Is Team Sky just part of a bigger plan?

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Dr. Maserati

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Robert21 said:
It is clear that many have little love for Sky because of the 'dirty money' that funds the team (me included). For example;



Fair comment, as far as it goes, but in my more charitable moments I sometimes wonder if there is more to it than this. True enough, Rupert Murdoch is an evil demagogue . However, it actually seems to be his son James who is the one pushing the promotion of cycling. He is a cyclist himself and his enthusiasm seem very real.

Then there is the link between Sky and British Cycling to consider. Again this might be much more positive than many give credit, and I think and that it is quite possible that the whole Sky / British Cycling / Wiggins / Froome thing is part of a grander plan.

In Britain cyclists are treated like vermin, with newspapers often carrying articles calling for the sterilisation or 'humane extermination' of cyclists and so forth, with the right-wing Daily Mail being one of the worst. One major reason for this, as is documented by some very credible research by bodies such as the UK Transport Research Laboratory, is that cyclists in Britain are treated as being members of a low-status out group. Now Britain is a very right-wing, hierarchical and authoritarian country, and it very much goes against the grain in such a country to do anything that might favour members of minority groups, especially those from a low-status 'out group', over members of a more dominant social group, such as motorists.

People have campaigned for over 100 years to raise the status of cyclists in Britain with practically zero effect. For that to become a reality what needs to be done first and foremost is to somehow raise cyclists from their 'out group' status. One way that could be done, at lease to some degree, is through sport, and there have been many positive portrayals of 'Britain's Olympic cycling heroes', 'Wiggo' and all the rest.

Given the nature of British 'society' (if there is such a thing) in order to break the old 'out group' status of cyclists it is also necessary to 'normalise' cycling and get more 'ordinary' people on bikes, thereby undermining their 'hated minority' status. Again, Sky and British Cycling have been trying hard to do exactly this, with their 'Sky rides' and so forth.

So, perhaps we should go along with the 'Sky myth', even if it as believable as WWF wrestling, it might actually do British cyclists some good. I am also absolutely certain that if a high-profile British cyclist such as Froome were to be busted for doping, not only would the whole Sky edifice come crashing down, any hopes that British cyclists have that they might be treated better than they have for the last 100 years or so can be forgotten. The Daily Mail for one would have a field day, arguing how this was 'proof' that all cyclists are morally corrupt and do not deserve to be allowed to ride on 'the motorists' roads.

It might be argued that even the Armstrong conspiracy was not just about boosting corporate profits, with the UCI, misguided or not, seeing protecting Armstrong as being 'good for the sport' and a way to promote its 'globalisation'. Similarly, perhaps James Murdoch and British Cycling do have some nobler aims over simply boosting the profits of Sky TV.

You are a bit all over the place here.

Are British Cycling, BSky B, Murdock going to make hay? Of course.
Are Sky investing in the sport for the good of their hearts or to build brand awareness/loyalty - the latter of course. I see nothing wrong with any of that.

But to suggest it is part of some grand plan - well, where and why?

And in a later post - you say Cookson might hide a positive for Sky if he became President. That exactly what Verbruggen used to do, McQuaid tried to give Contador (& LA) an out- for the good of the sport.
Yet Cookson has pledged to have anti-doping independent within a year.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
to suggest it is part of some grand plan - well, where and why?

Well, if I were James Murdoch and not only a cyclist, in a position to do something to help turn around the lot of cyclists in Britain, I certainly would. After all, many almost powerless people spend years trying to try to make Britain better for cyclists, and it is almost expected that those in positions of power will use that power to further the interests of those they associate themselves with.

A few suggestive insights here:

James Murdoch, Rupert's youngest son, was among those on the Champs Elysées on Sunday afternoon, cheering home the first British winner of the Tour de France. That was fitting, because while his successor as BSkyB's chief executive, Jeremy Darroch, was in Team Sky's backup car, caught on ITV punching the vehicle's roof in delight, it was Murdoch, a keen cyclist, who was critical to sustaining the media group's £10m-a-year sponsorship commitment...

Corporate goals aside, friends and allies of James Murdoch say his personal contribution has been crucial. He rapidly became keen on the sport after the deal was struck; when attending the Labour party conference in September 2008, he found time for an early start to visit the National Cycling Centre at Manchester and by the next summer he was riding the Dolomite Marathon in Italy, a demanding one-day race open to amateurs, where riders have to navigate seven mountain passes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jul/23/james-murdoch-sky-tour-de-france
 

Dr. Maserati

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Robert21 said:
Well, if I were James Murdoch and not only a cyclist, in a position to do something to help turn around the lot of cyclists in Britain, I certainly would. After all, many almost powerless people spend years trying to try to make Britain better for cyclists, and it is almost expected that those in positions of power will use that power to further the interests of those they associate themselves with.

