Independent observers at the TdF: UCI/WADA Agreement

[Kodiak]

that would be what I'd like. Thinking that you're helping the sport by going after something that happened years ago won't do any good. stop those doing it now and move on.[/QUOTE]

Alot of people currently profitting from the sport would like nothing but that. That only quietly maintains the status quo surrounding the riders. In reality I think that makes the riders the final sacrifice while the Facilitators continue on and think of new ways to defraud the system. You need to pull the dead rat out of the wall to stop the stink.

no matter what you do there will always be the human response to try and cheat the system. It's in every "professional" sport out there. short of locking them in a box until it's time to put them on display you'll never remove the oportunity.

 

[Beech Mtn]

AFLD will NOT be permitted to conduct any tests at the tour, unless UCI fail to stick to the wada agreement.

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/News-Cen...equest-to-Conduct-Additional-Testing-at-Tour/

The UCI find another legal block to keep testing in house.

Although reading it in detail, it appears that if the afld tell wada they want someone tested, and give a reasonable reason why, wada will tell uci to test them and accompany them

only testing for epo and hgh though, so its all rather pointless

Some interesting details in the pdf that is linked from your link. Thanks for posting that. AFLD's testing claims were based on targeting riders due to info they had gotten from the police and were forbidden to share with UCI. Hmm.

 

[Anonymous]

Some interesting details in the pdf that is linked from your link. Thanks for posting that. AFLD's testing claims were based on targeting riders due to info they had gotten from the police and were forbidden to share with UCI. Hmm.

Yup.. its worth reading it very closely.

My reading is, AFLD wanted to do 60 tests based on information from police etc, that they didnt want the UCI knowing about (cos they dont trust them)?

The UCI have said they dont want the afld there but if the afld want to tell them the information they will act on it.

Wada have said, tell you what, afld you give us the information and we will make the UCI test whatever riders you want.

Wada have told the UCI if they dont like it and play by the rules then they will let the AFLD do testing.

In other worse, the UCI's role at the tour de france seems to be to do what WADA and the AFLD tell them to do.

Its just a shame they only test for the two things. I think we might see a couple of withdrawals based on that report.. Basically, WADA are in charge

 

[Anonymous]

question is, do wada know what information the afld have? and if they do, does that mean they think the uci is complicit in hiding things

That document gets more interesting the more i read it.

If the afld give info to wada about a test they want doing, wada will inform the uci and ask the uci to send a tester to meet up with their representative, but the tester will not be told in advance who they are testing. Holy cow. The UCI really are on the rack

 

[B.Rasmussen]

Thanks for the links, Dim. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but from the snippets on your twitter it seems like WADA just told the UCI that they don't trust them.

 

[Anonymous]

The key bits: as not everyone can view pdf's
Full document as a pdf here

On May 12, 2010, AFLD requested the authorization from UCI to conduct approximately 60 additional tests during the 2010 Edition of the Tour de France

a. AFLD claims that it should be authorized to conduct additional testing, given that it has access to confidential information from police and customs that it cannot share with other organizations. Such information will allow AFLD to target test specific riders during the Tour de France but will not be available directly to UCI because of legal issues.
b. AFLD is ready to cooperate with UCI to avoid the inconvenience of having two entities testing at one single event.
c. AFLD raises concerns about UCI conducting unannounced testing.

UCI presents its testing plan for the 2010 Tour de France, and argues that this plan is comprehensive and can be adapted based on the needs.

f. UCI raises logistical issues in relation to having two organizations testing at the same event.
g. UCI also raises the issue of the French anti-doping law not being fully Code compliant, and the issue of having a decision rendered in France which will have to be recognized later on by UCI, and which potentially could be in contradiction, given that the final appeal in France is to the State Council and the final appeal under the Code is to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).
h. On that basis, UCI refuses to grant permission to AFLD to conduct testing.

15- WADA understands that AFLD has intelligence from the French police and customs which could be useful to target test riders during the tour.

16- WADA signed a confidentiality agreement under which AFLD is able to share some of this information with WADA.

