Interesting piece on Livestrong

[L29205]

True, it's NOT about the bike, Polish, it's about the NEEDLE, the DOPE, the FRAUD and the LIE.

And the MONEY all of those provide.

 

[D-Queued]

And the MONEY all of those provide.

And all the things you can SPEND the money on

Lance Armstrong Uses More Water Than Anyone Else in the World

But, why would Lance care?

Why the Colorado River Doesn't Meet the Sea

because... Austin has entered into water supply contract agreements with the Lower Colorado River Authority

This is the river whose water is all sucked up by the house that Lance built

Dave.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

As I said earlier - it is rather unlikely that Mr. Armstrong or the LAF will jump in here and confirm it for our convenience.

But give me a few minutes and I will give you something for your consideration.

you guys took my post the wrong way. I was being sarcastic.

 

[flicker]

And all the things you can SPEND the money on

Lance Armstrong Uses More Water Than Anyone Else in the World

But, why would Lance care?

Why the Colorado River Doesn't Meet the Sea

because... Austin has entered into water supply contract agreements with the Lower Colorado River Authority

This is the river whose water is all sucked up by the house that Lance built

Dave.

Lance needs to take lots of showers.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Lance needs to take lots of showers.

But only when he is in France.

 

[Ferminal]

But only when he is in France.

Only if the coffee is adequate.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

To me that isn't the question.. I don't think its a matter of him being 'evil'. He is just totally self-serving and willing to push the limits on what he can get away with to a level that goes a long way beyond what most normal consciences would accept.

Regarding the 'evil' comment itself - there are so many examples of people carrying out actions much more evil than the ones listed - that by extension, it is entirely believable that Lance is capable of these actions that people have listed. I am not going invoke Godwin's Law to name some in this post (look it up - its pretty cool) and besides, you don't need to go that far to see that the owners of Ponzi schemes, drug barons, many politicians, etc are more than capable of this behavior.

What you missed from Milomans post is that no-one has suggested LA is evil -a doper yes, a fraud yes, evil no - so its a strawman to deflect from answering questions or addressing points raised, you can call it 'Milomans Law'.

Whats amusing about this is that (IMO) most here can understand Lances motivation to keep up the deceit and continue to lie.
What I cannot understand is the motivation of someone like Miloman - who tells us he is not a fan of LA and yet shows no objectivity, won't answer questions and their position is hypocritical.

 

[Archibald]

And all the things you can SPEND the money on

Lance Armstrong Uses More Water Than Anyone Else in the World

But, why would Lance care?

Why the Colorado River Doesn't Meet the Sea

because... Austin has entered into water supply contract agreements with the Lower Colorado River Authority

This is the river whose water is all sucked up by the house that Lance built

Dave.

it never ceases to amaze me *** edited by mod ***... they truly just don't get it
very sad...

 

[kurtinsc]

Where are you pulling these figures from?

100 people from Houston? There are less than 80 LAF employees, you seriously think they were all in Dublin?

No, but I think to put on a conference, with all the setup, planning meetings, contract signings and such, along with the speakers and panel members, it's reasonable to assume 100 TRIPS to Dublin would be paid for.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume people who were coming to speak paid there own way.

Again... I didn't go, and I don't know how many sessions they had... but the last 3 day conference I went to (a technical education conference) had 75 presenters, and another 100 employees of the hosting organization who weren't presenting there to help with other aspects of the conference.

If you want to suggest more realistic numbers for the big dublin conferences and the smaller events in Mexico, Italy, France, etc... by all means feel free. But the point is that most of these are transatlantic travel and one would assume some significant Livestrong presence was sent. It doesn't take that many flights to get to BIG expenses when doing that. 200 business class transatlantic flights = a million dollars. 650 economy class transatlantic flights = a million dollars. And for all I know they wrap up hotel and food expenses for employees on those trips in the general "travel" umbrella when reporting.


I'm NOT saying that's what happened. I have NO idea. As you've admitted, there's basically no way to tell where that money went. But you have to admit that doing that sort of thing DOES add significant travel cost, don't you?

I don't even think it's a particularly good idea to spend money on all these silly conferences. I just think the whole "they're spending a million dollars for Lance to fly around in a jet" is kind of ridiculous.