A few suggestive insights here:



http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jul/23/james-murdoch-sky-tour-de-france

But thats not a grand plan.
Its a rich kid putting money in to his hobby.

Its like the joke - when his kids were young, Rupert Murdoch asked his kids what they would like for Christmas:
The first said he wanted a toy train, so Rupert sent him to Japan where he had his own bullet trian.
The second said she wanted a dolls house, so he bought her Buckingham Palace.
James asked for a cowboy outfit, so Rupert hooked him up with Professional Cycling.
 
Robert21 said:
My pleasure.

Richard Tomkins, chief feature writer of The Financial Times wrote in the FT on October 26 2007 ‘In my opinion, anything that stops cyclists breeding is to be welcomed as an unmitigated good’.

Emma Parker-Bowles writing in The Sun on 7th April 2006, in a piece called ‘I hate cyclists’ said that what was ‘needed’ was ‘a natural extermination process’ for cyclists. (Parker-Bowles was at the time a presenter of a TV motoring program called ‘Vroom Vroom’ and a client of a lawyer known as ‘Mr. Loophole', real name Nick Freeman, who specialises in getting celebrities off serious driving charges on technicalities.)

There are thousands of similarly rabid anti-cyclist comments to be found in the British press over the years. Just a couple of classics:

Writing in The Sun the hugely popular motoring journalist and TV presenter Jeremy Clarkson warned cyclists ‘Do not cruise through red lights. Because if I'm coming the other way, I will run you down, for fun.’ However, stopping at red lights would also seem to be a bad idea with Clarkson warning cyclists not to stop at lights in front of him either as ‘I will set off at normal speed and you will be crushed under my wheels.’ To those cyclists who objected to their lives being put at risk by inconsiderate driving Clarkson added ‘if we cut you up, shut up’.

Tony Parsons came out with a great anti-cyclist rant in The Mirror a few years back writing:






Only a true 'Daily Mail Reader' could say that! (And the fact that the biggest selling newspapers in Britain are right-wing or even quasi-fascist publications such as The Daily Mail, The Sun and The Express is itself evidence of just how right-wing Britain is in its outlook.)

There are some serious mental cases in this world it seems:eek:
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
But thats not a grand plan.
Its a rich kid putting money in to his hobby.

Its like the joke - when his kids were young, Rupert Murdoch asked his kids what they would like for Christmas:
The first said he wanted a toy train, so Rupert sent him to Japan where he had his own bullet trian.
The second said she wanted a dolls house, so he bought her Buckingham Palace.
James asked for a cowboy outfit, so Rupert hooked him up with Professional Cycling.

Good one! :D

I'll go with that. No big plan. However, I still dread to think what the backlash against cycling in the UK would be should Sky ever be exposed as the 'New USP / Discovery'.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Robert21 said:
Good one! :D

I'll go with that. No big plan. However, I still dread to think what the backlash against cycling in the UK would be should Sky ever be exposed as the 'New USP / Discovery'.

Why would there be a backlash?

Cycling as a recreational and commuter activity would be separate from the professional side in that incidence.
Obviously there is some overlap, recreational cyclists might watch more Cycle racing and people who watch might buy a bike but neither is solely dependent on the other.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
Why would there be a backlash?

Because in Britain any excuse to 'have a go' at cyclists is a good one and if you are a cyclist your status is about on a par of that of a worm, no matter who you are.

A good recent example is that of the British MP and Conservative chief whip, Andrew Mitchell. Mitchell tried to ride his bike out of the gates across Downing street, as any other vehicle would have been allowed to. Some officious police officer refused to open the gate and demanded that he get off his bike and walk with it through a side gate. Mitchell got into a bit of an argument with said officious police officer who, or so it seems, embellished his story claiming that he had been called a 'pleb'. In the aftermath Mitchell was forced to resign. However, the police account of the event is now the subject of an official investigation and a number of people have been arrested because it seems Mitchell was the subject of a 'stitch up'.

What is most interesting here is how this event was used to further demonise cyclists in general in the UK, supposedly proving that all cyclists are 'arrogant', have no respect for the law and so forth. Here is one example from the unashamedly right-wing newspaper, The Telegraph.

