Isn't it Time For a New Script?

Day-in and day-out I hear the same canned responses to the investigations surrounding the Landis allegations that have been used for years and years to decry each and every doping-related accusation in pro cycling.

Be it riders, DS's, bloggers or casual fans on internet forums, it's the same story (or SSDD in the par-Lance). Typically, the responses are laced with disdain for the investigators and filled with patronizing wisecracks about the general ineptitide (some of it warranted) of those carrying out the investigation.

Is it time for a new script?

I mean I'm no expert in the matter, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the usual (and usually successful) attempts to discredit the investigatory efforts of your typical ADA, National Federation, the UCI or WADA simply don't apply to the US Federal Government, the French Government or INTERPOL.

The typical ploy to portray those investigating the prototypical doping allegation as modern day Keystone Cops seems a bit disingenuous, if not downright dangerous. While you can bait Pierre Bordry into a petulant shouting match, these guys spend their days chasing down real bad guys committing real crimes. They don't talk too much, don't release press statements outlining what they are doing and plan to do, and they don't take "no" for an answer.

"That was the past, let's move on", "I've never tested positive", and "We like our credibility" aren't likely to get them to say "Gee, guess we were wrong. Sorry to bother you." Does anyone honestly think INTERPOL would be satisfied with "bull****" as a response to any of their questions, should they ask Paddy McQuaid one or two?

And the fans on forums like this who continue to say "This will all just blow over", or "Landis is just a bitter liar" seem to suffer from the same disingenuous mindset. Obviously it isn't "blowing over" or won't anytime soon as these guys don't rush anything. Plus, SOMEBODY, regardless of whether they "believe" Landis, feels his allegations warrant further review and those sombodies carry real weight and can apply real heat and lots of it.

Do I know what is being investigated? No I don't. Do I have any idea what the outcome will be? Nope, don't know that either. Do I think someone who is truly innocent has a right to fight for his good name? Of course. I also know that the investigations being carried out by the various Federal and international government and law inforcement agencies deserve (and need) to be treated in a slightly less cavalier manner. Making fun of, making light of, or baiting these guys just ****es them off.

Am I the only one left scratching his head over the brazenly cavalier attitude displayed by so many in regard to this investigation?

Flame away...
 
May 26, 2010
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MacRoadie said:
Am I the only left scratching his head over the brazenly cavalier attitude displayed by so many in regard to this investigation?

Flame away...

i imagine most of the fanboys on here are cheats in some small unmeaningful way in their lives and think that LA 'had to do what a man had to do' and that is how they justify it....he also represents something that most people who follow sport would love to believe in, the small guy (no TdFs) coming back from being down or near death and winning and reaching the top. LA has been selling this for the last 11years, and no matter what is presented to the fanboys they refuse to have this 'story' shattered as it is the ultimate and they believe(ed) it for so long that no one is gonna take it away from them without them kicking, screaming and crying (mostly on here i may add).....

i also believe that some of the fanboys are plain and simple trolls who get a kick defending idiots like LA and hope for the foaming of the mouth from forums looking to see him finally get done for doping....

but yep the same lines being thrown out from LA/Hog are starting make them look guilty...you can only call a guy bitter for so long, especially when new revelations are dripping out and a real sad sorry state of affairs is starting to crack the facade big time.....selling bikes to buy drugs is pretty low in my opinion and depriving riders of their bike and making them ride last years is a joke.....history will show that USPS/Discovery was like hollywood, all glitzy on the outside but a rat infested, drug riddled old ***** on the inside
 
Apr 7, 2010
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who cares, so much crap is talked about who did what and how he cheated when you yourself doesn't now crap about anything except what you read or hear. That's what's wrong with all society. We judge before we know the real truth and only god will know that. If all sports was tested as well as cyclist are tested thier wouldn't be any sports.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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fabramowski said:
who cares, so much crap is talked about who did what and how he cheated when you yourself doesn't now crap about anything except what you read or hear. That's what's wrong with all society. We judge before we know the real truth and only god will know that. If all sports was tested as well as cyclist are tested thier wouldn't be any sports.

Only God....and anyone with the ability to read

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden
 
May 25, 2010
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Wheels Go Round and Round said:
we all know too well many people have been falsely accused of something only to be proven innocent later.

