Interesting piece on Livestrong

[thehog]

I can tell you that with most business trips, if you are invited (to speak at a conference for example, or if you're just a big name they want in attendance), you usually get your travel compensated by whoever is putting on the event. If you pay your way in (for an educational conference), you're paying your own way. I have no idea which type this was. It sounded like they invited politicians... if that was the case, I think the chances that the LAF paid their travel would be quite high.

True. But compensated in a private jet? Really? and the pay the rest of the attendees. I want to work for Livestrong. It's a rort.

The banking industry would blush at such excess. And you defend it? In a recession?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

NICE! You can go on forever like this correct?

Hey has anyone proved Lance Armstrong used Cancer to fly the Jet yet?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

No I can't. But you can't show that the increase in travel expenses was to pay for Lance's jet fuel either. It's an alternative explanation, not necessarily the correct one.

I can tell you that with most business trips, if you are invited (to speak at a conference for example, or if you're just a big name they want in attendance), you usually get your travel compensated by whoever is putting on the event. If you pay your way in (for an educational conference), you're paying your own way. I have no idea which type this was. It sounded like they invited politicians... if that was the case, I think the chances that the LAF paid their travel would be quite high.

I have no problem when you say that you do not know, as were are interpreting figures - but i don't see how you were able to make the following claims.

Well, another explanation would be that in 2008 they began setting up their (in my opinion misguided) "global cancer campaign", which apparently involved sending a large number of people to set up conferences in various places (Australia, Mexico, Italy, Monaco, France and Ireland). Apparently they also paid to bring people from other countries to those locations.

All these places for the 'Global campaign' coincided with races that LA went to and in most cases received large appearance fee's that he pocketed.
We know from his twitter that he went there by Private Jet.

Most of those invited came from other charities or organizations and in the same way if a member of Livestrong was invited they would have to pay there way.

 

[VeloCity]

That's anyone's guess. I'm less inclined to say character is at the heart of this; it's more likely desperation. After so much rejection, what did he have to lose? I will wait and see what Floyd has in store for us before I make up my mind.

Wait, so that he cheated and lied speaks to his character but it's "anyone's guess" what it says about a person's character when they voluntarily admit to said cheating and lying? Sorry, but that's just being arbitrarily selective to support a strawman.

 

[kurtinsc]

True. But compensated in a private jet? Really? and the pay the rest of the attendees. I want to work for Livestrong. It's a rort.

The banking industry would blush at such excess. And you defend it? In a recession?

Not saying your wrong... but is there some evidence about the whole private jet thing? That keeps coming up, but I haven't seen anything that actually indicates that happened.

I'm not saying it's not out there, but if it is I havent' seen it. Obviously he owns a private jet... that seems pretty clear. But unless you've seen something I haven't, the whole "fueling the private jet" thing is speculation.

I did a quick search for a business class ticket from Houston, Texas to Dublin Ireland... and got about 5000 dollars after taxes. If that was the average for people invited, and Livestrong paid for it, and there were 500 people... that's 2.5 million dollars. For economy class it's about 1500 dollars... which for 500 would be 750,000 dollars.

Obviously, I have no idea where or when they'd leave from (I just picked Houston because it's the last place I've flown to and I know they're IAH). The point is travel for a larger number of people isn't exactly cheap, even on regular airlines.

 

[BotanyBay]

NICE! You can go on forever like this correct?

Hey has anyone proved Lance Armstrong used Cancer to fly the Jet yet?

Sorry, I'm not a forensic accountant.

Nor do I have access to the financial records. Non-profits have to share a lot less than the general public assumes. But if you think Lance is burning his own money on the G-5's, you're ganja 'smokin.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

NICE! You can go on forever like this correct?

Hey has anyone proved Lance Armstrong used Cancer to fly the Jet yet?

As I said earlier - it is rather unlikely that Mr. Armstrong or the LAF will jump in here and confirm it for our convenience.

But give me a few minutes and I will give you something for your consideration.

