Is Walsh on the Sky bandwagon?

[Benotti69]

And then Dicky went right back into full program. Julich, with all the he was/wasn't doping at CSC debate, still has the 1999-03 window to cast doubt on any unrepentant doper logic. Even looking at Tyler and what he said- doping was accessed by those who sought it out at CSC. They weren't hooking up bloodbags in team buses between stages. Did he dope at CSC? It's possible, but winning PN on tactics when he wasn't the strongest rider in the race and a few TTs (which was always his specialty) is hardly proof of an case closed doper.

That Sky found him too toxic for them says all one needs to know about whether Jullich was a full on doper or not.

If his Mrs is a 'Betsy' type, how come we have not heard from her? Betsy is a member of CN forums and posted quite a bit.

 

[thehog]

And then Dicky went right back into full program. Julich, with all the he was/wasn't doping at CSC debate, still has the 1999-03 window to cast doubt on any unrepentant doper logic. Even looking at Tyler and what he said- doping was accessed by those who sought it out at CSC. They weren't hooking up bloodbags in team buses between stages. Did he dope at CSC? It's possible, but winning PN on tactics when he wasn't the strongest rider in the race and a few TTs (which was always his specialty) is hardly proof of an case closed doper.

I think if you close your eyes hard enough and dream a beautiful dream, Julich will be clean at CSC. At least in your mind.

You keep believing son

And Virenque went back to full program by no longer focusing on winning the Tour but going for the mountains jersey?

You sure do know your cycling

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Julich's a good dude. Anyone who knows him personally was aware that he was not proud of his 1998 3rd place at the Tour. His wife is basically his own "Betsy Andreau."

Virenque, on the other hand, is an arrogant tool. I think that likely has more to do with it than who was the bigger doper in the 1990s.

Do you know Virenque personally? Why is Bobby Doolich a good fellow and Richard a doper/tool of the 1990's while poor Richard was made to dope with Epo by the nasty Spaniards and Italians?

Do explain.

 

[martinvickers]

That Sky found him too toxic for them says all one needs to know about whether Jullich was a full on doper or not.

If his Mrs is a 'Betsy' type, how come we have not heard from her? Betsy is a member of CN forums and posted quite a bit.

Why do you think you've heard of Betsy? Her Forum membership?

 

[thehog]

Why do you think you've heard of Betsy? Her Forum membership?

Because Julich is a wuss and it took him 15 years to give half a confession.

Frankie coughed up after about 4 and Bad a Boy Virenque took 2 years to tell all.

Out of all that Julich apparently is a cool dude.

Go figure.

 

[Benotti69]

Why do you think you've heard of Betsy? Her Forum membership?

And I suppose Mrs Jullich never thought to ring Walsh. Betsy heard Armstrong talk about his doping to doctors in 97, Walsh wrote about it in 2002? Betsy was telling everyone about it for a long time. I think Mrs Jullich aint be doing jacksh!t.

 

[martinvickers]

Because Julich is a wuss and it took him 15 years to give half a confession.

Frankie coughed up after about 4 and Bad a Boy Virenque took 2 years to tell all.

Out of all that Julich apparently is a cool dude.

Go figure.

Virenque took two years to tell all - after being caught red-handed! It's not the same, hogster, and you know it. Hell, even Lance copped to his charge quicker than that ;-)

Which doesn't answer the question - why do you think the poster knows about Betsy? It's not forum membership. surely?

 

[martinvickers]

And I suppose Mrs Jullich never thought to ring Walsh. Betsy heard Armstrong talk about his doping to doctors in 97, Walsh wrote about it in 2002? Betsy was telling everyone about it for a long time. I think Mrs Jullich aint be doing jacksh!t.

Betsy heard a detailed point by point confession from Armstrong's own mouth. Did Mrs Julich?

But, hell, let's not let facts get in the way, eh boss? Would bring down the whole tone of the place...

 

[thehog]

Virenque took two years to tell all - after being caught red-handed! It's not the same, hogster, and you know it. Hell, even Lance copped to his charge quicker than that ;-)

Which doesn't answer the question - why do you think the poster knows about Betsy? It's not forum membership. surely?

Many here know her. She was a regular here for a while.

(Edit)

But Virenque cried! Cried a lot. That counts

 

[pmcg76]

Because Julich is a wuss and it took him 15 years to give half a confession.

Frankie coughed up after about 4 and Bad a Boy Virenque took 2 years to tell all.

Out of all that Julich apparently is a cool dude.

Go figure.

Well considering there was no evidence against Julich other than performances for 15 years, why would Julich out himself??

Virenque was still denying he doped after all his team-mates had admitted doping as well as implicating Virenque and Willy Voet had written his book detailing Virenque's doping. Apart from the French fans, Virenque was an unpopular rider within the peloton even before the Festina affair and of course was the first cyclist to produce a book claiming his innocence.

To even suggest that Virenque and Julich were similar case's is just pure folly.

 

[martinvickers]

Many here know her. She was a regular here for a while.

