is team sky the worst team tactically in cycling?

[DBotero]

Re: Re:

Sky did one of their best TTT performances in a while. Didn't expect them to be so strong and most predicted they would lose time today.

Well Froome and Thomas have shown they're in great form all week. And Konig and Porte are pretty good time trialists. They did a bit better than I expected, considering they brought 3 climbers (Poels/Nieve/Kennaugh) and 2 others that aren't great in TT's (Rowe/Stannard) but the signs are pretty good.

Of course in the end it'll all be down to the climbing ability of Froome/Quintana/Contador, if one of them is stronger than the others (or with his good start none better than Froome) he'll probably win, regardless of the rest of his team. The only exception being if Contador (maybe with Nibali) goes crazy in descents, but at the very least rain is needed for that.

I didn't see Nieve until now,he's hiding better than Zubeldia.Are you sure he's riding? I don't consider Kennaugh a climber,even Poels is not a pure climber and he can ITT a bit,Roche is an all-rounder.They have a great TTT team,but they didn't deliver in the TTT lately and the team didn't looked too hot this Tour,that's why people were expecting to lose some time to BMC and Tinkoff.

 

[snccdcno]

He isn't, that post included Nieve instead of Roche.

 

[AICA ribonucleotide]

Re: Re:

Sky did one of their best TTT performances in a while. Didn't expect them to be so strong and most predicted they would lose time today.

Well Froome and Thomas have shown they're in great form all week. And Konig and Porte are pretty good time trialists. They did a bit better than I expected, considering they brought 3 climbers (Poels/Nieve/Kennaugh) and 2 others that aren't great in TT's (Rowe/Stannard) but the signs are pretty good.

Of course in the end it'll all be down to the climbing ability of Froome/Quintana/Contador, if one of them is stronger than the others (or with his good start none better than Froome) he'll probably win, regardless of the rest of his team. The only exception being if Contador (maybe with Nibali) goes crazy in descents, but at the very least rain is needed for that.

No wonder Sky did so well they transferred in Nieve after a week without anyone noticing.

 

[Ramira]

Re: Re:

No wonder Sky did so well they transferred in Nieve after a week without anyone noticing.

Hmm seems I screwed up when I looked at the start list, looked at the 10 man team not the final 9 man and in doing so somehow confused Nieve and Roche. I meant Roche/Poels/Kennaugh as mountain men who aren't known for great TT's.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

No wonder Sky did so well they transferred in Nieve after a week without anyone noticing.

Hmm seems I screwed up when I looked at the start list, looked at the 10 man team not the final 9 man and in doing so somehow confused Nieve and Roche. I meant Roche/Poels/Kennaugh as mountain men who aren't known for great TT's.

I think Kennaugh is a very decent time trialist

 

[Richeypen]

Re: Re:

No wonder Sky did so well they transferred in Nieve after a week without anyone noticing.

Hmm seems I screwed up when I looked at the start list, looked at the 10 man team not the final 9 man and in doing so somehow confused Nieve and Roche. I meant Roche/Poels/Kennaugh as mountain men who aren't known for great TT's.

I think Kennaugh is a very decent time trialist

PK is very overrated as a TTer. That said his pursuit background 'should' translate very well into a TTT.

 

[cantpedal]

Re: Re:

How is Froome being in yellow proof that SKy are good tactically? Its what we have always said, they just have the guy(s) who push out the most watts and end up winning despite tactics.

The echelons stage is not what got Froome the yellow jersey. Froome would have the yellow jersey regardless. He got it from smashing everyone bar Purito on the single gc stage of the race. Which is what many/ most of us always said would happen as we picked Froome to win the Tour despite his teams poor tactics, because he is by far the strongest in the race.

