more then for the GC guys to see what the others looked like. The fireworks talk is just media making the stage more meaningful then it is. Contador's move just showed he was not a team player. Kloden, Armstrong, and Leipheimer are the guys that can help Contador win. stunts like yesterday just makes those three not want to work for him and help each other.
 
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Zen Master said:
Johan Bruyneel's plan for Tour de France

Stage 1:
Lance go out early and pray for rain. ( Do not work :( )

Stage 3:
Astana team A uses Columbia HighRoad to drop Astana team B. ( Works ! :D )

Stage 5:
See plan for Stage 3 but as George W. Bush always says "Fool me twice, err. Won't get fooled again ( Do not work :( )

Stage 7:
Armstrong wins, everyone else just shut-up and color ( Do not work :( )

many thanks to Element12 from justcycling

Stage one: Tactical mistake by Johan sending Levi and Lance out early.
Stage 3: Riders not paying attention when told in radio that there is a wind direction change. Contador Not paying attention! Lance Paying attention. Why Astana helped Columbia? I don't know Johan made that call ask him.
Stage 5: Contador was paying attention and so was everyone else.
Stage 7: Team Director telling team to slow down NOt to get yellow. Jump on attacks control the front. Contador acts like 2 year old and rides off for 21 seconds on a easy portion of the climb to only really effect the standings of his team.
 
OK. Lets just assume Contador went against team plans. Who were those plans designed for? Definitely not Contador, but certainly Armstrong.
Let's then remember, that Contador's services were purchased to lead the team's GT team and it's bid for the Tour.
Then, along comes Lance, with his consilatory: "I'm coming back to raise cancer awareness and am happy to ride in support of Contador."

I'll admit to not having a clue as to the fine print in any contract LA holds with Astana, but he appears to be an unpaid (except for his massive appearance fees) guest on the team.

Now, I read that Contador got a dressing down for his attack, yesterday.

Well, pardon me for thinking that LA and JB are trying to "fix" the Tour win, by neutralising the one opponent he definitely cannot match.

Is this not just another example of trying to cheat your way to victory?
 
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Mellow Velo said:
OK. Lets just assume Contador went against team plans. Who were those plans designed for? Definitely not Contador, but certainly Armstrong.
Let's then remember, that Contador's services were purchased to lead the team's GT team and it's bid for the Tour.
Then, along comes Lance, with his consilatory: "I'm coming back to raise cancer awareness and am happy to ride in support of Contador."

I'll admit to not having a clue as to the fine print in any contract LA holds with Astana, but he appears to be an unpaid (except for his massive appearance fees) guest on the team.

Now, I read that Contador got a dressing down for his attack, yesterday.

Well, pardon me for thinking that LA and JB are trying to "fix" the Tour win, by neutralising the one opponent he definitely cannot match.

Is this not just another example of trying to cheat your way to victory?

Now its just speculation on your part that Lance and Johan are planning a Lance win. So I can understand that you think everything that team Astana does is for lance and, Nothing to do with controlling the race giving Team Astana an even better grip over the race. In 2006 is was a break away that Won the Race For Landis. A steriod helped break but a break. 2007 Contador was 3:10 off the lead of Rasmussen when he was handed the yellow. No way Contador in 07 could of made up 3:10 in a time trial or anything like that. The only way contador could of truely won in 07 is if Rasmussen fell twice had 4 bike changes and pretty much gave up like he did in 05 losing something like 6 plus minutes in that stage. Sastre didn't do much in 08 other then his very nice attack on Alpe Duez.

So with the last few tours of attacks and No team really controlling the lead group How would you defend against such attacks. Well, controll the peleton ride at a pace that is hard to attack and keep everyone behind you so if they want to win they have to attack. Plan your attacks to gain time on your main rivals and ride in defense of your time. How is that bad tactics?
 
Chomsky said:
Listen to JB's interview today. he said he did not want AC attacking, that he wanted them to ride a slower tempo and let Nino go ahead, and that he disciplined AC in this mornings team meeting and expects it will not happen again.

If thats not enough listen to Levi, listen to Lance or listen to Eddie Merckyx. Regardless of what you think about LA AC's attack was classless and lacked honor.

Mindlessly hating someone does not make AC's actions suddenly right. Put your emotions away and ask what you would think if LA disobeyed team orders and attacked his teammates yesterday. I am sure you would be outraged.

JB wanted to slow down the catch so someone from the break took the jersey. That's what happened. JB didn't want to initiate any attacks and that's what happened. Per JB's statement and my own observation, Contador counter-attacked the Silence Lotto riders surge and Evans multi-pronged opening attack. When Lance counter-attacked on mountain stages and left Heras to fend for himself was Lance attacking Heras or Ullrich? No difference in my book. Contador is the best stage racer in the world, bar none. To think that him putting 21 seconds on the likes of Sastre, Evans and the Schlecks is a bad thing strains credulity.

As I said before, if Lance can't handle the situation (with his hurt feelings) then he can drop out and focus on his noble charity work. Otherwise, he needs to stop whining in the press and pedal his bike. Tomorrow is a big day and Contador is going to need all of his lieutenants well rested and on the same page.
 