(Edit)

But Virenque cried! Cried a lot. That counts

I know - my point is simply that being a member of CN forum is not the thing that made Betsy..well, Betsy, and certainly not what gave her importance in the story. So it's just a bit silly to say, oh we've never heard of Mrs Julich, she never posted here, unlike Betsy, therefore she can be dismissed...which was frankly, pretty clearly the connotation of B's original response.

I don't know if Julich's a saint or a sh*thead. Honestly. Not a clue, and I make no judgment on it. But I do know self-justifying b***sh*t when I read it - and B's response was a simple piece of ad hominem because he didn't seem to want to acknowledge the possiblity that Julich wasn't the demon B needed for his ongoing narrative.

If he'd said..."I met him, he's actually a beep"..or "but actually he did this, or that nasty thing"...that would have been legit - but this was just silly, it was petty. And sometimes it's good to point out to people the basic silliness of their arguments.

As for Virenque, he was a tw^t. He'd have been one even if he was clean as a whistle. The idea of giving him some sort of credit for FINALLY admitting the blindingly obvious when he'd long since been specifically outed is just....farcical.

 

[thehog]

Well considering there was no evidence against Julich other than performances for 15 years, why would Julich out himself??

Virenque was still denying he doped after all his team-mates had admitted doping as well as implicating Virenque and Willy Voet had written his book detailing Virenque's doping. Apart from the French fans, Virenque was an unpopular rider within the peloton even before the Festina affair and of course was the first cyclist to produce a book claiming his innocence.

To even suggest that Virenque and Julich were similar case's is just pure folly.

I don't disagree. It is stupid making comparisons but Virenque appears to be Skybait for the bots to beat up on. Only because Ellingsworth said so and tore out his photo for the Walsh bible.

Truth be know is Virenque was the first. The first to tell the whole story as a cyclist. True he confessed under pressure of a prison sentence but he told the complete story and set himself free.

He had some very thoughtful and kind words to say when Pantani died.

At the nobody wanted anyone talking. The UCI certainly didn't and they appointed Jens Friggjn Voigt as a riders rep who told us the peloton had cleaned up by 1999!!

Virenque also assisted in the French creation of the bio-passport which came well before the passport was ever conceived.

But Julich is not some messiah. He held onto his secret as long as profitable.

 

[thehog]

I know - my point is simply that being a member of CN forum is not the thing that made Betsy..well, Betsy, and certainly not what gave her importance in the story. So it's just a bit silly to say, oh we've never heard of Mrs Julich, she never posted here, unlike Betsy, therefore she can be dismissed...which was frankly, pretty clearly the connotation of B's original response.

I don't know if Julich's a saint or a sh*thead. Honestly. Not a clue, and I make no judgment on it. But I do know self-justifying b***sh*t when I read it - and B's response was a simple piece of ad hominem because he didn't seem to want to acknowledge the possiblity that Julich wasn't the demon B needed for his ongoing narrative.

If he'd said..."I met him, he's actually a beep"..or "but actually he did this, or that nasty thing"...that would have been legit - but this was just silly, it was petty. And sometimes it's good to point out to people the basic silliness of their arguments.

As for Virenque, he was a tw^t. He'd have been one even if he was clean as a whistle. The idea of giving him some sort of credit for FINALLY admitting the blindingly obvious when he'd long since been specifically outed is just....farcical.

The Festina trials was gripping drama.

Virenque did a massive turn around one day in court and asked to speak when he confessed all.

It was a pure French black comedy!

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/oct00/oct25news.shtml

Worth reading how it all unfolded.

Virenque wore the yellow jersey in Pau in 1992, and from then on his popularity soared. He played up to the public and reaped the benefits, although he was not held in high regard by the conservatives in the peloton. His generosity in donating his Tour de France winnings to the refugees in Rwanda in 1994 will be remembered, as will his mercenary abilities after he sold the exclusive rights to his marriage to Paris-Match.

Virenque's popularity in France has always belied his ability but in cycling, a high profile public image can be a lot of value to a sponsor. Despite having only 18 UCI wins in his 10 year career, he still asked for (and got) 6 million francs ($US 800,000) per year due to his celebrity status.

 

[pmcg76]

I don't disagree. It is stupid making comparisons but Virenque appears to be Skybait for the bots to beat up on. Only because Ellingsworth said so and tore out his photo for the Walsh bible.

Truth be know is Virenque was the first. The first to tell the whole story as a cyclist. True he confessed under pressure of a prison sentence but he told the complete story and set himself free.

He had some very thoughtful and kind words to say when Pantani died.

At the nobody wanted anyone talking. The UCI certainly didn't and they appointed Jens Friggjn Voigt as a riders rep who told us the peloton had cleaned up by 1999!!

Virenque also assisted in the French creation of the bio-passport which came well before the passport was ever conceived.

But Julich is not some messiah. He held onto his secret as long as profitable.

Well I don't think anyone thinks Julich is a messiah. There is just no comparison between Julich and Virenque in terms of how they admitted. How many riders have come forward to admit doping without being firstly implicated? There is no way Virenque would have done so to use that as stick to beat Julich is stupid.