And one of the reasons Sky's poor tactics, for all those asking the "why do you pick on Sky" question, get brought up is that they claim to be the most intelligent and most tactically astute team in the peloton, dismissing other teams as amateur and full of idiots. Yet its the same team that should have easily got 1-2 in the 2011 Vuelta and somehow managed to not win it.

sorry, but you are relentless to sky. obviously negatively biased opinion. yeah, sky were wrong with picking up the correct rider for leadership during the race but wiggins had 4th place in the tour behind his shoulders, the dawg was a completely uncertain quantity and could hugely crack on any stage. so the decision had its logic. thats cycling

The decision didnt have the tiniest bit of logic. You have two riders. One is cracking while one could crack in the future (maybe worth mentioning that it was the penultimate mountain stage). Now you have the choice between:
1.) The domestique follows the attacker. As soon as the domestique catches the attacker the attacker will stop working because the domestique will wheel suck so that the attacker would neither win the stage nor the gc.
2.) You let the domestique set a low pace for the leader so the leader doesn't fade. However you know that this pace isn't as high as the pace of the attacker so the leader as well as the domestique will loose time and you don't even know if the time the leader looses is less than the time he would have lost if the domestique had followed the attacker (because of 1.)

From whats come out after the race it seems this was more of a political (Within team mgmnt) decision than a tactical decision.

 

[greenedge]

I mean today once again they did everything wrong.

For a team with so much attention to detail they seem to screw up tactically much more often than random french teams for example.

What did they do wrong?

Froome riding like a headless chicken on the front for no reason. Burning the doms with the TTT coming up tomorrow.

At least this way there was no one minute time gap It's working for them at this TDF, other stage races and increasingly in the classics. Of course we can laugh at them when they screw up (the train can be very boring), but for now they're going pretty well.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

No wonder Sky did so well they transferred in Nieve after a week without anyone noticing.

Hmm seems I screwed up when I looked at the start list, looked at the 10 man team not the final 9 man and in doing so somehow confused Nieve and Roche. I meant Roche/Poels/Kennaugh as mountain men who aren't known for great TT's.

I think Kennaugh is a very decent time trialist

................

 

[King Boonen]

If 2 TDFs in 4 years and possibly a 3rd in 6 is tactically inept I'd like to see what they could do with good tactics...

Most WorldTour teams would kill for a list like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Team_Sky_wins

 

[Netserk]

Re:

If 2 TDFs in 4 years and possibly a 3rd in 6 is tactically inept I'd like to see what they could do with good tactics...

Most WorldTour teams would kill for a list like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Team_Sky_wins

Says a lot about the amount of extra watts they have.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re: Re:

If 2 TDFs in 4 years and possibly a 3rd in 6 is tactically inept I'd like to see what they could do with good tactics...

Most WorldTour teams would kill for a list like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Team_Sky_wins

Says a lot about the amount of extra watts they have.

No, low weight with just skin, bones & leg muscles. Maybe they came up with something that reduces bone density

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

If 2 TDFs in 4 years and possibly a 3rd in 6 is tactically inept I'd like to see what they could do with good tactics...

Most WorldTour teams would kill for a list like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Team_Sky_wins

Says a lot about the amount of extra watts they have.

No, low weight with just skin, bones & leg muscles. Maybe they came up with something that reduces bone density

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteoporosis

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

[

If 2 TDFs in 4 years and possibly a 3rd in 6 is tactically inept I'd like to see what they could do with good tactics...

Most WorldTour teams would kill for a list like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Team_Sky_wins

Says a lot about the amount of extra MONEY they have.

nothing special compared to Astana, Etixx , BMC, katiusha, who are on same level financially.

Heck i'd say Saxo's palmares over that stretch is more impressive even though they've only come close financially for the last 2 years

edit: plus their biggest semi-classic win is Harelbeke this year. ask anybody who know about cycling they'll tell you that tactis are much more important in one day races then in stage races

 

[SergeDeM]

Re: Re:

If 2 TDFs in 4 years and possibly a 3rd in 6 is tactically inept I'd like to see what they could do with good tactics...

