Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

[D-Queued]

Interesting results today.

Can anyone explain why this thread is in the Clinic?

Dave.

 

[luckyboy]

Because it is concerned with doping?

 

[c&cfan]

Because it is concerned with doping?

he was being sarcastic.

 

[therealtimshady]

i will get slated for this but i think gilbert face looks a bit like ricardo ricco's

 

[The Hitch]

What was Harmonn saying today btw? Did he see the victory as another victory for clean cycling or did he mention the controversy?

 

[Franklin]

What will he do now? Defend it? Try to ride a top 10?

*shudders*

Well, considering the LBL list is a veritable list of dopers... what Gilbert is showing now is almost a mockery of those past winners.

I'm the first who wants facts before judgment, but well... this seems beyond to be beyond outrageous. I am slowly going from "not surprised if he is caught" towards "surprised if he is not caught".

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

gilbert made that uphill finish look like a cake walk... fabians attack was exciting for a couple seconds, quickly realized he had no chance... he started looking back so quickly, didn't really seem like he gave it 100%.

 

[c&cfan]

gilbert made that uphill finish look like a cake walk... fabians attack was exciting for a couple seconds, quickly realized he had no chance... he started looking back so quickly, didn't really seem like he gave it 100%.

exactly!!!!! when he was going still in the hill, gilbert wasn't really closing fast.. but he then looked back and stopped.

maybe he was going to stop and come off the bike so make them wait for conti? lol i dont understand why he stopped.

 

[usedtobefast]

i will get slated for this but i think gilbert face looks a bit like ricardo ricco's

i thought i was the only one who thought that. Son of Cobra

 

[ElChingon]

Maybe just maybe he blew up? I hear it can happen when you go all out and then hit the upper limit of your abilities, but I'm just guessing.

 

[lean mean &green]

------- Ends -----------

Phew, that took a while!

thanks for going to the trouble. his comments reach far and wide and might even be deserving of their own thread.

we're seeing a growing trend of people with real expertise unafraid to speak openly and honestly about suspicious performances. just having the dialogue is a step in the right direction. i'm of the opinion that there's more to being a physiologist than tinkering with ergometers in a dingy human performance lab all day. at some point you must come down from the ivory tower and apply expertise to (gasp!) things that matter in the real world. the profession has been embarrassingly passive in the antidoping fight but that's changing. it's somewhat understandable as the PED omerta which exists throughout all athletic participation extends to them somewhat. the profession requires access to athletes and there's a risk that speaking out will burn bridges. those cushy university teaching positions are elusive and when you get a good one you don't rock the boat by possibly casting doubt on someone's favorite athlete, team, or even your own university athletics by accident.

over time vayer hasn't been shy about entering the debate and i believe history will look back at him favorably for it. he only risks being proved wrong and that's better than not having the guts to enter the fray. more likely in vayer's case tho, the reward is that your educated guesses are proved correct!

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

Maybe just maybe he blew up? I hear it can happen when you go all out and then hit the upper limit of your abilities, but I'm just guessing.

I don't know what Fabian went through to get to that point where he launched an attack.. I only saw the attack part.. but it only lasted for a couple seconds, pretty big let down.. I like a good Fabian attack to last for 30 seconds, and have me on the edge of my seat biting my nails wondering if he's going to pull off something audacious. It's like he just wanted to get to the front and say "ha ha just kidding I can't ride up this hill!" I guess if he was well protected today, a little red zone action for the last few km's of the race won't affect his time trialing abilities tomorrow? Hoping not..

 

[blackcat]

Interesting results today.

Can anyone explain why this thread is in the Clinic?

Dave.

Gilbert needs a good shower, and the Clinic are putting the hat around for a hot water shower in the OP team bus, hope he loses the odor issues.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I don't know what Fabian went through to get to that point where he launched an attack.. I only saw the attack part.. but it only lasted for a couple seconds, pretty big let down.. I like a good Fabian attack to last for 30 seconds, and have me on the edge of my seat biting my nails wondering if he's going to pull off something audacious. It's like he just wanted to get to the front and say "ha ha just kidding I can't ride up this hill!" I guess if he was well protected today, a little red zone action for the last few km's of the race won't affect his time trialing abilities tomorrow? Hoping not..

I don't know if he was kidding, I think he just hesitated for a second when Gilbert caught him. Phillipe was smarter at that moment and attacked again while Cancellara's hesitation caused him to be sucked up by the field. Don't forget they were on Gilbert's terrain, if they were on more level roads the situation could easily have been reversed.
Oh wait we are in the clinic...........Fabian hesitated because he said "crap Gilbert must have better sh!t than me today".

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

watching the footage of the finish again, it looks like gilbert is trying to win the stage, but not let everyone know just how incredibly easy he is finding it to beat the pants off of everyone.