21- WADA does not speculate on the unannounced nature of UCI tests but considers that it is of primary importance that all tests be conducted in total transparency and thereby avoid any subsequent criticism of being pre-warned.

Decision
22-WADA does not give permission to AFLD to conduct additional testing at the Tour de France. This resolution is however subject to the following conditions:

a) Because of the acceptance of UCI to conduct extra testing if information warrants it, WADA requires of AFLD to be informed of any target test that it might suggest be conducted as a result of the receipt of confidential information.

b) Upon receipt of this information, and after evaluation of the background information related to such request, WADA will pass such request to its Independent Observer (IO) team present on site during the Tour de France in order to appropriately manage the issue of confidentiality, and for the IO team to pass it on to UCI as follows :

i. The IO team will ask a UCI doping control officer (DCO) to conduct the specific target testing mission(s) by first contacting the UCI designated DCO and agreeing on a place and time to meet.
ii. A representative of the WADA IO team will then go with the UCI DCO and the UCI chaperone to collect the sample.
iii. The WADA IO team representative will only inform the UCI DCO and UCI chaperone of the name of the rider at the appropriate time in accordance with its own appreciation of the circumstances.
iv. There should be no communication to any external parties from the UCI DCO and the UCI chaperone from the time they meet the WADA IO team representative until the mission is fully completed.
v. All samples collected during these missions should be analysed for EPO and hgH.
c) If for whatever reason(s) the above mentioned conditions are not acceptable to UCI, or are not respected during the Tour de France, WADA will grant the AFLD the permission to perform such tests itself.

 

[Oldman]

question is, do wada know what information the afld have? and if they do, does that mean they think the uci is complicit in hiding things

That document gets more interesting the more i read it.

If the afld give info to wada about a test they want doing, wada will inform the uci and ask the uci to send a tester to meet up with their representative, but the tester will not be told in advance who they are testing. Holy cow. The UCI really are on the rack

This is the twist necessary to keep this race more transparent. Hopefully the pressure can be kept on the UCI to continue event testing that is reviewed by another agency with the authority to release the information to National Federations for action. Could we count on this relationship continuing to the Vuelta and World's? If so there could be an entertaining change in the podium guard for each event.

 

[Barrus]

question is, do wada know what information the afld have? and if they do, does that mean they think the uci is complicit in hiding things

That document gets more interesting the more i read it.

If the afld give info to wada about a test they want doing, wada will inform the uci and ask the uci to send a tester to meet up with their representative, but the tester will not be told in advance who they are testing. Holy cow. The UCI really are on the rack

I read it a bit differently, in my mind they do not think the uci is complicit in hiding things, but more likely think the uci is complicit in giving priviliged information to riders, so that they could get away with doping, by knowing the test times and places

 

[Anonymous]

I read it a bit differently, in my mind they do not think the uci is complicit in hiding things, but more likely think the uci is complicit in giving priviliged information to riders, so that they could get away with doping, by knowing the test times and places

well yeh, i meant hiding in a general term, i could have worded it better. I agree with you, it certainly seems that way. This is a really interesting move from wada and afld

 

[Barrus]

well yeh, i meant hiding in a general term, i could have worded it better. I agree with you, it certainly seems that way. This is a really interesting move from wada and afld

In my mind it's especially interesting from WADA, as apparently they give credence to the scpeticism of AFLD, which means that WADA does not trust McQuads merry band at the UCI either. I wonder what reason they have for this

 

[Anonymous]

In my mind it's especially interesting from WADA, as apparently they give credence to the scpeticism of AFLD, which means that WADA does not trust McQuads merry band at the UCI either. I wonder what reason they have for this

well, they are hiding it behind "the afld have information the uci dont, and its confidential so we cant tell them so thats why we wont be telling them who the surprise tests are on"

 

[python]

i think i know why

the way i see the wada resolution document, it boils down to the uci concern that the French ad law ‘is not fully code compliant‘.

what does that mean ?