Most WorldTour teams would kill for a list like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Team_Sky_wins

Says a lot about the amount of extra watts they have.

No, low weight with just skin, bones & leg muscles. Maybe they came up with something that reduces bone density

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteoporosis

I LOL'd.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

[

If 2 TDFs in 4 years and possibly a 3rd in 6 is tactically inept I'd like to see what they could do with good tactics...

Most WorldTour teams would kill for a list like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Team_Sky_wins

Says a lot about the amount of extra MONEY they have.

nothing special compared to Astana, Etixx , BMC, katiusha, who are on same level financially.

Heck i'd say Saxo's palmares over that stretch is more impressive even though they've only come close financially for the last 2 years

edit: plus their biggest semi-classic win is Harelbeke this year. ask anybody who know about cycling they'll tell you that tactis are much more important in one day races then in stage races

Last year Tinkoff had less than half the budget of Sky

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

[

If 2 TDFs in 4 years and possibly a 3rd in 6 is tactically inept I'd like to see what they could do with good tactics...

Most WorldTour teams would kill for a list like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Team_Sky_wins

Says a lot about the amount of extra MONEY they have.

nothing special compared to Astana, Etixx , BMC, katiusha, who are on same level financially.

Heck i'd say Saxo's palmares over that stretch is more impressive even though they've only come close financially for the last 2 years

edit: plus their biggest semi-classic win is Harelbeke this year. ask anybody who know about cycling they'll tell you that tactis are much more important in one day races then in stage races

You can of course look for yourself and decide:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Team_Tinkoff-Saxo_wins

 

[Billie]

2010-2015:

Sky biggest wins: 2 Tours, Olympic timetrial, couple paris nices, romandies and dauphines, worlds timetrial

Saxo: 1 tour and 1 giro OR 2 giros, 2 Vueltas, 2 Rondes, Roubaix, amstel, worldss timetrial,

 

[therhodeo]

I wonder if the person making sure every criterium win Sky pulls is listed is a paid employee.

 

[SergeDeM]

Yeah, most teams wish they were as inept as Sky. Money talks but you still have to manage it. BMC anyone?

 

[djpbaltimore]

Just like SKY, I think a lot of Tinkoff's success also boils down to raw wattage. Contador being the prime example, but Majka and Rogers last year also come to mind. Tactics will only take you so far. Part of SKY's success has been that they know who they are. When you have the guy with the most power, use the tactics that maximize this advantage. I think Tinkoff would've tried the same strategy if Contador had not crashed out last year. So far in this tour, SKY have done well at being at the front at the crucial times, but not wearing themselves out doing so. Hopefully they learned from 2013 and they don't blow themselves out trying to chase everything down on Mountain stages.

 

[Billie]

2011 Ronde, 2012 Vuelta are two prime examples of big races that were definatly not won by raw wattages.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

2010-2015:

Sky biggest wins: 2 Tours, Olympic timetrial, couple paris nices, romandies and dauphines.

Saxo: 1 tour and 1 giro OR 2 giros, 2 Vueltas, 2 Rondes, Roubaix, amstel, world timetrial,

Why do you give Saxo a time-trial WC and not Sky? Showing you biases?

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

2010-2015:

Sky biggest wins: 2 Tours, Olympic timetrial, couple paris nices, romandies and dauphines.

Saxo: 1 tour and 1 giro OR 2 giros, 2 Vueltas, 2 Rondes, Roubaix, amstel, world timetrial,

Why do you give Saxo a time-trial WC and not Sky? Showing you biases?

missed that one sorry.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

2010-2015:

Sky biggest wins: 2 Tours, Olympic timetrial, couple paris nices, romandies and dauphines.

Saxo: 1 tour and 1 giro OR 2 giros, 2 Vueltas, 2 Rondes, Roubaix, amstel, world timetrial,

Why do you give Saxo a time-trial WC and not Sky? Showing you biases?

On the other hand there's missing some one-week stage races for Saxo...