As for the cost... I just took what came up with google when I searched for "how much jet fuel to fly a G-5". It said 3000 pounds for the first hour and 2000 pounds for each hour in flight. I used the 2000 pound number. Forgive me if it was incorrect.

 

[thehog]

The arrangement was as follows..... a select few Livestrong employees who had arranged the event had their travel paid. The top brass minus Lance Armstrong was paid for. Lance received payment to race in the Tour of Ireland and also received payment from Livestrong to speak at the summit. Delegates had to pay their own way by their own foundations/organisations but food, beverages and a Livestrong goody bag was funded by Livestrong. There were also a small number of “Livestrong Travel Scholarships” places which went to a select few which was airfares and accommodation only. Now for the interesting part. The expenses for the travel came under “Programs” not travel in the accounts thus the 2 million stands. Lance received a double payment. One to ride and one to speak. From those who attended remarked Lance’s speech was dreadful. Off the cuff and not prepared. The opening speech from a 8 year old mispronounced Livestrong as “live” as in “live” bait not “live” as in living. In terms of the conference. The output was very poor. Not seen any follow up on the Livestrong site or anywhere else. Basically a junket for those who attended.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

What you missed from Milomans post is that no-one has suggested LA is evil -a doper yes, a fraud yes, evil no - so its a strawman to deflect from answering questions or addressing points raised, you can call it 'Milomans Law'.

Whats amusing about this is that (IMO) most here can understand Lances motivation to keep up the deceit and continue to lie.
What I cannot understand is the motivation of someone like Miloman - who tells us he is not a fan of LA and yet shows no objectivity, won't answer questions and their position is hypocritical.

At this point it is difficult to understand what the topic of the thread is. I thought it was about “Interesting piece on Livestrong” the OP says that Lance Armstrong has done more for good than Floyd Landis revelations (confession) ever will.

What it is now,,,is a debate about CN forum members and the main topic of discussion is how these couple of member or members does not have objectivity, can not answer questions and is a hypocrite. This could go on forever correct? Dr. - you and BB tried earlier yesterday to lump me in with this even when it was a sarcastic joke on my part. That just shows how easy some are at jumping the gun to label someone a fanboy, trollcraft, etc.

LAF will never live up to the charity it is seen as because the individual is bigger than the cause. Seems like when given the chance it is all about Lance and not about the charity. That should be opposite. In my opinion.

 

[9000ft]

Wow, every penny, every drop of water, every trip out the door, every drop of fuel, every facial expression, every word, every turn of the pedals so closely and expertly scrutinised, evaluated, and commented on by the hen house. What would all you girls do with your time is there was no "he who must not be named?"

 

[veganrob]

And all the things you can SPEND the money on

Lance Armstrong Uses More Water Than Anyone Else in the World

But, why would Lance care?

Why the Colorado River Doesn't Meet the Sea

because... Austin has entered into water supply contract agreements with the Lower Colorado River Authority

This is the river whose water is all sucked up by the house that Lance built

Dave.

That is a lot of freakin bubble baths for Lance****

 

[Hugh Januss]

Wow, every penny, every drop of water, every trip out the door, every drop of fuel, every facial expression, every word, every turn of the pedals so closely and expertly scrutinised, evaluated, and commented on by the hen house. What would all you girls do with your time is there was no "he who must not be named?"

And yet another loser chimes in to waste his time telling us we are all wasting our time talking about this stuff. Thank you for the pertinent and informed post, Speedwa.......uh I mean 9000ft.

 

[D-Queued]

... Now for the interesting part. The expenses for the travel came under “Programs” not travel in the accounts thus the 2 million stands. Lance received a double payment. One to ride and one to speak. ...

Of course it comes under 'program's. This is easy when the mission is 'awareness' which is simple code for Armstrong appearances.

And here we have the absolute unquestionable conflict of interests.

1. He 'profits' from his fees - and this is not openly disclosed
2. He gets to select the manner in which he travels and to have the organization pay for that travel with funds from charity donations - and this is not openly disclosed to the charity contributors
3. He gets to select which events he shows up for - and this is not openly disclosed

Any single one of these is a major conflict of interest.