It looks obvious that fabian is kaput, blown, letting off the gas, etc, as he swerves far to the left (why the hell did he swerve so far?), the kind of swerve you make when you are completely destroyed... and why does gilbert then follow fabians wheel?? if you were truly trying to win the race with 100% effort you would seize that opportunity to go hard up around the bend because fabian has put himself so far to the left he would lose a lot of energy swerving back to the right to try to grab your wheel as you accelerate.. gilbert's move looked very foolish IF there was a rider behind him capable of challenging him on the climb, but he knew he was untouchable.

"is it really my turn to go? we aren't even half way up the hill and you guys are blown.. fine fine i'll do the damn thing, hope this doesn't look too obvious" - PG's actual thoughts

I'm curious if Cadel had a chance to finish close to Gilbert's wheel, if all that positioning crap that Cadel was talking about in the post race interview was factual.. he did look pretty good in that finale, but Cadel is a punchy little hill climber. Imagine Cadel beating Gilbert, wooo that would be funny.

there is also a slight chance i'm just projecting my paranoid suspicions.. but very slight imo.

 

[D-Queued]

Because it is concerned with doping?

Now, I was trying to figure out why Gilbert would be singled out over what so many others. But, look at how prescient the Clinic is!!!

he was being sarcastic.

Ok. But, couldn't believe my good fortune that I was the first to add something here after watching him pull on the yellow. Maybe everyone else was just stunned.

Gilbert needs a good shower, and the Clinic are putting the hat around for a hot water shower in the OP team bus, hope he loses the odor issues.

One of those 20 minute showers before the controls?

Dave.

 

[hrotha]

People should remember that domination is not proof of doping. Merckx dominated, and while he doped he didn't get the massive boosts of EPO and HGH. Gilbert is not suspect just because he wins (because, in a hypothetical clean cycling, there would still be some riders who would be the best at what they do), but because of the dark clouds that are starting to be seen around him: Vansevenant, ex-Saunier doctor, all-time record up the Mur de Huy, etc.

 

[red_flanders]

I don't know what Fabian went through to get to that point where he launched an attack.. I only saw the attack part.. but it only lasted for a couple seconds, pretty big let down.. I like a good Fabian attack to last for 30 seconds, and have me on the edge of my seat biting my nails wondering if he's going to pull off something audacious. It's like he just wanted to get to the front and say "ha ha just kidding I can't ride up this hill!" I guess if he was well protected today, a little red zone action for the last few km's of the race won't affect his time trialing abilities tomorrow? Hoping not..

He saw Gilbert had bridged up, knew the game was up and turned it off.

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

but when someone bridges up to you, they just put in a hard effort to match your hard effort.. you don't quit, you ride a pace that doesn't give your opponent a drafting benefit, wait for them to make a move and then try to jump on them... of course that just leads to the waiting game, and gilbert will always win the uphill sprint. so i'm not sure what my argument is here.. try harder next time Fabu?? yes that's it!

 

[red_flanders]

He had no chance when Gilbert bridged up. He can't touch him in an uphill (or any) sprint and knows it. He tried to catch the fast guys out with an attack, his only chance, and when it failed, he backed off. Why waste energy?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

He had no chance when Gilbert bridged up. He can't touch him in an uphill (or any) sprint and knows it. He tried to catch the fast guys out with an attack, his only chance, and when it failed, he backed off. Why waste energy?

Exactly. And with the TTT tomorrow he's going to have enough work ahead of him, dragging his team around...

 

[Escarabajo]

Thanks for the translation L'Arriviste.

 

[Franklin]

People should remember that domination is not proof of doping. Merckx dominated, and while he doped he didn't get the massive boosts of EPO and HGH. Gilbert is not suspect just because he wins (because, in a hypothetical clean cycling, there would still be some riders who would be the best at what they do), but because of the dark clouds that are starting to be seen around him: Vansevenant, ex-Saunier doctor, all-time record up the Mur de Huy, etc.

The dark clouds could not be there and he would still be a discussion point.

1. He wins the AGR and FW.
2. Then he crushes the competition in the doping classic; LBL
3. And the guy just keeps on winning. So far he hasn't lost a race he participated in.

Not only does he put Rebellin, Vino and Allesandro to shame.... he didn't seem to have peaked as he's still going strong. Indeed, we have to go back to Merckx for this kind of domination. But this time we know the competition has bloodvector doping.

I would say that in itself is enough to say it's a valid clinic topic.

 

[python]

<snip> But this time we know the competition has bloodvector doping.

i would suspect that gilbert's domination, if one has to speculate, is more along the characteristics of what was found on vansevenant (localized muscle enhancement) and less due to the bloodvector use.

a horse indeed.

 

[sniper]

People should remember that domination is not proof of doping. Merckx dominated, and while he doped he didn't get the massive boosts of EPO and HGH. Gilbert is not suspect just because he wins (because, in a hypothetical clean cycling, there would still be some riders who would be the best at what they do), but because of the dark clouds that are starting to be seen around him: Vansevenant, ex-Saunier doctor, all-time record up the Mur de Huy, etc.

good post. good logic.