Is Brailsford tactically inept?

Page 2 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Mar 31, 2010
18,136
2
0
thehog said:
That's what happens with no old school upbringing.

Tactically weak. 450w will not beat brains.

Porte is a dunce. Froome, well. But Brailford. Amateur hour.

Contador schooled them at the Vuelta. And again?

Nibali was right. SRMs. Ban 'em.
why bann srm's? it's hilarious to see sky stumble everywhere like this. also the giro, uran doesn't ride on his srm and he did best for sky at the giro and even won a stage
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
why bann srm's? it's hilarious to see sky stumble everywhere like this. also the giro, uran doesn't ride on his srm and he did best for sky at the giro and even won a stage
I'm pretty sure Froome was watching his srm when saxo took off. Cavendish said you have five seconds to go or you'll never catch it.
 
GPdesAmeriques said:
Isn't Servais Knaven the directeur sportif?

I bet Sky wishes they still had Sean Yates.
Agree. Yates is a nutcase. But could read a race like no other.

Too many dismiss Wiggins win as easy. But to be honest, Yates was a hard nut. Never should have got ride of him.

And Julich. Both had seen it all.
 
Feb 15, 2011
1,306
0
0
thehog said:
Agree. Yates is a nutcase. But could read a race like no other.

Too many dismiss Wiggins win as easy. But to be honest, Yates was a hard nut. Never should have got ride of him.

And Julich. Both had seen it all.
Julich especially. He knows his way around the block :cool:
 
Jul 13, 2009
283
0
0
The Hitch said:
Not after 80k of crosswinds had taken out the stage favourite and 2 of the top 10.
This is spot on. If there was ever a time for a GC team to break a race in crosswinds its when other teams (OPQS and Belkin) have already been working in them and gotten rid of large parts of the field already. Saxo kept their powder dry till they could drive it home to the finish and got their reward for being tactically astute enough to do so.
 
Jun 29, 2009
127
0
0
argyllflyer said:
If Froome made any mistake today it was not riding on Contador's wheel in that big group before the split.
he looked sad on the podium today, maybe he was rueing not making the effort to follow that wheel
 
Great quote from Fulsang (found in the CN news blurbs) about the general awareness when Saxo put the hammer down with 30k to go:

""The moment they start going you can see it and you can hear it because people start screaming and it goes crazy."
 
DB main mistake was not having a true road captain with EIsel and/or Knees there. As it was said, Rogers was the one for Saxo that said go, not a call from Riis. Eisel being a strong man for classics could have handle the crosswinds much better. Injuries have taken their toll, EBH being out and Thomas still fighting his injuries, both being there and healthy would have been tremendous help.

I think the other mistake is trying to repeat their performances of last year. Froome following Wiggins path last year, winning all the races he was in and having his team controlling races like they did last year, I think they have fatigue after a long season. Last years tour was much easier to control, a ton more of TTs, and the mountains weren't nearly as demanding. The only team outside of Sky who had ability to win and a strong enough team to make a difference was Liquigas for Nibali. BMC didn't have a particularly strong team and Lotto was half built for Griepel.

This year you had Movistar early in the race, now you have Belkin and Saxo. PLus eventhough the difference in Froome's TT and the rest of the GC is large, this race has a lot more difference making in the Mountains. Eventhough guys like Jrod, Quintana may not have a realistic shot (at this time) at winning the Tour, they will go after mountain stage wins, giving Mollema and Contador possible allies to attack with, one going for the stage win, the other going for the GC. This doesn't include other guys like Valverde, D. Martin as possible attacking allies.
 
Aug 16, 2011
10,820
1
0
Sky's tactic is about control. As long as Sky have total control, everything goes fine for them. And they will succeed more often then not. But do something unexpected (Saxo today) or throw them into a situation that is difficult to control (like the classics or a rainy and technical stage like at the Giro) and it is very possible to beat them.

That's what Movistar, Saxo, Belkin, and others will have to do to beat Sky. Make good use of the parcours, be unpredictable, and make the race difficult for Sky to control.
 
