Re: Re:
"We" have the knowledge to do … you have to choose. Because "what Moser and Conconi did" covers a lot.
Who is this we, though? Is it Panasonic? Clearly, from what is said, it isn’t. Isn’t it true that the ‘we’ referred to is the medical/scientific community in the Netherlands?
Is Van den Hoogenband even right to claim that the knowledge exists in the Netherlands? IIRC didn’t that other famous Dutch squad, PDM, claim that they imported the knowledge from Italy? Why didn’t they source it local, if it was there?
In 1985 Panasonic had fewer that two dozen riders. A blood bank, even a small private one, that’s surely going to have surplus capacity if it doesn’t have even two dozen users, no? So was this surplus capacity being sold on? To, oh, I don’t know, maybe a couple of football teams, another federation, whoever? Am I joining the right dots here?
Finally, if all this proves blood doping, please, please, please explain to me Van den Hoogenband’s stated position on the issue of doping given that this conversation allegedly proving Panasonic’s blood doping programme took place just weeks after the IOC had declared blood doping to be doping? Why is he publicly talking about doping when he’s publicly saying he’s against it and it isn’t needed? Wouldn’t that be the very definition of ironic?
Moser and Conconi did … the Hour record. Moser and Conconi did … lactate level measurements. Moser and Conconi did … some great work cooking spaghetti al dente.Tienus said:"We have the knowledge to do what Moser and Conconi did" is a quote from van den Hoogenband, the journalist put it on top of the article.
"We" have the knowledge to do … you have to choose. Because "what Moser and Conconi did" covers a lot.
Who is this we, though? Is it Panasonic? Clearly, from what is said, it isn’t. Isn’t it true that the ‘we’ referred to is the medical/scientific community in the Netherlands?
Is Van den Hoogenband even right to claim that the knowledge exists in the Netherlands? IIRC didn’t that other famous Dutch squad, PDM, claim that they imported the knowledge from Italy? Why didn’t they source it local, if it was there?
Not a particularly controversial statement given what we know about how sport in general and cycling in particular changed through the 80s and into the 90s.Tienus said:Hoogenband thinks that sport in general an cycling particularly make too little use of medical science.
I have already referenced economics as an inhibitor here, you on the other hand think that because a company selling hi-fis, VCRs and computers also had a biomed division that means that Peter Post had his own private blood bank, provided for him by Panasonic.Tienus said:He also complains about the lack of funding for the sport.
In 1985 Panasonic had fewer that two dozen riders. A blood bank, even a small private one, that’s surely going to have surplus capacity if it doesn’t have even two dozen users, no? So was this surplus capacity being sold on? To, oh, I don’t know, maybe a couple of football teams, another federation, whoever? Am I joining the right dots here?
Alanis Morissette has much to answer for.Tienus said:Ironically nowadays others complain for the lack of funding for doping control in the Netherlands.
He also appears to be an authority on football and judo and sawing bones.Tienus said:In the article vd Hoogenband is called an authority in cycling since eight years which means he was involved in the 70's.
Ah, topical interest, temporal coincidence, geographic proximity. Men have been hung for less. And hung themselves using less.Tienus said:Harm Kuipers was also doing his thing at the university of Maastricht. I allready posted this article in which you can read he has knowledge and interest in transfusions in 1976.
"I’ll know it when I smell it."Tienus said:Harm Kuipers speed skating career just smells like transfusions.
Oh FFS, is this now going to be a thing, is this now going to be evidence? "They’ve deleted the evidence! They’re guilty!"Tienus said:These two guys have got all links to panasonic deleted from google history.
You said that (and I’ll quote): "He thinks Bert Oosterbosch is a likely candidate in his squad for the hour record." Now, the actual quote having been put in front of people, you’re accepting that Van den Hoogenband was just making a point, wasn’t actually saying he thought Bert Oosterbosh a likely candidate for the hour? Do you have to be challenged in a similar fashion on everything or is there any chance of you getting it right first time in future?Tienus said:There was never the intention to let Oosterbosch make an attemp on the hour record. It was only a suggestion from van den Hoogenband to make his point. I mentioned Oosterbosch because he is considered one of the first epo death.
Finally, if all this proves blood doping, please, please, please explain to me Van den Hoogenband’s stated position on the issue of doping given that this conversation allegedly proving Panasonic’s blood doping programme took place just weeks after the IOC had declared blood doping to be doping? Why is he publicly talking about doping when he’s publicly saying he’s against it and it isn’t needed? Wouldn’t that be the very definition of ironic?