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dadoorsron said:
He did go against team plans that can't even be argued when you have Johan even at the pre race interview talking about it today.How was it a savy move? The only riders that this move effected was his own teammates. Thats all. He wasn't countering an attack by Evans, and Sastre never moved from the back of the pack yesterday. The Lotto rider that was off the front has no GC hopes. Contador just gave an excuse why he attacked to cover the reason he wanted to leap frog over Lance to grab yellow. Specially when Johan after the stage was telling the guys to slow down so they DO NOT take yellow. SO that's why it makes Contador immature by going off the front he disregarded team orders To slow down, Not to get yellow, and to just cover attacks like they were anyway.

24 years of riding you should know that this stage wasn't anything more then for the GC guys to see what the others looked like. The fireworks talk is just media making the stage more meaningful then it is. Contador's move just showed he was not a team player. Kloden, Armstrong, and Leipheimer are the guys that can help Contador win. stunts like yesterday just makes those three not want to work for him and help each other.

So you expect contador to sit on his *** and just let lance take control of this race, and he do nothing, It takes a true alpha-male to win the tour, lemond learned that in 1985, and that's why he won in 86. I was watching the tour with my father, who is the most knowledgeable person in relation to cycling that I know, he rode as a pro from 1972 and helped ocana in 73, and was a ds in the 80's and he was upset when nobody attacked in the headwind because he said modern riders are puss!es, when it comes to headwind on a climb and he said that it was a smart ride for contador.
 
Mellow Velo said:
OK. Lets just assume Contador went against team plans. Who were those plans designed for? Definitely not Contador, but certainly Armstrong.
Let's then remember, that Contador's services were purchased to lead the team's GT team and it's bid for the Tour.
Then, along comes Lance, with his consilatory: "I'm coming back to raise cancer awareness and am happy to ride in support of Contador."

I'll admit to not having a clue as to the fine print in any contract LA holds with Astana, but he appears to be an unpaid (except for his massive appearance fees) guest on the team.

Now, I read that Contador got a dressing down for his attack, yesterday.

Well, pardon me for thinking that LA and JB are trying to "fix" the Tour win, by neutralising the one opponent he definitely cannot match.

Is this not just another example of trying to cheat your way to victory?


amen my brotha, first cancer, no wait, giro, no wait, contador is the world's strongest rider, no wait, we'll see who's the strongest, no wait, interview before the Tour start "I'm here to win", no wait, 10 place TT finish.

I bet He'll even blame AC when he loses at Ventoux.
 
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dadoorsron said:
I know I'm keeping an eye on you

Evidently, so is the rest of fanboy nation. All I can say is that I am only one man, and I really must be striking a nerve because I can turn you all into howling monkeys with a single sentence in most cases. Its really quite fun.
 
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franciep10 said:
So you expect contador to sit on his *** and just let lance take control of this race, and he do nothing, It takes a true alpha-male to win the tour, lemond learned that in 1985, and that's why he won in 86. I was watching the tour with my father, who is the most knowledgeable person in relation to cycling that I know, he rode as a pro from 1972 and helped ocana in 73, and was a ds in the 80's and he was upset when nobody attacked in the headwind because he said modern riders are puss!es, when it comes to headwind on a climb and he said that it was a smart ride for contador.

Sure smart to take off on 4.7 percent grade to gain 21 seconds on your teammates that are working to control attacks. Plus go against the Best director the tour de france has ever seen. Yeah Contador has big balls and a small brian. This race wasn't won yesterday and contador's actions did more to hurt himself then help. Hopefully the rest of his teammates can look past childish actions and actually do what he is told. stage 7 with two more weeks of racing isn't going to win you a race!
 
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Thoughtforfood said:
Evidently, so is the rest of fanboy nation. All I can say is that I am only one man, and I really must be striking a nerve because I can turn you all into howling monkeys with a single sentence in most cases. Its really quite fun.

LOL, I like your opinions! That's why we are on the forums to give are opinions and debate topics.
 
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BroDeal said:
Jeebus. I get back from a ride and find that Robert the Muppet is back. Did he finally awake from the coma he fell into after Contador dropped Armstrong?

Dang, that was one long ride. I only knocked out an hour and a half (got my daughter this weekend, so gotta conserve time). You did what 4 hours or so?
 
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dadoorsron said:
LOL, I like your opinions! That's why we are on the forums to give are opinions and debate topics.

Cool, lets just disagree respectfully then because that is really more interesting to me anyway.
 
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dadoorsron said:
Sure smart to take off on 4.7 percent grade to gain 21 seconds on your teammates that are working to control attacks. Plus go against the Best director the tour de france has ever seen. Yeah Contador has big balls and a small brian. This race wasn't won yesterday and contador's actions did more to hurt himself then help. Hopefully the rest of his teammates can look past childish actions and actually do what he is told. stage 7 with two more weeks of racing isn't going to win you a race!

Rules are for the interpretetion of the wise and the obedience of the f;)oolish