The chief whip, with his petulant tirade, reminded us of everything we hate about cyclists

We got rather fond of cyclists this summer. Bradley Wiggins, with his sideboards, on his throne at Hampton Court, lovely Victoria Pendleton and those stoic girls who cycled through storms. They and their Olympics colleagues brought home medals, with charm and cheerfulness, and changed our view of cyclists for the better. From traffic-light jumpers and ratty road-users, they morphed into champions and heroes...

But then along bowled Andrew Mitchell and, with his petulant tirade, reminded us all of Everything We Hate About Cyclists.

...nobody loses their temper more often than a bike rider. Cyclists believe they are a superior race. Or in a superior race. They are convinced that, because they’re on a bike, they’re more responsible, intelligent and healthy than the rest of us

...They have absolutely no spatial awareness of anything that isn’t passing them on two wheels. They never look up, or enjoy the passing scene. They only talk to other cyclists. The rest of us, they verbally abuse.

Heads down, teeth clenched, buttocks unappetisingly upended and cased in white neoprene, they hurtle past, buzzing loudly, like a plague of Technicolor locusts.

...too many cyclists think that being disguised as a lumpy glowworm means they can behave like spoilt brats, whose route to glory is being obstructed by the rest of us.

...I think it’s the sheer embarrassment of the outfits they have to wear that makes many of these cyclists so bad-tempered. I’m sure they can hear the mocking laughter of onlookers whenever they whizz past, flashing their glistening, logo-strewn limbs.

...And why wasn’t he wearing a helmet? Presumably, he didn’t want to meet the PM with “helmet hair”. But his formal attire and annoying Miss Marple basket (what’s in it anyway? Not humble pie, that’s for sure) don’t fool us at all.

I’m convinced that beneath his façade lurks a Lycra lout, squirming in a bodysuit of wasp yellow.

...the Chief Whip punctured all the post-Olympian goodwill we felt towards cyclists, in one foul swoop.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...d-then-Andrew-Mitchell-had-to-come-along.html

This sort of thing is weekly fare in Britain's press, and they would have a field day if Froome or Wiggins tested positive, proof that 'all cyclists' are morally corrupt.

Meanwhile footballers and other 'celebrities' can go around drink driving, speeding and leaving people dead in their wake, and no one bats an eye. Then of course, as a 'motorist' they are still 'one of us', even if no one would accept that their behaviour shows that 'all motorists are the same'. Classic right-wing Authoritarian thinking!
 
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This was another good one!

Mail On Sunday.
13th September 2009

The Tesla Roadster is the all-electric supercar that's as fast as a Ferrari ...but as quiet as a bicycle

Celebrity Chef, James Martin.

Can you be green, without ever wanting to hear another bleeding-heart word about the environment as long as you live?

I do my bit more than most: I recycle all my rubbish and sort it into three different bins. I turn all my kitchen waste into compost. Even my washing powder is twice-the-price organic stuff that doesn't give worms tummy-aches when it returns to the earth.

But whenever I drive to London, dutifully paying my £8 for the privilege (on top of my road tax, petrol tax, parking and all the other rip-offs), without fail a cyclist will rap on my window and make some holier-than-thou comment, before zooming off through a red light where he knows I can't get him.

God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them. That's one of the reasons I live in the countryside, where birds tweet, horses roam, pigs grunt and Lycra-clad buttocks are miles away. But recently, there's been a disturbing development.

Each Saturday, a big black truck appears at the bottom of my road, with bikes stuck to the roof and rear. Out of it step a bunch of City-boy ponces in fluorescent Spider-Man outfits, shades, bum bags and stupid cleated shoes, who then pedal around our narrow lanes four abreast with their private parts alarmingly apparent. Do they enjoy it? They never smile. I'm sure they just come here to wind me up.

Anyway, the other day Live sent me the new eco-friendly electric car…I had this car for six hours - partly because they needed to get it back to the showroom in Knightsbridge, but also because it only had enough juice in it for 120 miles, after which it needs to be recharged overnight…

But I don't care about any of that, and here's why. Twenty minutes into my test drive I pulled round a leafy bend, enjoying the birdsong - and spotted those damned Spider-Man cyclists. Knowing they wouldn't hear me coming, I stepped on the gas, waited until the split second before I overtook them, then gave them an almighty blast on the horn at the exact same time I passed them at speed.

The look of sheer terror as they tottered into the hedge was the best thing I've ever seen in my rear-view mirror. I think this could be the car for me.
 
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Frosty said:
Then again you have The Times (Murdoch-owned) allowing columns like this

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/parris-apologises-for-death-to-cyclists-comment/0730

This is what Parris wrote:

The Times
December 27, 2007
What’s smug and deserves to be decapitated?
Matthew Parris: My Week

A festive custom we could do worse than foster would be stringing piano wire across country lanes to decapitate cyclists. It’s not just the Lycra, though Heaven knows this atrocity alone should be a capital offence; nor the helmets, though these ludicrous items of headgear are designed to protect the only part of a cyclist that is not usefully employed; nor the self-righteousness, though a small band of sports cyclists on winter’s morning emits more of that than a cathedral at evensong; nor even the brutish disregard for all other road users, though the lynching of a cyclist by a mob of mothers with pushchairs would be a joy to witness.

…What is the carbon footprint of a panting, sugar-gulping, chocolate-chewing, Lycra-clad leisure-cyclist? a) His or her journey is totally unnecessary; b) whole convoys of cargo boats steam the Atlantic to bring the molasses to be energy-intensively refined for them; and c) the chemical processes that generate the vile materials that clothe, shoe and helmet a cyclist – not a man-made fibre among them – will be poisoning entire provinces of China.

…In just one little posse of these monsters there are levels of self-satisfaction that could power a small religious crusade.

Yeah, it was 'just a joke', just like people such as Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson were 'only joking' when attacking ethnic minorities and women.
 
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Robert21 said:
They almost got away with it, didn't they?

I can tell you the casual viewer that wasn't into cycling in the US suddenly was when Armstrong was winning. Think about it, it was the perfect feel good movie. Guy almost dies, fights back from death's bed and wins the Tour. Most Americas couldn't name another major cycling race if you asked them. All they knew was Armstrong and the TDF.

Now with LA disgraced and retired no one here is watching. TREK sales I'm sure are way down as well. People in the internet, Twitter, Facebook generation follow the Lemmings and forget instantly.

So I'd say letting guys get away with it DOES help the sport.
 
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DirtyWorks said:
You mean the one where there's no boundary between the rules enforcer, BC, and Sky? The other federation set up like that was...... USA Cycling!



We don't know Sky's motivations. We know the UCI's though!

Short answer: Make more money!
TLDR version:
-Globalize cycling #1. Which is code for more viewers, less participants. Make more money!
-Globalize cycling #2. Help riders that advance the UCI's goals of growing viewers. Make more money!
-Use your job at the UCI to personally profit. We know someone, somewhere operates a for-profit licensing operation as an arm of the UCI. Makarov was told he had to buy a license in order to use the phrase "Tour of Russia" Make more money!

Well they do say that what happens in the US, give it ten years, and it will happen in the UK. Must have been something to do with Mrs T kissing Ragan gently on the cheek and whispering in his ear, there are zero differences in our thinking.

There was a good program on UK TV last week. It was about the photographer and war correspondent Don McCullin, who worked for the Times newspaper and there was an interesting bit about the papers take over of Murdock senior. This was basically the end of McCullin's career with the Times. Because it marked a change in the papers culture and lack of independence.

I think Sky are supporting cycling as part of this on going cultural change, sporting hero's, celebrity culture and so on.

So it is more than money, it is about taking control by changing culture and owning the media to do it. And it is neo elitist.
 
To the OP: Last thing on Earth a Global Corporation cares about is people:D
So forget about the "broad Picture" behind SKY's Success;)

If the UK is interested in promoting cycling beyond the sport as a transport option & daily life stile practice, then just look at what the Scandinavian countries, The Netherlands & Bogota(Colombia) have done to embrace/promote it---and there was no Pro-Team behind it;)
 
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rata de sentina said:
British cyclists are obviously pussies if they put up with that crap.

What do you expect them to do? In Britain a cyclist can't even write a letter to a local paper defending cyclists without it prompting a weeks-long barrage of cyclist hating responses.

Take positive action, even in such a benign form as a taking part in a 'Critical mass' ride and the heavy mob will be onto you. For example:

http://rt.com/news/london-police-olympics-arrests-269/

This is the reality of modern Britain!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQR_CXFtmvo
 
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hfer07 said:
If the UK is interested in promoting cycling beyond the sport as a transport option & daily life stile practice, then just look at what the Scandinavian countries, The Netherlands & Bogota(Colombia) have done to embrace/promote it---and there was no Pro-Team behind it

Note that the two most 'cycling friendly' nations on Earth, Denmark and Holland, also have a long history of holding egalitarian values and the protection of the interests of minority groups in high regard. This is no coincidence. It is their political outlook that has facilitated the level of cycling that they have.

