Interesting piece on Livestrong

[Anonymous]

An excellent overall post, BTW.

The beauty of the LAF fraud (on top of all the other fraud) is that no matter where in the world he wants to aim that G5, a hospital bed with a sick kid is always within a 15 minute radius of the airport. That recent trip down to Cabo? If he stops for 15 minutes to either talk about cancer or visits a kid, that trip is then "LAF Qualified". While he's off getting laid worldwide, he gets to grab credit for his tireless crusade against cancer.

He's been busy crusading his brains out.

Yea, a man who doesn't use his own money to help people in Haiti is someone I suspect blurs the line in his expenses written off for charity purposes. I do hope that he one day finds his mother in the vagina of one of his conquests. He sure seems dedicated to the search...

 

[miloman]

Well you just called yourself naive - as you were the one to bring up that Floyd should payback everyone and then give the rest to charity.No, you did not answer it, you bring up some BS about if the 'charity' is found to be a fraudulent which has nothing to do with anything.
If Lance is shown to have used PEDs then his legacy as a champion will be viewed as a fraud - things like his book will be viewed as fiction and people (like FFF contributors) might feel angered........ should Lance pay back those people in the same way you suggest Floyd does?

Don’t you recognize sarcasm? I don’t think for a minute Floyd will make good on any of his promises if and when he receives a settlement. That’s the point; Floyd can say anything he wants to make the story palatable, especially if he has little intention of following through. Who is going to make him pay up? The statement was used to illustrate the ridiculousness of Floyd’s appeal to the general public, “yes I lied then, but now I am sincere and will make up for all past misdeeds,” doesn’t ring true to me and I suspect a lot of other as well. You can try Armstrong and LAF in the court of public opinion, but they have yet to admit or be convicted of any wrong doing in or out of cycling. The same can’t be said for Floyd. Maybe you should take a break from your duties as the self-appointed judge and jury for everything Armstrong, you are losing your objectivity. By the way, what is a Troll? I keep being called a “troll” and I don’t have the vaguest idea what that means?

 

[Barrus]

Why do trolls always ask what it means to be a troll, they never seem to know, while everyone on the internet knows

What I find itneresting is that Armstrong is one of the few people who merged his identity with that of his foundation to the extend that he has. I think that if Armstrong would go to jail or is proven to be a fraud, the foundation would crumble and disolve

 

[Anonymous]

Why do trolls always ask what it means to be a troll, they never seem to know, while everyone on the internet knows

What I find itneresting is that Armstrong is one of the few people who merged his identity with that of his foundation to the extend that he has. I think that if Armstrong would go to jail or is proven to be a fraud, the foundation would crumble and disolve

Page 2 of the Necronomicatroll lists asking what a troll is to invoke the spirit of stupidity. Freaking Aleister Trolley just had to write that book...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I've still not seen the jet fuel thing proven, but aside from that the other examples aren't big issues. The LAF makes money from livestrong.com as well... they were given ownerhsip in demand from the deal that gave them the right to the livestrong name as well as lance. How big each stake is hasn't been released, but that is part of their fundraising. The rest is DEFINITELY a reflection on Lance, but not necessarily a reflection on the charity. As I said... I DON'T particularly like Lance, and I don't think his charity work is a defense for his actions. But I don't think the charity has been all bad either (though they are moving in a bad direction).
<snipped>

Do you really expect the LAF to diverge those details?
Fine if you are not going to be convinced unless there is proof (as there never will be) but I am sure you can see the amazing rise in both advertisng & travel for the years 2008 & 2009.


From the LAF 990s:
2003Travel $96,377 Advertising $190,675, of the Functional Expences $9,002,211.
2004Travel $385,868 Advertising $1,613,309, of the Functional Expences $16,892,214.
2005Travel $1,077,132 Advertising $3,024,372, of the Functional Expences $40,114,451.
2006Travel $1,053,169 Advertising $2,315,782, of the Functional Expences $38,446,145.
2007Travel $983,194 Advertising $2,027,711, of the Functional Expences $31,232,404.
2008Travel $1,479,473 Advertising $2,379,929 of the Functional Expences $34,084,449.
2009 Travel $1,922,995 Advertising $4,195,187 of the Functional Expences $35,284,215.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Page 2 of the Necronomicatroll lists asking what a troll is to invoke the spirit of stupidity. Freaking Aleister Trolley just had to write that book...

I thought it was H. P. Trollcraft...

 

[Polish]

I think that if Armstrong would go to jail or is proven to be a fraud, the foundation would crumble and disolve

Agree, and it goes to prove the point that the Charity depends on Lance.
Not vice versa.