Mar 9, 2013
572
0
0
TTT the whole team must go full gas. Exactly what they should have done. Porte on Ax3, a real bad call. Soon as the dog launches Porte's day should be over! Softpedal time! Be an arrogant *** like Porte was in that stage....you pay later! TT Porte again goes all out.....Bang get your but kicked today....Nobody there to help the Dog! That my friends is a DS who should have known better!
 
Just some thoughts about today's stage and Sky's general tactics:
1. A true all-rounder like Knees could have played a significant role setting up the team which seemed a bit all over the road as soon as the gap was there.
2. I don't count today as a tactical fail: Froome was in a reasonable position in the bunch he just got unlucky that someone let the wheel in front go (Kwiat I think) and then he was alone and without the ability to close it. Whoever as ever ridden a bike on exposed crosswinds knows that's almost impossible to do. Cav's explanation nailed it: the best sprinter in the world almost didn't made it; it isn't a surprised that a rider not as explosive like Froome couldn't close that gap.
3. It's not easy to think about tactics when the only tactic they needed to use for 2 years is ride harder than everyone else and have an extra gear at the end.
4. Let's not forget that the team has some major injuries that hurt today.
5. Maybe it's a good idea not to chase everything that moves like they use to do: let the other teams get into breaks if they aren't dangerous. There's no need to waste energy there.
 
trevim said:
Just some thoughts about today's stage and Sky's general tactics:
1. A true all-rounder like Knees could have played a significant role setting up the team which seemed a bit all over the road as soon as the gap was there.
2. I don't count today as a tactical fail: Froome was in a reasonable position in the bunch he just got unlucky that someone let the wheel in front go (Kwiat I think) and then he was alone and without the ability to close it. Whoever as ever ridden a bike on exposed crosswinds knows that's almost impossible to do. Cav's explanation nailed it: the best sprinter in the world almost didn't made it; it isn't a surprised that a rider not as explosive like Froome couldn't close that gap.
3. It's not easy to think about tactics when the only tactic they needed to use for 2 years is ride harder than everyone else and have an extra gear at the end.
4. Let's not forget that the team has some major injuries that hurt today.
5. Maybe it's a good idea not to chase everything that moves like they use to do: let the other teams get into breaks if they aren't dangerous. There's no need to waste energy there.
Agree with a lot of the above.

Additionally, calls for Wiggins, Eisel, Knees etc to be included: Sky's pre-race assumption was that this Tour would be won and lost in the mountains. It's still their assumption as Froome said yesterday when asked about what happened. There's no guarantee any of the guys above would have been fitter than the team which is flagging. Wiggo perhaps, but at what cost to team morale? Kosta, Kiri, EBH, Lopez - all have underperformed throughout, but EBH would have been a major asset on stage 13. Add in Thomas' nasty injury on Corsica and you have a team that was struggling straight away, burning more matches in things like the TTT than they would have liked to. Porte's blow-up last Sunday wasn't anticipated, nor was Kiri's missing the time cut. Nor Kennaugh falling off a mountain.

Yesterday needed a classics team but they were off in Austria instead the week before. The classics team would have been as useful as a chocolate teapot come the week after. Brailsford and the coaches picked the best team for the overall race that was available.

What I feel has been highlighted this last week or so is that if a team wants to win two GTs in a few months and most major stage races inbetween, they need greater strength in depth. The 9/10 guys who do the classics have in the main (Stannard/Thomas/EBH apart) been overlooked for both GTs. Including Eisel as well would mean it's 4 out of 9. That's excessive for a race won and lost on steep mountain slopes.

Sky sending the Italians and Colombians to the Giro has weakened their Tour team.

Being wise after the fact, had the Tour been in May when burnout was less of the issue it appears to be (EBH apparently said off the record they'd been overtrained before the race), a 9-man squad chosen from the below would have done the business, illness & injury allowing (I leave Wiggins off as I don't think he was prepared to super domestique):

Froome
Porte
Uran
Henao
Kiryienka
Cataldo
Kennaugh
Stannard
EBH
Lopez
Thomas
Eisel
Siutsou
Pate
Knees

As it was, they have split the best they have chasing two prizes and may come up with nothing.

