Is UAE Over the Top?

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..again, the main thing is the absolute ease with which Pog (and now the rest of UAE, in relative terms) dominate, and do so easily in 24-25. Before that, sure, Pog was strong, even the best, but the utter ease in dominating was not there. Suddenly in 2024 on he became the long-raid guy, and now gifting team-mates, and laughing and smiling at the end of a race when others are dying, mouths agape.

it is very, very reminiscent of armstrong and even breakthrough EPO-fueled performances (Chiappucci at Sestrieres in 1992).
 
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Jul 16, 2024
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Well, that's the thing about UAE, isn't it? Matxin and Gianetti are unapologetic because they don't think they've done anything wrong. Sure, they had some 'bad eggs, but who hadn't (lol x 1000)

I mean, who knows if the same riders would be doing as well on other teams (i.e. if UAE had never existed)? But I just cannot get on board with the characters running or heavily involved with that team.

Perhaps Johan and Lance can make a comeback? :eek:
Speaking of Lance i feel like he is getting more and more traction. Like the huge anti doping rider Sir Bradley Wiggins is now fine with doing podcasts and stuff with him.
 
Speaking of Lance i feel like he is getting more and more traction. Like the huge anti doping rider Sir Bradley Wiggins is now fine with doing podcasts and stuff with him.
not with me. I have no idea why anyone would use him or Bruyneel for reference for anything to do with cycling at all, other than to point out how blood vector doping can turn the natural hierarchy on its head.
 
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Vine...?

Seriously!?

On par with TopGanna on a pan flat TT.

The water is powerful over at UAE.

If he can rival TopGanna on pan flat, are we then looking at the next ITT World Champ, since he will presumably benefit from the hilly course.

Just goes to show it is the entire team that has had a jump.
Ganna seems quite a ways off his top form and Vine has been crushing TTs for a while, so whatever he's on is not new. But sure, another top 5 wcitt seems likely.
 
Ganna seems quite a ways off his top form and Vine has been crushing TTs for a while, so whatever he's on is not new. But sure, another top 5 wcitt seems likely.

but Ganna's time was considered absolutely crushing...until Vine.

Vine could have potentially beaten Remco last year at the Worlds ITT, but crashed, I think (?).

So again, since 24, some results that appear supercharged, by yet another rider on that one team, run by one of the most doped riders, who has managed riders and teams with systemic doping previously.

I also remember Bahrain suddenly becoming ridiculously dominant for about one season. Then two police raids later, they have completely fallen off the map in comparison.
 
but Ganna's time was considered absolutely crushing...until Vine.

Vine could have potentially beaten Remco last year at the Worlds ITT, but crashed, I think (?).

So again, since 24, some results that appear supercharged, by yet another rider on that one team, run by one of the most doped riders, who has managed riders and teams with systemic doping previously.

I also remember Bahrain suddenly becoming ridiculously dominant for about one season. Then two police raids later, they have completely fallen off the map in comparison.

I don't think the comparison to Bahrain is all that apt, as they don't seem to have the same budget. (Not that these things are public information, I think?) UAE has a huge budget and is not afraid to use it. In a sense, doping is the cheapest way to improve performance, as EPO is not all that expensive. Of course, you have to pay off doctors or testers to make sure you don't get caught or reprimanded like Bahrain. But it actually seems like one of the riskier ways to get ahead if you have infinite shekels to throw at the problem. Instead, you offer mega money to the guys who test the best on the ergobike, which includes Vine, King of Zwift, and you spend a lot on wind tunnels and other equipment tweaks. Then you dope only the minimum amount necessary to achieve your goal. The fact that a UAE bro is able to be highly competitive at TTs is perhaps the worst* evidence that they are doping (more than the other teams)...

If you are complaining because he's kind of a late bloomer (2024 being Vine's 28th year on Earth), I think that's explained by the learning curve of riding around in the (semi) pro peloton, which he started doing about a decade later than most of his colleagues. (Heck, forget the peloton, the man can still barely get round a TT course with the rubber side down. And he claims he would have won the Vuelta TT if he didn't botch the first corner.)

Vine's production in terms of UCI points actually did not spike in 2024, FWIW. We also don't have a pre-UAE Vine to compare against.

*So what is better evidence, IMO? Riders like Domen Novak, who you've never seen or heard of before they're on UAE, suddenly riding with the strength of 10 men in humble service of their leaders. Novak is never going to draw as much public scrutiny because he's not the one winning, if he did get busted they could throw him under the bus, and no one can even really estimate his w/kg because his most crucial performances are not up the Angliru. Of course most of the time they're gonna hire someone who's more of a household name like Pollitt or Wellens to be the daily breakaway crusher, which will raise even fewer eyebrows, but the fact remains that it's impossible to estimate how strong these riders "should" be at their given role, which gives UAE more leeway to dope them.
 
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Riders like Domen Novak, who you've never seen or heard of before they're on UAE, suddenly riding with the strength of 10 men in humble service of their leaders
I wouldn't go that far. For example, Domen Novak was notably very strong on stage 20 of the 2022 Giro the day Hindley effectively won that race - riding for Bahrain. And while I don't doubt UAE are doping I see similar complaints today as when Sky rose in 2011-2012. Money is why.