All the Charity Riders and Runners who made those donations to LAF did so because of Lance. They do not care if a small percentage went to private jet fuel versus commercial jet fuel.

The big challenge facing the LAF is the decreasing awareness of Lance as he retires from the sport.

 

[VeloCity]

Don’t you recognize sarcasm? I don’t think for a minute Floyd will make good on any of his promises if and when he receives a settlement. That’s the point; Floyd can say anything he wants to make the story palatable, especially if he has little intention of following through. Who is going to make him pay up? The statement was used to illustrate the ridiculousness of Floyd’s appeal to the general public, “yes I lied then, but now I am sincere and will make up for all past misdeeds,” doesn’t ring true to me and I suspect a lot of other as well. You can try Armstrong and LAF in the court of public opinion, but they have yet to admit or be convicted of any wrong doing in or out of cycling. The same can’t be said for Floyd. Maybe you should take a break from your duties as the self-appointed judge and jury for everything Armstrong, you are losing your objectivity. By the way, what is a Troll? I keep being called a “troll” and I don’t have the vaguest idea what that means?

So we should wait before passing judgement on Armstrong but it's ok for you to prejudge Landis re: paying back FFF donors?

Maybe you should wait to see if Floyd does or doesn't first, otherwise you're just doing what you're accusing everyone else of doing, ie "losing your objectivity".

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Don’t you recognize sarcasm? I don’t think for a minute Floyd will make good on any of his promises if and when he receives a settlement. That’s the point; Floyd can say anything he wants to make the story palatable, especially if he has little intention of following through. Who is going to make him pay up? The statement was used to illustrate the ridiculousness of Floyd’s appeal to the general public, “yes I lied then, but now I am sincere and will make up for all past misdeeds,” doesn’t ring true to me and I suspect a lot of other as well. You can try Armstrong and LAF in the court of public opinion, but they have yet to admit or be convicted of any wrong doing in or out of cycling. The same can’t be said for Floyd. Maybe you should take a break from your duties as the self-appointed judge and jury for everything Armstrong, you are losing your objectivity. By the way, what is a Troll? I keep being called a “troll” and I don’t have the vaguest idea what that means?

Yet again a diversionary post to not answer my simple question.

Also - I have never called you a troll but if you wish to find out about them, try google.
No - I am not Judge & Jury, people reading these threads are. You present your side and I present mine, the difference is you cannot back up anything you say, which is not my concern.

 

[Anonymous]

I thought it was H. P. Trollcraft...

We were both wrong, it was Abdul Alhazretroll...I think Trollcraft and Trolley just translated parts.

 

[BotanyBay]

Agree, and it goes to prove the point that the Charity depends on Lance.
Not vice versa.

People get convicted of fraud, bank robbery, etc and go to prison. These people often have kids that rely on them. Do we all rise up and say "Wait, if we send this guy to jail, his family will fall apart?". No we don't.

Families can't be replaced, but there are many charities to pick-up the slack that will be left by the implosion of the LAF. Hopefully, people who adorn themselves with yellow bracelets will be kind enough to spend their dollars elsewhere in a charitable manner

You're seeking to lay your blame in places other than the golden boy himself. You attempt to demonize those who might interfere with his mighty cancer mission. Anyone but the true source of the blame.

You are a classic apologist enabler.

 

[kurtinsc]

Do you really expect the LAF to diverge those details?
Fine if you are not going to be convinced unless there is proof (as there never will be) but I am sure you can see the amazing rise in both advertisng & travel for the years 2008 & 2009.


From the LAF 990s:
2003Travel $96,377 Advertising $190,675, of the Functional Expences $9,002,211.
2004Travel $385,868 Advertising $1,613,309, of the Functional Expences $16,892,214.
2005Travel $1,077,132 Advertising $3,024,372, of the Functional Expences $40,114,451.
2006Travel $1,053,169 Advertising $2,315,782, of the Functional Expences $38,446,145.
2007Travel $983,194 Advertising $2,027,711, of the Functional Expences $31,232,404.
2008Travel $1,479,473 Advertising $2,379,929 of the Functional Expences $34,084,449.
2009 Travel $1,922,995 Advertising $4,195,187 of the Functional Expences $35,284,215.

Well, another explanation would be that in 2008 they began setting up their (in my opinion misguided) "global cancer campaign", which apparently involved sending a large number of people to set up conferences in various places (Australia, Mexico, Italy, Monaco, France and Ireland). Apparently they also paid to bring people from other countries to those locations.

 

[kurtinsc]

http://www.cancercare.org/

If you would open your eyes, you would see that much of what you write is ignorant (not an insult. I mean only that you are not informed, and in no way am denoting stupidity). There are plenty of charities that help cancer patients. The one above is much higher rated than LAF. BONUS: They don't have a .com funneling off money to support an jet set lifestyle for their founder.

Sorry, but you really need to research if you want to keep doing this. I worked for years with a cancer charity, and I assure you that they didn't have anyone flying around the world to raise "cancer awareness." Like I said, I am sure there have to be 10 or so people who became aware of cancer who were not so already since LAF made that their mission.

Sounds like a better alternative then the LAF. But that really wasn't the main point. All I'm trying to put forward (and I really didn't expect as much push back on this as I'm getting), is that Lance's misdeeds shouldn't impact views of the LAF... only the LAF's misdeeds should do that.

Yes, they use his name. His celebrity helps them raise funds. He shouldn't get bonus points for what they do to help people... and they shouldn't lose points for his misdeeds.

Judge the charity on their own merits. I'm not saying you'll come out with a positive outcome by doing that... I don't really know. It has seemed like a good charity to me, but I'll admit my knowledge comes from a few people with personal experience, their website and charity navigator. All I'm saying is you shouldn't bash the charity because you don't like the founder.

 

[miloman]

So we should wait before passing judgement on Armstrong but it's ok for you to prejudge Landis re: paying back FFF donors?
Maybe you should wait to see if Floyd does or doesn't first, otherwise you're just doing what you're accusing everyone else of doing, ie "losing your objectivity".

You missed my point. I am not prejudging Floyd. He had his day in court, so to speak, and he lost. He’s admitted to lying, bilking thousands of well meaning individuals out of nearly 2 million dollars, not to mention appearance fees and book proceeds. How do you honestly expect him to make good to all those who gave? It’s very nearly impossible. My observation was that past behavior often dictates future actions. Given Floyds past behavior, if you were going to place a wager, what would you bet will happen? I’ll accept what you said as constructive criticism. I don’t know for certain what Floyd will do in regards to FFF or his book etc., so I will not judge him in that regard. However, I feel more than comfortable with commenting on things that have already taken place and are a matter of public record. The record shows that he was able to justify lying to his family, the media, under oath, and to the public at large. He appears to be OK with putting his interest before others. Not the most noble of traits I am sure you would agree. But, I am open to the possibility that he is a new man and will put this behind him.

 

[Barrus]

oh my, this keeps getting better and better

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

....Families can't be replaced, but there are many charities to pick-up the slack that will be left by the implosion of the LAF. Hopefully, people who adorn themselves with yellow bracelets will be kind enough to spend their dollars elsewhere in a charitable manner.

I think that many people try to donate to LAF by buying Livestrong branded products. If the Livestrong.com deals with Demand are anything to go by, once people figure out how much goes to LAF for the brand rights and how much goes to Lance for the personal endorsement, they are going to feel very cheated. Some of them will stop donations of that kind because of it.

Like AussieGoddess says, that is the real problem with Lance's actions.

 

[Polish]

You're seeking to lay your blame in places other than the golden boy himself.

Who is blaming anybody?
The LAF has profited from Lance.
The LAF has depended on Lance.
What is this "blame" you speak of?

You attempt to demonize those who might interfere with his mighty cancer mission. Anyone but the true source of the blame.
You are a classic apologist enabler.

Again, who is demonizing anybody? And it is not "Lance's mighty cancer mission" lol. Greg Ulman and the rest of the LAF deserve the credit.
Lance is just the RockStar spokesmodel getting the attention for them.

 

[BotanyBay]

Who is blaming anybody?
The LAF has profited from Lance.
The LAF has depended on Lance.
What is this "blame" you speak of?



Again, who is demonizing anybody? And it is not "Lance's mighty cancer mission" lol. Greg Ulman and the rest of the LAF deserve the credit.
Lance is just the RockStar spokesmodel getting the attention for them.

You speak of the LAF as some entity that somehow sprang-up from the ground and decided to ask Lance if they could use his name.

The LAF is Lance.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well, another explanation would be that in 2008 they began setting up their (in my opinion misguided) "global cancer campaign", which apparently involved sending a large number of people to set up conferences in various places (Australia, Mexico, Italy, Monaco, France and Ireland). Apparently they also paid to bring people from other countries to those locations.

The Global Cancer campaign....... right at the same time as there are bike races, lucky Lance.

I have never read anywhere that "large numbers' went to Mexico Australia, Italy,Monaco, France??
The Global conference was in Ireland in 2009 - and was only announced in February of that year as it coincided with a race there (what luck) - can you show that the LAF were responsible for the travel for all these events?

 

[thehog]

The Global Cancer campaign....... right at the same time as there are bike races, lucky Lance.

I have never read anywhere that "large numbers' went to Mexico Australia, Italy,Monaco, France??
The Global conference was in Ireland in 2009 - and was only announced in February of that year as it coincided with a race there (what luck) - can you show that the LAF were responsible for the travel for all these events?

I remember those days fondly. Just me and Bono hanging out in the South of France talking about where Livestrong and One meet.

My god Bono loved his wine that night. Such good wine. Lovely drop.

It's such a big fight cancer. So much easier to fight with merlot and Bono.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Problems with Gates

Gates -vs- LAF.

Bill made his money a long time before the B&MGF began. They began that foundation as part of Bill's intention to give the vast majority of his wealth to charity. The foundation was started specifically to help figure out the best ways to do precisely that. They've done such a good job, Warren Buffet's already pledged the vast majority of his own fortune to the B&MGF.

Bill quit his career and became an advocate of charitable giving. He's been pestering the nation's wealthiest people to pledge at least half of their fortunes to charitable giving, and it's having a huge effect. Most of them are choosing to get on board.

In contrast, many celebrities start foundations more as a tax shelter and PR engine for themselves and their futures. When they don't have a red-carpet going to keep themselves relevant, they can always attend a foundation event to get press. I think Lance uses the LAF as an amplifier for his TDF celebrity status.

You skim over the details of what Gates is doing to contrast Gates with Armstrong.

The Gates Foundation is a Trojan Horse for the privatization/export of U.S. intellectual property regulation. That's the sales pitch the foundation uses to attract fellow rentier capitalists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rentier_capitalism

Gates is not benevolent. I consider Armstrong and Gates moral equivalents.

 

[Polish]

You speak of the LAF as some entity that somehow sprang-up from the ground and decided to ask Lance if they could use his name.

The LAF is Lance.

No, Lance partners with people.

If the LAF is any one person, it is Mr Ulman.
And Lance does NOT do the LAF accounting/deductions either.
And Lance does NOT hand pick the interns who are trolls here in the clinic lol.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/150/can-livestrong-survive-lance.html

Can you please include a picture with your reply this time?
They're cool! TIA

 

[VeloCity]

You missed my point. I am not prejudging Floyd. He had his day in court, so to speak, and he lost. He’s admitted to lying, bilking thousands of well meaning individuals out of nearly 2 million dollars, not to mention appearance fees and book proceeds. How do you honestly expect him to make good to all those who gave? It’s very nearly impossible. My observation was that past behavior often dictates future actions. Given Floyds past behavior, if you were going to place a wager, what would you bet will happen? I’ll accept what you said as constructive criticism. I don’t know for certain what Floyd will do in regards to FFF or his book etc., so I will not judge him in that regard. However, I feel more than comfortable with commenting on things that have already taken place and are a matter of public record. The record shows that he was able to justify lying to his family, the media, under oath, and to the public at large. He appears to be OK with putting his interest before others. Not the most noble of traits I am sure you would agree. But, I am open to the possibility that he is a new man and will put this behind him.

So what does voluntarily and very publicly owning up to cheating, lying, and defrauding people say about one's character? And if "past behavior often dictates future actions", what does voluntarily admitting to one's indiscretions suggest for what actions Landis might take in the future? Landis isn't dumb - he knew that he was opening himself up to all manner of potential legal challenges, lawsuits, etc, yet he still was willing to come clean. What does that say about his character?

 

[kurtinsc]

The Global Cancer campaign....... right at the same time as there are bike races, lucky Lance.

I have never read anywhere that "large numbers' went to Mexico Australia, Italy,Monaco, France??
The Global conference was in Ireland in 2009 - and was only announced in February of that year as it coincided with a race there (what luck) - can you show that the LAF were responsible for the travel for all these events?

No I can't. But you can't show that the increase in travel expenses was to pay for Lance's jet fuel either. It's an alternative explanation, not necessarily the correct one.

I can tell you that with most business trips, if you are invited (to speak at a conference for example, or if you're just a big name they want in attendance), you usually get your travel compensated by whoever is putting on the event. If you pay your way in (for an educational conference), you're paying your own way. I have no idea which type this was. It sounded like they invited politicians... if that was the case, I think the chances that the LAF paid their travel would be quite high.

 

[miloman]

So what does voluntarily and very publicly owning up to cheating, lying, and defrauding people say about one's character? And if "past behavior often dictates future actions", what does voluntarily admitting to one's indiscretions suggest for what actions Landis might take in the future? Landis isn't dumb - he knew that he was opening himself up to all manner of potential legal challenges, lawsuits, etc, yet he still was willing to come clean. What does that say about his character?

That's anyone's guess. I'm less inclined to say character is at the heart of this; it's more likely desperation. After so much rejection, what did he have to lose? I will wait and see what Floyd has in store for us before I make up my mind.