These personal luxuries represent a significant portion of the charities expenses, and are not disclosed to potential contributors.

ALL of these arrangements should be managed by Board resolution - which should be openly disclosed - and/or by the executives of Livestrong. Their guidance should be what similar organizations provide (or not) to spokespeople (i.e. other charities of similar size with celebrity founders).

AND THIS POLICY SHOULD BE COMPLETELY DISCLOSED.

Lance should recuse himself at every opportunity - and possibly even step off the Board itself when he is receiving such a large personal benefit.

I had a Chairman once who had a really nice weekend that he tried to expense to the company. One Board meeting later and he had to support his own lifestyle.

This is how the real world handles it.

When they abuse their privilege and mix up business with personal - as in Bernie "inmate #56022-054" Ebbers - they go to jail.

Dave.

 

[Polish]

it never ceases to amaze me *** edited by mod ***... they truly just don't get it
very sad...


Last edited by Susan Westemeyer; Today at 14:33. Reason: managed to insult a whole nation.......

So which nation did archibunk insult?

Texas?

Maybe he is jealous that Texas has double the GNP of Australia...
YeeHaa

Although from a satellite they do look similiar.

 

[jimbob_in_co]

"Write about what you know..."

Robert Landry - President - $284,058
Hall Overall - CFO - $105,291
D Thomas Roane -Vice President - $137,042
A grand total $528k of their $622k wages is a good return as they raised $150million

Doug E. Ulman - President - $285,000
Betty S Otter-Nickerson - COO - $213,122
Philippe G. Hills - EVP Development - $293,200
Greg D.Lee - CFO - $162,942.
Morgan L. Binswanger - Chief of Staff - 191,935
John A. Miller - EVP Mission - $145,396
Melissa Douthit - EVP Advocacy & Engageme $124,010
Mona Patel - EVP People & Organisation - $119,193
Katherine A. McLane - Highly Compensated Employee- $114,060
Ronald A. Kolenic - Highly Compensated Employee - $109,212
Which comes in at $1,778,070 of the $4 million wage bill.

Given this is my first post here ("first time caller, long time listener, Mr. King, How are you?") I figured I'd address something on this forums about which I have some knowledge: working with the Lance Armstrong Foundation.

First off, this IS Armstrong's and Stapleton's show. They are calling the shots no matter who is listed as the CEO. This shift to 'focus on raising cancer awareness' baffles me. It is so vague and unmeasurable that it could mean anything. Case in point, they claim:

"over the course of only one year, the global cancer community of LIVESTRONG Commitment Makers has:

* Directly affected over 1.5 million lives through services, programs and trainings
* Indirectly affected over 200 million lives through education and awareness messages"

at

http://livestrongblog.org/2010/12/14/an-update-on-the-global-campaign/

I have no idea what criteria they used and how they can make such claims with a straight face.


As for some of the 'highly compensated' LAF Staff:

Doug Ulman, is a great guy, and three time cancer survivor. He and his family have put their money where there mouth is in terms of supporting cancer organizations. I think he truly believes in helping people who have been diagnosed with cancer. Also, I do think he is more politician than activist at this point and, like the rest of the Foundation, has lost sight of the forest for the trees.
I view him as teh "Zaphod Beeblebrox" of the Foundation.

Betty S Otter-Nickerson, truly a smart and no nonsense person. They really needed her drive and focus. Sadly, for whatever reason (choosing to leave or forced out) she left the organization in Spring 2010.

I've had dealings with several other people listed, and their main qualifications for getting hired at the LAF seem to be: a) they had cancer, survived it, and gain some small bit of WWW fame in 'blogging" about it, or b) plain old nepotism.

Item "b" goes for Chris Brewer (someone who has let the whole "livestrong" meme" go completely to his ego). Once a level headed guy, now lost in the 'wave of cancer/Lance awareness' that pays his salary.

"College" a complete knee-biting spiteful walking ego, at least he was when involved with the Foundation.

They have a HQ staff of cute, mostly clueless former sorority girls in their mid-20s to mid-30s who spend most of their days in self-worship, navel-gazing, and receiving a very respectable salary.

It did not used to be this way. "Comeback 2.0" took an organization of semi-respectable goals and achievement and drove them right off the road of reality over the "cliffs of insanity".

In final response to Polish's earlier comment about donations to the LAF dropping in 2006. THAT was mostly because they did everything in their power to all but unintentionally KILL their major cycling/fundraising events. (Handed the events off to an unqualified third party organizer, distance themselves from participants and have the cyclists ride thru the slums of Philly, LA and Denver? Complete insanity, especially when Lance blew off his 2006 event in Philly to go hang out on the sidelines at the Texas/OSU football game with his 'bromance' Matthew McConaughey in Columbus, OH)

 

[Barrus]

Interesting to hear your opinion jimbob. But I am intruiged, how did you come to join Livestrong and what is the reason you no longer wish to work their and that you no longer carry a warm heart towards the charity, or the circumstance that broke the camels back so to say.

I am really interested to hear what someone has to say who's been on both sides of the fence

 

[BotanyBay]

This shift to 'focus on raising cancer awareness' baffles me. It is so vague and unmeasurable that it could mean anything.

Precisely. The point of this was to make themselves immune from any and all accountability in the public eye. And it's serving its purpose right now as we speak. So if anyone tries to allege fraud or misrepresentation in regards to fund-raising, they can always go back and say "We never said we're about funding research". They can point to the lame PR stunt on the TDF final podium as an "awareness move that directly affected millions".

Clearly, the LAF is an organization that exists to hold events that raise money, so that they'll have the funds needed to hold more events that raise money (and so on):

 

[jimbob_in_co]

Interesting to hear your opinion jimbob. But I am intruiged, how did you come to join Livestrong and what is the reason you no longer wish to work their and that you no longer carry a warm heart towards the charity, or the circumstance that broke the camels back so to say.

I am really interested to hear what someone has to say who's been on both sides of the fence

Hey Barrus, I tried to respond via private message and either sent it twice or not at all. Newbie error and/or web browser compatibility issue. Let me know if you got it.

Botany Bay, you understand my view point very well.

 

[Barrus]

I got it and please understand that I did not want to put you on the spot or anything, but I was just interested

 

[TexPat]

Interesting to hear your opinion jimbob. But I am intruiged, how did you come to join Livestrong and what is the reason you no longer wish to work their and that you no longer carry a warm heart towards the charity, or the circumstance that broke the camels back so to say.

I am really interested to hear what someone has to say who's been on both sides of the fence

Shortly before I moved to NZ I met a then current employee of the LAF who said essentially the same thing as jimbob. I was completely caught off guard because I expected to get a lashing from the guy as soon as he found out my background, but instead he cornered me to tell me what he really thought of the foundation.
Probably just a disgruntled employee.

 

[BotanyBay]

Botany Bay, you understand my view point very well.

Thank you for sharing. Unfortunately, Lance is not alone in this kind of behavior. Most A-list celebrities have similar charitable foundations that bear their names. It allows them to get their friends and relatives on the payroll, and allows them to shelter a significant percentage of their own personal lifestyle choices from taxation. It also serves as a way to "stay relevant" in the media when you've otherwise "got no game" (such as retirement, between films, between albums/tours, etc).

In-between projects but still want to get press-hits? Go visit a hospital.

The scene above is very altruistic of Mr White. Or is it? Would he be there with no cameras present?

Odds of Lance visiting a hospital room of a little kid with no cameras or reporters present?: 0:1

 

[Hugh Januss]

So which nation did archibunk insult?

Texas?

Maybe he is jealous that Texas has double the GNP of Australia...
YeeHaa

Although from a satellite they do look similiar.

You mean they are both a vast wasteland only inhabited along the coastline?

 

[jimbob_in_co]

Shortly before I moved to NZ I met a then current employee of the LAF who said essentially the same thing as jimbob. I was completely caught off guard because I expected to get a lashing from the guy as soon as he found out my background, but instead he cornered me to tell me what he really thought of the foundation.
Probably just a disgruntled employee.

I was never an employee, just a sucker who gave a fair amount of my time and money. As for disgruntled, I'm guilty as charged.