Isaac Del Toro thread

[SafeBet]

For me there were two moments when he made mistakes.

1. After Carapaz acceleration which almost brings back Yates he should pull to close that gap. It was necessary to maintain Carapaz's pace for another minute and he will have everything under control.

Nothing would be under control. He would have to close an indefinite number of attacks from both Yates and Carapaz as he was doing before letting Yates go. And at some point he would crack.
It was a very difficult situation to manage for someone who never looked like the best climber in the race before today (long climbs), let alone for a 21 years old rider with no experience whatsoever in GT key stages.

He showed panache for threw weeks and I thank him for that. Think we should focus on the positive things coming out of this Giro.

 

[noob]

This is it, Del Toro was afraid to lose the race to Carapaz in the final climb to Sestriere, but not to Yates. Totally rational and smart.

After seeing this I'm changing my mind about everything. The way Del Toro has talked about himself all this giro tells me he is not that confident in himself. The fact that he can say now after the fact that he probably could have win this giro is because he's realising how good he is. That is what I see. Not arrogance.

Remember how he looked yesterday when they asked if he should attack? Everyone thought that meant he had something on his mind? I don't think he did. I think he didn't think he had it in him. He is possibly on par with Almeida and Ayuso in reality, but the latter two have inflated confidence while Del Toro doesn't seem to have confidence for even the level he is at. I've not seen a rider this authentic in interviews for a looong time. Absolutely likable.

 

[Red Rick]

Nothing would be under control. He would have to close an indefinite number of attacks from both Yates and Carapaz as he was doing before letting Yates go. And at some point he would crack.
It was a very difficult situation to manage for someone who never looked like the best climber in the race before today (long climbs), let alone for a 21 years old rider with no experience whatsoever in GT key stages.

He showed panache for threw weeks and I thank him for that. Think we should focus on the positive things coming out of this Giro.

A lot of this is on UAE who should at least map out the scenarios and then drip feed the information and instructions so that Del Toro can follow them.

UAE meanwhile did not plan beyond "HODL".

 

[noob]

But of course; if Del Toro was here with 2025 Almeida instead of Ayuso this race looks very different.

 

[Unchained]

I was always put off that nobody in media asked Del Toro if Pogacar gave him any advice, it was reported in first few days that he sent Del Toro a text.

 

[Red Rick]

But of course; if Del Toro was here with 2025 Almeida instead of Ayuso this race looks very different.

Almeida versus this EF Leroy Jenkins attack on the Finestre would be hilarious. Probably starts in Grupetto and is 2 minutes ahead by the time they crest Finestre.

 

[theyoungest]

I think Carapaz' usual tactics came to bite him in the a$$ today. He always lets others do the work, doesn't really cooperate, and then attacks. Del Toro didn't want to play that game.

But when the gap was one minute Del Toro (or at least his DS) should have realized that Carapaz or no Carapaz, you're going to lose the Giro so you have to take responsibility... and he never once took it. That's just dumb.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Overall great race and no point in being gleefull about a 21 year old folding a bit under pressure. I'm really curious of what his actually feeling and level were on Finestre, maybe we'll never find out.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of him not feeling super strong and UAE being incredible paranoid about Carapaz (I feel he has gotten under their skin, mugged them twice these last two weeks when their team looked unbeatable at some point and his history of play-acting against Pogacar etc.) as well as being genuinely worried that he is not yet at the level to sustain a super long climb and thought he might genuinely lose the podium.
I think they talked about that a lot before the stage or were in his ears during the climb and it played into the fact that they completely lost the plot with Yates.

I rewatched most of the climbs and it just confirmed the weird feeling I had during the stage. He always reacted immidiately to Carapaz but often in a way that someone would react who has "DON'T OVEREXTEND" in his mind the whole time. Like his kick is really good as we know from sprints but it looked like he tried to close a lot of times deliberately seated or in a measured manner often leaving gaps of a couple of meters at first before he got back. At the top of Finestre was the only time where I thought he actually really pushed the pace for a moment like someone realising "Oh, I've actually got something left and the climb is over". But maybe that's just his style and I'm overanalyzing but I feel on Santa Barbara on Tuesday (the penultimate climb) he looked worse.

 

[Rou]

If I was del Toro this day would haunt me for the rest of my career. Because he will be thinking: '' Why did I give up? ''. I can't even congratulate Yates because this was the most dishonorable riding I have seen from the leader of a race.
I don't know the reason. Is it fear, lack of confidence or just lack of a winner's mentality? Because those qualities are what separates a champion from a helper.
It is one thing to be on the limit on Finestre. But giving up like this on the descent and sprinting at the finish line was just petty.

 

[Blanco]

Very big talent, but what a heartless ride today. Pity...

 

[Tim Cahill]

Still one stage to be fair, three week race, deploying the highly risky 'giving up without a fight' strategy didn't work today but there's always tomorrow.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Still one stage to be fair, three week race, deploying the highly risky 'giving up without a fight' strategy didn't work today but there's always tomorrow.

I could see him making meme Pogi attacks tomorrow. Simon should get some of Vingegaard's super glue delivered overnight to stay safe.

 

[CyclistAbi]

First the mob was like Pogi is working for him on the next Tour edition , now on how he totally blew it. He is a kid that mostly got lucky at this Giro edition, regarding the time buffer, while most of the other GC favourites having some issues with crashes and injuries. On top of that he got to show his punchy side, that was stellar, and the hype went to the roof.