Eisel's job as road captain was given to Kiryienka but obviously he's not around to do it. Kennaugh and Stannard apparently are quite nervous each day as it's their first Tour. The lack of experience is something Sky are paying for just now, but this will stand them in good stead for 2014.
 
TheBean said:
+1

Contador attacking with his team on a crosswind flat was a complete surprise to everyone.
not to anyone who knows cycling. I recall cassani (rai) saying it could happen 20 km before it actually happened.

Carl0880 said:
DB main mistake was not having a true road captain with EIsel and/or Knees there. As it was said, Rogers was the one for Saxo that said go, not a call from Riis. Eisel being a strong man for classics could have handle the crosswinds much better. Injuries have taken their toll, EBH being out and Thomas still fighting his injuries, both being there and healthy would have been tremendous help.

I think the other mistake is trying to repeat their performances of last year. Froome following Wiggins path last year, winning all the races he was in and having his team controlling races like they did last year, I think they have fatigue after a long season. Last years tour was much easier to control, a ton more of TTs, and the mountains weren't nearly as demanding. The only team outside of Sky who had ability to win and a strong enough team to make a difference was Liquigas for Nibali. BMC didn't have a particularly strong team and Lotto was half built for Griepel.

This year you had Movistar early in the race, now you have Belkin and Saxo. PLus eventhough the difference in Froome's TT and the rest of the GC is large, this race has a lot more difference making in the Mountains. Eventhough guys like Jrod, Quintana may not have a realistic shot (at this time) at winning the Tour, they will go after mountain stage wins, giving Mollema and Contador possible allies to attack with, one going for the stage win, the other going for the GC. This doesn't include other guys like Valverde, D. Martin as possible attacking allies.
liquigas was a joke of a team last year, come on.
 
Sky's tactics are somewhat based on being overconfident imo.

Other than T-A (and Giro) this year, the have rarely faced opposition in key stage races over the last 12-15 months.

Of course some of the team's riders and staff are learning as we go.

Lets see how they handle the rest of the tour before final judgement.
 
Mar 31, 2010
18,136
2
0
GPdesAmeriques said:
Isn't Servais Knaven the directeur sportif?

I bet Sky wishes they still had Sean Yates.
servais knaven if you eve rlooked or listened at him you know he has no persoanlity. braislford will outscream him in the teamcar for sure and change tactics, which he doesn't understand. sunderland even left because of this and de jongh a few days ago in dutch tv said things would go wrong when he started interfering. so let's all be grateful for brailsford and the inept idiot that he is
 
Mar 31, 2010
18,136
2
0
_nm___ said:
he looked sad on the podium today, maybe he was rueing not making the effort to follow that wheel
he did make the effort but he blew. how many times does that need to be told? :rolleyes:
 
Jan 11, 2010
12,579
0
0
These big money teams know one thing, and that is money. Buy the best riders, buy the best trainers, buy the best equipment. But when it comes to actual bike racing, the kind that doesn't just involve a team time trial toward the finish, they're toast.
 
Mar 31, 2010
18,136
2
0
theyoungest said:
These big money teams know one thing, and that is money. Buy the best riders, buy the best trainers, buy the best equipment. But when it comes to actual bike racing, the kind that doesn't just involve a team time trial toward the finish, they're toast.
sky isn't just a big money team. they are on the forefront of pretty much everything and know well who and how to scout. you can't compare it to utter **** like bmc, that only buy big star riders for over ifnlated salaries that then do everything wrong and make their riders go backwards
 
Jan 11, 2010
12,579
0
0
Ryo Hazuki said:
sky isn't just a big money team. they are on the forefront of pretty much everything and know well who and how to scout. you can't compare it to utter **** like bmc, that only buy big star riders for over ifnlated salaries that then do everything wrong and make their riders go backwards
Yes, Sky are definitely the better team in the sense that they also use their money to buy good trainers/coaches. But these trainers know how to prepare their riders for just one type of effort: a controlled, regular mountain stage with a climb at the end. 200 k tempo and then the last 20 k full gas.

Tactical racing, one day racing, racing from start to finish, they have no advantage at all there. Quite the opposite, actually.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY