Isaac Del Toro thread

[red_flanders]

MOD HAT:

This isn't the Roglic thread. Please stop, everyone. Thank you. Please don't reply to this in the thread, per comments about moderation.

If folks want to draw relevant comparisons or tactics, or whatever, fine. But bickering about Roglic vs Del Toro, however THAT became a thing, isn't the topic of this thread. Thanks.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Finestre will be almost a fresh 1 hour effort. Completely different from today's stage.

Its still stage 20 and a 200 km stage and there are some smallar climbs on the menu beforehand.

 

[zlev11]

I feel sorry for Del Toro; he was really in a situation that ultimately proved too much for him.

yes, the race finally went to the high mountains

 

[CyclistAbi]

So, considering stage 16 outcome, any predictions, will del Toro and UAE be able to keep the leaders jersey till the very end?

 

[Mayomaniac]

According to an Italian website they actually changed the size of his chainrings at the last minute yesterday, from 55/38 to 54/40, always with the same 11-34 cassette. The reasoning for giving him heavier gears on the steeper climbs, god knows...
Source: https://www.bicidastrada.it/colnago-v5rs-di-del-toro-pedivelle-cortissime/
Edit: the article is from yesterday and mentions that they changed his front chainrings for today at the last minute to a 2t bigger small one, like the one that Ayuso always uses. That could have a bit of an impact.

 

[Extinction]

So, considering stage 16 outcome, any predictions, will del Toro and UAE be able to keep the leaders jersey till the very end?

Obviously that's difficult to predict. It depends whether this was del Toro's bad day or he reached his limit. In the former case, he still has a chance, in the latter, no. I hope he comes around. After all, his was a minor crisis, not the major one of Ayuso. This tells me he can contain the damage, but whether that's enough to win or podium is anyone's guess at this point. Tomorrow is another hard stage so we should no more then.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I mean Ayuso is injured, referencing Ayuso is hence irrelevant. Del Toro on the other hand did AFAIK crash and hurt his knee but seems the least affected by the injuries. And he lost seconds today and van Aert cracked his team too. If UAE gets out of this one and del Toro wins it then a big chapeau up front.

 

[SafeBet]

He rode his heart out today and defended the jersey.
If this was his bad day he still has a chance to finish on the podium or in the top5.

 

[Cookster15]

He rode his heart out today and defended the jersey.
If this was his bad day he still has a chance to finish on the podium or in the top5.

Agree and well said. But Abi asked if will del Toro and UAE will be able to keep the leaders jersey till the very end? I think that is doubtful now. Del Toro has 31 seconds on Carapaz who looks strong. Finestre looks too much.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

According to an Italian website they actually changed the size of his chainrings at the last minute yesterday, from 55/38 to 54/40, always with the same 11-34 cassette. The reasoning for giving him heavier gears on the steeper climbs, god knows...
Source: https://www.bicidastrada.it/colnago-v5rs-di-del-toro-pedivelle-cortissime/
Edit: the article is from yesterday and mentions that they changed his front chainrings for today at the last minute to a 2t bigger small one, like the one that Ayuso always uses. That could have a bit of an impact.

So Ayuso wanted Del Toro to climb as bad as him? Mission not quite accomplished.

 

[Mayomaniac]

So Ayuso wanted Del Toro to climb as bad as him? Mission not quite accomplished.

Nah, but sounds like the weirdest story since Kelderman refusing to use a smaller chainring on the Rettenbachferner and paying for it (Rabo told him it would be better).

 

[pelotonIQ]

Toro could very well lose pink tomorrow because after showing weakness today his rivals will definitely test him again to see how his legs are after a brutal day.

One idea is WvA as a satellite rider waiting on top of Le Motte, Yates drops Toro and connects with WvA or after Mortirolo.

 

[red_flanders]

So, pretty interesting stage. Del Toro landed somewhere between predictions I think, which I guess isn't really surprising since there's a tendency to overreact on a given day. Bruyneel thought he'd win today and show he was the strongest in the race, while many here and elsewhere thought he'd be eliminated today from win or podium contention. I really still don't know. Which is actually cool and this race is really quite fun to watch.

Today it looked like too many meters of climbing in the legs and he paid for it, but he didn't collapse, either. Still in pink, which might have surprised a few. Very interested to see what he does for the rest of the race. My take right now is that he has the goods to compete for GT wins in the future, but maybe needs some depth of form or a year or two more to solidify the endurance and compete consistently, regardless of course.

I could also see him still hanging on to win this. Not my bet today, but I'd not rule it out. Should be interesting!

 

[hayneplane]

Today makes it even more frustrating that they didn’t let him strike while the iron was at its hottest.

He could have had a buffer that would have insulated him from a regular bad day.

As of now unless this was bad day rather than a trend downwards then holding onto the lead looks very difficult.

 

[Oldman]

It's clear the first real mountain stage was a bit too much for him, but it can still be true that he was the strongest in the first two weeks. I think he was. You're talking about the best climber in the race, clearly he's not.

Still too early to assume he can't do more. Carapaz was good but did his customary over commitment and lost the time that allowed DT to come back. UAE should expect him to relax a bit until the consequential stages if we hope to see his best, maybe.

 

[YavorD]

Today makes it even more frustrating that they didn’t let him strike while the iron was at its hottest.

He could have had a buffer that would have insulated him from a regular bad day.

As of now unless this was bad day rather than a trend downwards then holding onto the lead looks very difficult.

UAE gave him a lot of freedom.

Besides, it's not unreasonable to guess that if he had to expand more energy to open a bigger gap, he would rop even more time today.

All in all, I think Del Toro was in much better position to start week 3 than he could hope after week one, so we can't really blame UAE for not letting him.

 

[staubsauger]

Judging from Pogacars 2023 Loze implosion and his subsequent Vosges performance I wouldn't even rule out Del Torro attacks on the Finestre again!

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

UAE gave him a lot of freedom.

Besides, it's not unreasonable to guess that if he had to expand more energy to open a bigger gap, he would rop even more time today.

All in all, I think Del Toro was in much better position to start week 3 than he could hope after week one, so we can't really blame UAE for not letting him.

Sure we can, and I do, because I think their motivation was Ayuso, and not Del Toro.

 

[topcat]

Del Toro will bounce back.

View: https://youtu.be/tMrcrtfrYeE?si=QDZSobGL_dI__Cju

 

[YavorD]

Sure we can, and I do, because I think their motivation was Ayuso, and not Del Toro.

Yeah, well, if they left Del Toro to work with Bernal/Arensman/Carapaz on Sunday and he was dropped, you would probably blame UAE for being irresponsible to leave 21 years old kid with "old foxes" like Bernal and Carapaz 100km from the line while having the strongest team.

Fact is, keeping the Maglia rosa protected plus keeping your second card open made a lot of sense at the time.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Yeah, well, if they left Del Toro to work with Bernal/Arensman/Carapaz on Sunday and he was dropped, you would probably blame UAE for being irresponsible to leave 21 years old kid with "old foxes" like Bernal and Carapaz 100km from the line while having the strongest team.

Fact is, keeping the Maglia rosa protected plus keeping your second card open made a lot of sense at the time.

Fact is, they failed miserably today, and most of the team energy has been to keep Ayuso relevant, and not have Ayuso help anyone but Ayuso, If they don't have pink on Sunday, it's their adherence to helping a selfish, busted rider, instead of they guy in the leader's jersey. McNulty sure is keeping that top 15 ranking alive though...

 

[YavorD]

Fact is, they failed miserably today, and most of the team energy has been to keep Ayuso relevant, and not have Ayuso help anyone but Ayuso, If they don't have pink on Sunday, it's their adherence to helping a selfish, busted rider, instead of they guy in the leader's jersey. McNulty sure is keeping that top 15 ranking alive though...

If Del Toro is not strong enough and he is dropped by 7 riders, like today, that's not UAE, nor Ayuso's fault.

Edit: Maybe it is their fault, they didn't train him like Pogacar to destroy everyone on every terrain. How could they? "Abandoned by the team".

 

[red_flanders]

Fact is, they failed miserably today, and most of the team energy has been to keep Ayuso relevant, and not have Ayuso help anyone but Ayuso, If they don't have pink on Sunday, it's their adherence to helping a selfish, busted rider, instead of they guy in the leader's jersey. McNulty sure is keeping that top 15 ranking alive though...

I tend to think they did the right thing on Stage 15, but I can see arguments both ways. How might you have run it differently? Were there other stages, like 9 where you think they messed up?

I wonder, and this is a more general comment not (solely) directed at you, if UAE get a bit more criticism than is warranted because Ayuso isn't the most humble of characters, and Pog/UAE have been destroying everyone through sheer force? For me there's certainly a bit of the former.

Anyway. Genuinely curious what you think they should have done differently. Thanks!

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I tend to think they did the right thing on Stage 15, but I can see arguments both ways. How might you have run it differently? Were there other stages, like 9 where you think they messed up?

I wonder, and this is a more general comment not (solely) directed at you, if UAE get a bit more criticism than is warranted because Ayuso isn't the most humble of characters, and Pog/UAE have been destroying everyone through sheer force? For me there's certainly a bit of the former.

Anyway. Genuinely curious what you think they should have done differently. Thanks!

I will go with Bernal's assessment, as he was there, and on 15, Del Toro looked extremely good. He gains time, he has time to give. Instead, he has less time to give. Also, Ayuso should have been there to chase attacks in the end. I'm thinking of the Gee attack that caused Del Toro to have to respond, while Ayuso was sitting on his wheel.

I am not saying that he would have won the Giro there, I'm saying he has a minute more to lose now if he'd gone with Bernal.

And yes, Ayuso is acidic on team dynamics, becasue the only person's name he remembers is Ayuso.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I tend to think they did the right thing on Stage 15, but I can see arguments both ways. How might you have run it differently? Were there other stages, like 9 where you think they messed up?

I wonder, and this is a more general comment not (solely) directed at you, if UAE get a bit more criticism than is warranted because Ayuso isn't the most humble of characters, and Pog/UAE have been destroying everyone through sheer force? For me there's certainly a bit of the former.

Anyway. Genuinely curious what you think they should have done differently. Thanks!

Then again, I do not discount that his name is not Pogacar, and a 3 week GT at his age, is harder on the legs (EDIT: and mind) than anything he's ever done.