I do think it is silly to hate Virenque as a doper whilst having dopers on your own team as SKY have. Perhaps there is an issue here about those who engaged in doping because it was that or get out of the sport and those who willingly embraced doping as part of their career.

Perhaps some people differentiate between these two groups, the hard-core doper V the reluctant doper. I know former Festina rider Jean Cyril Robin said that Virenque and Pascal Herve were the doping ring-leaders at Festina and their motto was "always more".

 

[thehog]

Well I don't think anyone thinks Julich is a messiah. There is just no comparison between Julich and Virenque in terms of how they admitted. How many riders have come forward to admit doping without being firstly implicated? There is no way Virenque would have done so to use that as stick to beat Julich is stupid.

I do think it is silly to hate Virenque as a doper whilst having dopers on your own team as SKY have. Perhaps there is an issue here about those who engaged in doping because it was that or get out of the sport and those who willingly embraced doping as part of their career.

Perhaps some people differentiate between these two groups, the hard-core doper V the reluctant doper. I know former Festina rider Jean Cyril Robin said that Virenque and Pascal Herve were the doping ring-leaders at Festina and their motto was "always more".

Yes but confessing in 1998-2000 compared to 2013 is very different.

Doing so back then was really spitting in the soup. The sport was in crisis, the UCI was in denial and the police were likely to lock you up!

Virenque's confession meant he was charged and received a suspended jail sentence. Julich never had that fear. But BobbyJ was still too scared and profited from pretending to be clean.

Virenque love him or hate at least faced the consequences.

 

[bobbins]

I don't disagree. It is stupid making comparisons but Virenque appears to be Skybait for the bots to beat up on. Only because Ellingsworth said so and tore out his photo for the Walsh bible.

Truth be know is Virenque was the first. The first to tell the whole story as a cyclist. True he confessed under pressure of a prison sentence but he told the complete story and set himself free.

He had some very thoughtful and kind words to say when Pantani died.

At the nobody wanted anyone talking. The UCI certainly didn't and they appointed Jens Friggjn Voigt as a riders rep who told us the peloton had cleaned up by 1999!!

Virenque also assisted in the French creation of the bio-passport which came well before the passport was ever conceived.

But Julich is not some messiah. He held onto his secret as long as profitable.

Rod's going to look pretty stupid one day!

And Dave B is going to get another bo11ocking from Sky.

 

[pastronef]

The Festina trials was gripping drama.

Virenque did a massive turn around one day in court and asked to speak when he confessed all.

It was a pure French black comedy!

 

[Benotti69]

Betsy heard a detailed point by point confession from Armstrong's own mouth. Did Mrs Julich?

How do you know what Mrs Jullich was doing? How do we know she didn't put the EPO in the butter dish?

I am not the one making claims about Mrs Jullich being just like Betsy.

I am pointing out that she aint done jack sh!t about being anti doping!

But, hell, let's not let facts get in the way, eh boss? Would bring down the whole tone of the place...

But then you love to attack posters MV, then cry about playinh balls when it is returned.

Reread the thread horse!

 

[Benotti69]

Why do you think you've heard of Betsy? Her Forum membership?

What is stopping Mrs jullich ringing Walsh, Kimmage, Shane Stokes, Rupert Guinness or other and telling all she knows about the doping in the peloton as did Betsy with Walsh?

Remember Marty old chap, i did not make the claim that Mrs Jullich was another Betsy, i merely pointed that Betsy was and is extremely vociferous in her anti doping, where is Mrs Jullich, cant be too ahrd to find her in this age of interweb enlightenment surely or was someone talking out of their porverbial? Defending those who speak out of their proverbial regularly........

 

[thehog]

If only I could rip this page out of the Internet!

He's is looking most debonair. Rod will have a heart attack.

 

[martinvickers]

How do you know what Mrs Jullich was doing? How do we know she didn't put the EPO in the butter dish?

I am not the one making claims about Mrs Jullich being just like Betsy.

Well, we have a had various people tell us exactly who was in that hospital room, and Mrs Julich wasn't one of them - anything useful to add, or just keep avoiding the facts?

Betsy didn't choose to be put in that position; she was put there involuntarily. How she reacted is forever to her credit, but the point remains that what she did, in the deposition, was unique to her specific and unique circumstances - i.e. an eye witness to the godfather's full confession. And lets be clear, Frankie retired before it all came out. Walsh was contacted after that.

The rest of the post is barely legible trolling, and not frankly worthy of response.

 

[martinvickers]

If only I could rip this page out of the Internet!

He's is looking most debonair. Rod will have a heart attack.

Leaving Rod aside - you have to admit, it's a complete p*sstake!

 

[the sceptic]

Leaving Rod aside - you have to admit, it's a complete p*sstake!

Have you even read Virenques books?

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Julich gets points here for being one of Darth Armstrong's worst enemies in the peloton.

 

[martinvickers]

Have you even read Virenques books?

I'm afraid I fail to see the relevance.