 

[kurtinsc]

I have no problem when you say that you do not know, as were are interpreting figures - but i don't see how you were able to make the following claims.


All these places for the 'Global campaign' coincided with races that LA went to and in most cases received large appearance fee's that he pocketed.
We know from his twitter that he went there by Private Jet.

Most of those invited came from other charities or organizations and in the same way if a member of Livestrong was invited they would have to pay there way.

Well, their yearly report says they had conferences in the locations I mentioned. Unless it was a way of making a small meeting sound like a big deal, you're talking about a fair number of people necessary to put on a conference. The last technology education conference I went to had 60-70 people from the hosting organization running the thing (in addition to the hotel staff).

If you in fact host a conference in Mexico or Australia, I would assume you'd have to send a pretty sizeable number of people to Mexico or Australia. Do you think that's an unreasonable assumption?

As for paying for the delegates, perhaps the LAF didn't pay their travel. I can tell you that it would be odd if they paid their own way though. Perhaps their individual organizations paid for their travel. And anyone working for the LAF most definitely had their travel paid... to think someone would pay out of their own pocket to go to work is completely unrealistic.

There are going to be significant travel costs for hosting a 3-day conference in a country across the ocean. You ARE going to have to send a significant number of staff, and you most likely are going to pay for your speakers and panel members to come to the event... or they most likely wouldn't come. Do you really think it's unreasonable to assume there was a significant travel hit from hosting an event like this?

 

[ultimobici]

By the way, what is a Troll? I keep being called a “troll” and I don’t have the vaguest idea what that means?

A little helpfor you

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well, their yearly report says they had conferences in the locations I mentioned. Unless it was a way of making a small meeting sound like a big deal, you're talking about a fair number of people necessary to put on a conference. The last technology education conference I went to had 60-70 people from the hosting organization running the thing (in addition to the hotel staff).

If you in fact host a conference in Mexico or Australia, I would assume you'd have to send a pretty sizeable number of people to Mexico or Australia. Do you think that's an unreasonable assumption?

As for paying for the delegates, perhaps the LAF didn't pay their travel. I can tell you that it would be odd if they paid their own way though. Perhaps their individual organizations paid for their travel. And anyone working for the LAF most definitely had their travel paid... to think someone would pay out of their own pocket to go to work is completely unrealistic.

There are going to be significant travel costs for hosting a 3-day conference in a country across the ocean. You ARE going to have to send a significant number of staff, and you most likely are going to pay for your speakers and panel members to come to the event... or they most likely wouldn't come. Do you really think it's unreasonable to assume there was a significant travel hit from hosting an event like this?

You're getting the info from the Livestrong yearly reports?

What actually happened in Mexico or Australia or Monaco? What conference was on? Who went?

For the 'Global Conference' I would expect the LAF to pay for some of the keynote speakers who were not from other organisations -so that number would be small and certainly not explain the almost $2 million travel for 2009.

EDIT - Mexico conference? According to the man himself he got to meet the President of Mexico...... amazingly this coincided with Lance appearing at the start of the Tour of Mexico the next day. So I believe that covers the blue above "making a small meeting sound like a big deal".

 

[Hugh Januss]

Gotta admit it's a pretty good gig. Fly the private jet to Australia, turn over a spade full of dirt for a new cancer wing at the local hospital, bulls**t a couple local pols, charge LAF for the travel expenses, pocket the 2 mil appearance fee for the TDU, ride around Australia, fly home. Nice! Except for the going to hell when you die part.

 

[ultimobici]

Gotta admit it's a pretty good gig. Fly the private jet to Australia, turn over a spade full of dirt for a new cancer wing at the local hospital, bulls**t a couple local pols, charge LAF for the travel expenses, pocket the 2 mil appearance fee for the TDU, ride around Australia, fly home. Nice! Except for the going to hell when you die part.

You owe me a replacement keyboard!!