there is no explanation in the pdf but perhaps the clue can be found in the only two substances they will test for: epo and hgh - both have extremely short half life and when properly micro dosed and administered intravenously(as floyd told us) they completely vanish from the system within several hours and can not be detected under the normal ‘code’ rules for scheduling testers.

i don’t really know by my educated guess is - the key to catching a sophisticated user would be 2-3 completely unannounced back-to-back tests spaced by 3-4 hours including if required a late night or earlier morning visit.

if memory serves, wada rules prohibit visits earlier than 6am and later then 9 or 10 pm.

but if a criminal investigation is on, particularly if the syringes contained epo and hgh, i guess french police under french law can pull you out of bed anytime provided there is a judicial permit.

does it make sense ?

 

[Oldman]

In my mind it's especially interesting from WADA, as apparently they give credence to the scpeticism of AFLD, which means that WADA does not trust McQuads merry band at the UCI either. I wonder what reason they have for this

The targeted testing for HgH and Epo (I'm sure that's for any similar product) narrows things too much. I didn't see any retroactive testing authority so the end product may not be as monumental as many hoped. Either way, team DS will need to be on the lookout for groups of people headed toward their star riders, containers in hand.

 

[Anonymous]

the way i see the wada resolution document, it boils down to the uci concern that the French ad law ‘is not fully code compliant‘.

snip

does it make sense ?

Yes, that makes sense.

I also agree with your theory that 3 or 4 tests in a day. they requested 60 tests, and are basing some of this on confidential police information. 60 tests is a lot if they only plan doing a rider once or twice. Thats 30+ riders that they have info on. On the other hand, if it was only 2 or 3 riders, 20 tests across the tour, that would make much more sense. If its lance, he is going to get mighty ****ed off. Although i think its important we dont get distracted by the lance/landis situation, it could be any riders that the afld want targetted.

My personal thought is that wada have a fairly good idea of who the afld want to target. There are worries that the afld system may not be strong enough to get a conviction and someone with a decent lawyer could get out of, so wada have created a pretty clever situation where the uci will do afld's testing for them. Its a genuis move, and the UCI have been completely and utterly checkmated.

I think the afld will be happy with the situation, in a way they have got far more than they asked for. They just wanted to test, and any results they got would be questioned by the uci, discredited as witch hunts by riders. They have come out of this very well indeed.

 

[Polish]

Lance has been tested by the AFLD plenty of times - this year and last year.
And as recently as yesterday. SSDD.

But still....

Lance is being investigated by G-Men back in the USA.

Also, the French Police now have him under surveillance and are already
sifting through his Hotel Garbage.

But he is STILL doping. Doping to the Gills lol.

C'mon, the guy deserves SOMES points for GUMPTION at least!

 

[Anonymous]

Lance has been tested by the AFLD plenty of times - this year and last year.
And as recently as yesterday. SSDD.

yeh, but yesterdays afld test wont be any use as they turned up at the same time as the "unnanounced" [ahem] uci tester.

 

[Beech Mtn]

<snipped>

All samples collected during these missions should be analysed for EPO and hgH.

I took this part of the WADA resolution not to mean that the samples would only be tested for EPO and HGH, but rather that all samples would be tested for EPO and HGH in addition to whatever other testing would be done.

It's my understanding that the EPO test is expensive, and is not always performed on every sample. (Someone correct me if this is wrong.) I took the WADA resolution to be indicative of the fact that AFLD/police are targeting certain riders for these specific substances. Therefore every sample tested at AFLD's request was to include these particular tests.

That way the UCI couldn't get away with only doing a basic, cheapo test on favored teams/riders, while performing the more damning tests on riders they would be less averse to catching. They couldn't decide to test a favored team for only drugs that are obsolete and nobody uses these days, ignoring the more important tests, and then being able to say that the samples were "clean."

 

[Polish]

yeh, but yesterdays afld test wont be any use as they turned up at the same time as the "unnanounced" [ahem] uci tester.

Maybe the AFLD told the UCI to do THAT test?