In inequitable, hierarchical, status-orientated countries such as the UK (and come to that Australia and the US) everything is geared towards protecting privilege and existing power hierarchies. This mentality extends to ensuring that motorists continue to be 'The Masters of the Highway' (as one UK coroner put it in the late 1940's) and ensuring that cyclists continue to be perceived as being members of 'the lower orders'.

P.s. At one time I did a lot of research into the history of attitudes to cyclists in Britain and one thing that stood out was the way that many magistrates and judges in the 1920's and 1930' gave the idea that motorists should be held to account for running down cyclists and pedestrians very short shrift. Their attitude seems to have been that any argument that 'Gentlemen motorists' should be jailed or even banned for running down 'the lower orders' was essentially 'bolshevik' in nature and as such had to be stamped on at all costs. These magistrates and judges were all but letting motorists get away with killing people just to reinforce the message that in Britain class and social status ruled and nothing was going to change that! These attitudes even led to nation-wide mass demonstrations in Britain in the 1930's, but these of course changed nothing. Motorists in Britain are still 'Masters of the Highway' and cyclists are often still treated very shabbily by the police and courts when they are run down by errant drivers. Another recent example:


A driver who killed one of England's top veteran cyclists when he ploughed into him during a race has been spared jail after a court heard how his brief lapse of concentration led to a devastating accident that "could have happened to anybody".

...signs were in place warning motorists of the event, which Barraclough told police he had seen.

...Accident investigators said Barraclough would have seen Grayson for at least nine seconds. But the defendant admitted he had been looking at a low-loader lorry on the opposite carriageway just before the crash.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/veteran-cyclist-leonard-grayson
 
Robert21 said:
Proof that the UK is right wing? The fact that they voted for 18 Years of Thatcherism, followed by years of New Labour who only got into power by throwing out any pretentions that they still had that they were in any way 'socialist'. Now Britain is 'enjoying' what is quite possibly the more right-wing government they have ever had. And yet this is what the people vote for, as do a couple of million people every day when they buy their Daily Mails.

The last time the British actually voted for a genuinely 'socialist' government was probably in 1945!

At risk of adding to this, what is all this political paranoia doing in a Cycling forum? Playing kingmaker with entire global sports to sweeten the Murdoch family's income by what - less than 1 percent? Cycling either realised or potential is a drop in the Ocean of what Sky do or could broadcast. Get a grip.
 
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Cookster15 said:
At risk of adding to this, what is all this political paranoia doing in a Cycling forum?

To be honest, I think a lot of cyclists in Britain (and come to that places Like Australia as well) would do well to better understand exactly why they have the low status they do. OK, so people want to live in hierarchical, right of centre 'societies'. Fair enough. However, they also need to understand just how that also plays out in terms of reinforcing the 'hierarchy of the roads'.

By the way this is not 'paranoia', it is a simple fact of history and is supported by ample psychological research.

P.s. further proof, if it were needed, comes from the way right-wing motoring pundits (such as the 'legendary' Jeremy Clarkson) themselves perceive the ongoing conflict between motorists and cyclists. Just as it was in the 1930's, cyclists who object to the existing hierarchy of power on the roads, who call for motorists to be more fully held to account when they kill or maim others, who demand the better enforcement of driving laws and so forth are almost universally portrayed as being 'Lefty, tree-hugging, muesli munchers' and so forth. That this is how the likes of Clarkson see such issues confirms that a form of 'class war' is indeed being waged against the cyclist.
 
Cookster15 said:
At risk of adding to this, what is all this political paranoia doing in a Cycling forum? Playing kingmaker with entire global sports to sweeten the Murdoch family's income by what - less than 1 percent? Cycling either realised or potential is a drop in the Ocean of what Sky do or could broadcast. Get a grip.

While it's impossible to know what Sky's motives are, one of the safer bets was the usual Olympics funding bubbles that pass through host countries.

The UCI operates a worldwide monopoly on competitive cycling. It seems like a worldwide media organization might be an attractive pairing to both parties continued efforts to "globalize." Or, maybe the UCI/Cookson found someone with lots of play money like another OPQS. Lots of possibilities. All of it is about money though.
 

Dr. Maserati

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ShrubberyBlue said:
I'm not a fan of sky - but seriously get over it already. It's getting very very boring now.
I assume when they are on about 'right wingers' they mean how the riders stop for a mechanical on the right in Europe, but the opposite in the UK - yeah, that always confuses people.