 

[MacRoadie]

Gotta admit it's a pretty good gig. Fly the private jet to Australia, turn over a spade full of dirt for a new cancer wing at the local hospital, bulls**t a couple local pols, charge LAF for the travel expenses, pocket the 2 mil appearance fee for the TDU, ride around Australia, fly home. Nice! Except for the going to hell when you die part.

Always with the "go to hell when you die part". You gotta lighten up and live baby!

Lance follows all the healthy lifestyle suggestions on livestrong.com and is gonna live forever, or at least long enough to raise awareness, of and find a cure for, hell.

 

[BotanyBay]

Gotta admit it's a pretty good gig. Fly the private jet to Australia, turn over a spade full of dirt for a new cancer wing at the local hospital, bulls**t a couple local pols, charge LAF for the travel expenses, pocket the 2 mil appearance fee for the TDU, ride around Australia, fly home. Nice! Except for the going to hell when you die part.

You forgot the part about rooting a few Australian hotties.

 

[miloman]

Well, their yearly report says they had conferences in the locations I mentioned. Unless it was a way of making a small meeting sound like a big deal, you're talking about a fair number of people necessary to put on a conference. The last technology education conference I went to had 60-70 people from the hosting organization running the thing (in addition to the hotel staff).

If you in fact host a conference in Mexico or Australia, I would assume you'd have to send a pretty sizeable number of people to Mexico or Australia. Do you think that's an unreasonable assumption?

As for paying for the delegates, perhaps the LAF didn't pay their travel. I can tell you that it would be odd if they paid their own way though. Perhaps their individual organizations paid for their travel. And anyone working for the LAF most definitely had their travel paid... to think someone would pay out of their own pocket to go to work is completely unrealistic.

There are going to be significant travel costs for hosting a 3-day conference in a country across the ocean. You ARE going to have to send a significant number of staff, and you most likely are going to pay for your speakers and panel members to come to the event... or they most likely wouldn't come. Do you really think it's unreasonable to assume there was a significant travel hit from hosting an event like this?

Your argument makes perfect sense . . . unless you think all things wrong with the world starts with Lance. It appears to be very difficult for some to entertain other, less nefarious explanations for things when “his” name enters the conversation. In my experience, you are right on

 

[D-Queued]

No, Lance partners with people.

If the LAF is any one person, it is Mr Ulman.
And Lance does NOT do the LAF accounting/deductions either.
And Lance does NOT hand pick the interns who are trolls here in the clinic lol.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/150/can-livestrong-survive-lance.html

Can you please include a picture with your reply this time?
They're cool! TIA

What does Ullman have to do with this?

If Lance doesn't hand pick the trolls, then does this Ullman character? Who really is in charge here?

Dave.

 

[thehog]

Not saying your wrong... but is there some evidence about the whole private jet thing? That keeps coming up, but I haven't seen anything that actually indicates that happened.

I'm not saying it's not out there, but if it is I havent' seen it. Obviously he owns a private jet... that seems pretty clear. But unless you've seen something I haven't, the whole "fueling the private jet" thing is speculation.

I did a quick search for a business class ticket from Houston, Texas to Dublin Ireland... and got about 5000 dollars after taxes. If that was the average for people invited, and Livestrong paid for it, and there were 500 people... that's 2.5 million dollars. For economy class it's about 1500 dollars... which for 500 would be 750,000 dollars.

Obviously, I have no idea where or when they'd leave from (I just picked Houston because it's the last place I've flown to and I know they're IAH). The point is travel for a larger number of people isn't exactly cheap, even on regular airlines.

You're reaching my friend. You almost want it to be true. I can safely assure you that no one, that's a big fat ZERO, people outside of Livestrong employees had their travelled paid for. So there still that big FAT 2 million big ones to account for.

Livestrong invited guests to each conference and asked them to pay.

 

[miloman]

You're reaching my friend. You almost want it to be true. I can safely assure you that no one, that's a big fat ZERO, people outside of Livestrong employees had their travelled paid for. So there still that big FAT 2 million big ones to account for.

Livestrong invited guests to each conference and asked them to pay.

Opinion or fact? Where is your corroboration? If it is your opinion, please clarify; if it is fact, produce the link or document supporting your assertions.

 

[kurtinsc]

You're reaching my friend. You almost want it to be true. I can safely assure you that no one, that's a big fat ZERO, people outside of Livestrong employees had their travelled paid for. So there still that big FAT 2 million big ones to account for.

Livestrong invited guests to each conference and asked them to pay.

YOu don't think the SPEAKERS and PANEL MEMBERS had their travel covered?

And how many livestrong employees traveled... and from where... and what class of ticket?

100 people from Houston round trip at an economy class would be 150,000. Business class would be 500,000 dollars. They also had events of some sort in other places during 2008 and 2009.

You seem to think the number comes entirely from jet fuel. Jet fuel costs around 6 dollars a gallon. A gallon of jet fuel weighs 6.8 pounds. An hour of flight in a G-5 burns 2000 pounds of jet fuel. So your talking about 566 hours of flight time for a million dollars... or 23 straight days of flying.

Air travel isn't that cheap... especially if you don't make employees fly coach. While fuel cost is one explanation for the added cost... travel to overseas events that didn't exist in prior years seems like another explanation. I fail to see how the jet fuel idea is more reasonable.

Both are possible... who really knows what happened. Maybe it's a combination of the two.

 

[Polish]

Livestrong invited guests to each conference and asked them to pay.

That must have SAVED the LAF a tidy sum.
See, you don't here about how Lance SAVES money for the LAF.
Cost Reduction. Frugal.

I bet Lance gave the guests "The Look" when demanding that they show up on time and pay their own way.

 

[BotanyBay]

Livestrong invited guests to each conference and asked them to pay.

Did they pay?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Opinion or fact? Where is your corroboration? If it is your opinion, please clarify; if it is fact, produce the link or document supporting your assertions.

So then it goes without saying that you can provide a link which documents all the folks that LAF flew to these shindigs.

 

[kurtinsc]

So then it goes without saying that you can provide a link which documents all the folks that LAF flew to these shindigs.

They might have also used the money to fund a space shuttle flight, or traveled to the center of the earth.

There could be a million "possible" places the travel budgent got spent. The only one some seem to be able to accept is "Oh, it was on Lance's jet fuel."

There has to be SOME reason for coming to that conclusion. The fact they hosted a large overseas conference and several other events IS actual evidence that they would have increased travel expense because of exactly those events. What's the reasoning for believing the jet fuel thing? I'm not saying it doesn't exist... I just don't know what it is.

 

[Martin318is]

I am guessing that milo sent the bulk of the reports...

Nope, you are quite wrong - but don't let that stop you.

Regarding knowing the forum regulars. Its hardly Rocket Surgery. You guys are on just about every topic here and your feelings on certain issues are not really very well hidden.

 

[thehog]

YOu don't think the SPEAKERS and PANEL MEMBERS had their travel covered?

And how many livestrong employees traveled... and from where... and what class of ticket?

100 people from Houston round trip at an economy class would be 150,000. Business class would be 500,000 dollars. They also had events of some sort in other places during 2008 and 2009.

You seem to think the number comes entirely from jet fuel. Jet fuel costs around 6 dollars a gallon. A gallon of jet fuel weighs 6.8 pounds. An hour of flight in a G-5 burns 2000 pounds of jet fuel. So your talking about 566 hours of flight time for a million dollars... or 23 straight days of flying.

Air travel isn't that cheap... especially if you don't make employees fly coach. While fuel cost is one explanation for the added cost... travel to overseas events that didn't exist in prior years seems like another explanation. I fail to see how the jet fuel idea is more reasonable.

Both are possible... who really knows what happened. Maybe it's a combination of the two.

I'm shocked. You really want this to be true. You want LiveStrong to use donations to fly 500 people to Dublin? You serious? Because that's better than Lear jet fuel?

You've truly lost the plot.

I do have a link but I'm going to draw it out.....