Anyway, when Lance finally does get caught, he will sneer at the coppers and say...."I've been expecting you....what took you so long?"

 

[Anonymous]

I took this part of the WADA resolution not to mean that the samples would only be tested for EPO and HGH, but rather that all samples would be tested for EPO and HGH in addition to whatever other testing would be done.

It's my understanding that the EPO test is expensive, and is not always performed on every sample. (Someone correct me if this is wrong.) I took the WADA resolution to be indicative of the fact that AFLD/police are targeting certain riders for these specific substances. Therefore every sample tested at AFLD's request was to include these particular tests.

That way the UCI couldn't get away with only doing a basic, cheapo test on favored teams/riders, while performing the more damning tests on riders they would be less averse to catching. They couldn't decide to test a favored team for only drugs that are obsolete and nobody uses these days, ignoring the more important tests, and then being able to say that the samples passed the tests.

Makes sense, there is so much between the lines in that document.. It also becomes more obvious that wada already have the shared information from afld. It sounds like these tests will happen, not that they may happen. I do love the way they refer to them as "missions"

suggestion been raised on twitter than some of this "evidence" may relate to the gendarmeries possession of syringes etc from last year.

 

[Kender]

yeh, but yesterdays afld test wont be any use as they turned up at the same time as the "unnanounced" [ahem] uci tester.

they both probably saw lance tweet that he was heading for the pyrenees. they'd have known what motel he was staying at as he'd have had to declare his whereabouts. they were waiting there for him 3 hours after LA tweeted

 

[thehog]

they both probably saw lance tweet that he was heading for the pyrenees. they'd have known what motel he was staying at as he'd have had to declare his whereabouts. they were waiting there for him 3 hours after LA tweeted

"For the record - I don't mind the controls. Part of the game. Test me anytime, anywhere, result will always be the same, nothing to find. "

- Important to note what they AFLD are doing. They did the same with Ricco. At this point they are not looking for EPO or anything else..

They are obtaining his markers. They are trying to set a trap on this one.

The UCI are mearly following because they know that the need to follow the AFLD around now. They cannot leave the AFLD to do the testing on their own.

You get what I'm saying? Later on AFLD says positive UCI says not.

 

[Anonymous]

"For the record - I don't mind the controls. Part of the game. Test me anytime, anywhere, result will always be the same, nothing to find. "

- Important to note what they AFLD are doing. They did the same with Ricco. At this point they are not looking for EPO or anything else..

They are obtaining his markers. They are trying to set a trap on this one.

The UCI are mearly following because they know that the need to follow the AFLD around now. They cannot leave the AFLD to do the testing on their own.

You get what I'm saying? Later on AFLD says positive UCI says not.

the difference is, all tour the uci are going to have to test who the afld/wada tell them to, and are not going to know who they are testing untili the tester meets up with the observer. they will be genuine surprise tests. (probably for the first time)

 

[Oldman]

I took this part of the WADA resolution not to mean that the samples would only be tested for EPO and HGH, but rather that all samples would be tested for EPO and HGH in addition to whatever other testing would be done.

It's my understanding that the EPO test is expensive, and is not always performed on every sample. (Someone correct me if this is wrong.) I took the WADA resolution to be indicative of the fact that AFLD/police are targeting certain riders for these specific substances. Therefore every sample tested at AFLD's request was to include these particular tests.

That way the UCI couldn't get away with only doing a basic, cheapo test on favored teams/riders, while performing the more damning tests on riders they would be less averse to catching. They couldn't decide to test a favored team for only drugs that are obsolete and nobody uses these days, ignoring the more important tests, and then being able to say that the samples were "clean."

This would be a great way to go and hopefully as suggested by smarter people, AFLD wants the hunt on for markers that can be retroactively tested. The doubts this will cast on rider's programs and the net effect is going to be interesting both during the race and after.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Tour de France dope tests 'flawed' says French agency

The head of the French anti-doping agency (AFLD) has questioned the credibility of the testing due to be done during this year's Tour de France.

 

[Kodiak]

Bordry still crying that wada want let him play................