Giro runner up plus some notable performances, still a good result.

 

[Lorzenz08]

People underestimate too much legendary climbs. Never make a judgment on anyone GT capacity before watching them tackle Finnestre, Galibier, Loze, PdB, Angliru ...

 

[CyclistAbi]

Never make a judgment on anyone GT capacity before ...

Before a rider is around 25 year old or up.

 

[Skalman]

Wheelsucking extraordinaire for sure. But it came back to bite him. He had an excellent moment to bridge over to Yates when Carapaz has dragged them within 15-20 meters at one point. Carapaz had nothing left but Del Toro didnt move. If it was down to not have the legs to do it than I understand it, but if it was down to not move one inch from Carapaz and that was the tactic then its quite a big blunder.

 

[Skalman]

No shame him being unable to follow Yates. Amazing performance for a rider with unknown grand tour ability prior to this Giro. Even today the benchmark Carapaz was unable to drop him on Finestre after 11 days wearing pink. This points to him being a massive grand tour contender for the future.

No, no shame at all, it is shameful to give up like he did on atop/descent on Finestre in Pink though, I mean come on, 21 years old or not. That is shameful.

 

[Pippo_San]

Guys he was spent. Told that himself. He was in the red no question about it.
So I guess we have the answer. He's an excellent GT racer, but he's got to improve (and by quite a margin) on the big steep stuff.
He's young he'll certainly develop.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Carapaz point black said he wouldn't ride because Del Toro wouldn't close the last 20 sec. to Yates, but they got that close to Yates due to a Carapaz attack which Del Toro had to respond to. Who knows if Del Toro even could have closed the last bit? If he did and Carapaz could have mustered another acceleration after sitting on a bit and Yates who was the only one not blown up by that point went with him and distanced Del Toro it would have been game over. So I don't fault him for that. At the top of Finestre when Carapaz refused to work with Del Toro that left him two options 1. chase a Wout powered Yates with very little chance of gaining much back because ....Wout and with Carapaz waiting to mug him on the final climb and take away second. 2. do what he did and get his best ever result in a GT. The sprint at the end I don't get either other than maybe an eff u to Carapaz who probably would have done the same back if he could have anymore. I'm guessing they will not be on each other's Christmas Card list this December.

 

[houtdffan]

All he had to do is ride his bike like Remco on Sierra Nevada and he wins the giro

who cares if Carapaz gaps him in the final 2km. He never would have taken enough time to win

 

[Rackham]

The one thing that looks bad for Del Toro here (beyond everything we saw happen or the statements made after the stage) is we didn't see the pink jersey wearer visibly go all-in and sweat to his last watt in defense of the lead. Maybe he believed he'd blow up if he tried to bridge over to Yates when they got close or if he pulled hard on the climb at some point but that's the thing: he actually really needed to go there and actually blow himself up. That's the expectation.

He had a 2:27 buffer back to Derek Gee. So the math was simple: all in. I don't get why and how someone could actually think second in the Giro is cool enough to just sit back and not go full gas when the only real risk is what? Finishing 3rd? When you don't win a Giro, then 2nd or 3rd makes very little difference.

The way it happened Del Toro didn't even find out his limits. Not really. He just capitulated. At no point once Yates had taken virtual leadership should Carapaz be in front of Del Toro on Finestre unless they're working well together and he's feeling generous. That was Del Toro's job at that point and he just sat there.

 

[AlfaLum]

Still very disappointed with yesterdays anti-climax. I really like del Toro, and my admiration for his racing style grew and grew these last weeks, but yesterday that was all thrown away.

By now i guess the big problem is that while going through the possible scenario’s UAE really planned for mano a mano battles the entire giro and never taking into account any other contenders.

- Stage 9 they limited Yates and Carapaz time on Del Toro loss by fully believing in the Ayuso/Roglic battle. I guess that is still understandable, but it provides a lesson.

- Stage 15 they saved Simon Yates his Giro by pulling back the group with Carapaz and Del Toro in front. At the time I didnt agree with that tactic, but some people understood it so ok. Still a lesson should have been learned with Yates still very much in contention and sitting second after stage 18.

- Yesterday they must have planned solely for a mano a mano between Carapaz and Toro yet again. It is the only explanation for allowing wout van Aert in the break as a satellite rider. It also shows in the way they allowed Yates to make such a big gap.

After Carapaz had spend so much energy attacking Del Toro, UAE should have told Isaac to close the gap when they were about 10 meters behind. Then when they didnt they should have told del Toro to work for it when the margin grew back to around 40 seconds. Then when they didnt they should have told him to at least put up a fight between the top of Finestre until the finish.

Now this reflects very badly upon a 21-year old rider, whose racing style yesterday was not fit for a real champion.

-

 

[ice&fire]

Nature's laws are inescapable: between losing to Carapaz or losing to Yates he chose the path of minimum action.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

Nature's laws are inescapable: between losing to Carapaz or losing to Yates he chose the path of minimum action.

LOL. I'll use the name Del Toro-Jacobi equations from now on

 

[Brullnux]

The party line is that he didn't have the legs on Finestre, which I think is true.

However, the lack of effort was disappointing and silly. It also may be the case that UAE are sticking to that line to say it wasn't their fault, but they do seem totally not fussed about losing the Giro.