I agree. Plenty of people are calling Floyd a liar currently and I'm certain he will proven to be innocent of that.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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MacRoadie said:
Day-in and day-out I hear the same canned responses to the investigations surrounding the Landis allegations that have been used for years and years to decry each and every doping-related accusation in pro cycling.

Be it riders, DS's, bloggers or casual fans on internet forums, it's the same story (or SSDD in the par-Lance). Typically, the responses are laced with disdain for the investigators and filled with patronizing wisecracks about the general ineptitide (some of it warranted) of those carrying out the investigation.

Is it time for a new script?

I mean I'm no expert in the matter, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the usual (and usually successful) attempts to discredit the investigatory efforts of your typical ADA, National Federation, the UCI or WADA simply don't apply to the US Federal Government, the French Government or INTERPOL.

The typical ploy to portray those investigating the prototypical doping allegation as modern day Keystone Cops seems a bit disingenuous, if not downright dangerous. While you can bait Pierre Bordry into a petulant shouting match, these guys spend their days chasing down real bad guys committing real crimes. They don't talk too much, don't release press statements outlining what they are doing and plan to do, and they don't take "no" for an answer.

"That was the past, let's move on", "I've never tested positive", and "We like our credibility" aren't likely to get them to say "Gee, guess we were wrong. Sorry to bother you." Does anyone honestly think INTERPOL would be satisfied with "bull****" as a response to any of their questions, should they ask Paddy McQuaid one or two?

And the fans on forums like this who continue to say "This will all just blow over", or "Landis is just a bitter liar" seem to suffer from the same disingenuous mindset. Obviously it isn't "blowing over" or won't anytime soon as these guys don't rush anything. Plus, SOMEBODY, regardless of whether they "believe" Landis, feels his allegations warrant further review and those sombodies carry real weight and can apply real heat and lots of it.

Do I know what is being investigated? No I don't. Do I have any idea what the outcome will be? Nope, don't know that either. Do I think someone who is truly innocent has a right to fight for his good name? Of course. I also know that the investigations being carried out by the various Federal and international government and law inforcement agencies deserve (and need) to be treated in a slightly less cavalier manner. Making fun of, making light of, or baiting these guys just ****es them off.

Am I the only left scratching his head over the brazenly cavalier attitude displayed by so many in regard to this investigation?

Flame away...

Why do you care what fanboys say or think? What matters is what ultimately comes out of the investigation. Don't waste your brain cells trying to figure people out - sit back and enjoy the ride.
 
goober said:
Why do you care what fanboys say or think? What matters is what ultimately comes out of the investigation. Don't waste your brain cells trying to figure people out - sit back and enjoy the ride.

Some might call it wasting brain cells, others might prefer exercising the brain, maybe you should try it sometime.:p
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Wheels Go Round and Round said:
we all know too well many people have been falsely accused of something only to be proven innocent later.

Yep. Just look at OJ.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It is too bad the Feds will not have the element of surprise.

Assume for a moment the Ladis allegations are proven true... LA and Hog will have had a lot of time to hide assets, fudge documents (if there are any), cover their tracks and negotiate plea deals.

At this point I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if this investigation does anything more than tarnish LA's tour record and name. I just don't see anyone going to prison for this unless those involved get real stupid with lies told under oath.

About the most we can hope for is a complete re-do of the UCI. That will be a victory in and of itself.
 
Scott SoCal said:
It is too bad the Feds will not have the element of surprise.

Assume for a moment the Ladis allegations are proven true... LA and Hog will have had a lot of time to hide assets, fudge documents (if there are any), cover their tracks and negotiate plea deals.

At this point I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if this investigation does anything more than tarnish LA's tour record and name. I just don't see anyone going to prison for this unless those involved get real stupid with lies told under oath.

About the most we can hope for is a complete re-do of the UCI. That will be a victory in and of itself.

I see it this way. There's a big storm brewing over the horizen. Now either it will materialize and come thrashing down on those under investigation and the corrupt system, or else the tempest mysteriously disipates in the last climatic moment and nothing comes of this. However, it must be said, if the latter were to be the final outcome then one must infer that LA is really Faust and JB Mephistopheles. :eek:
 
Apr 28, 2009
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Interesting questions from the OP. I think the reason that the official script hasn't changed (yet) is because it's worked in the past, and it's worked perfectly. And it's still somewhat working as sponsors are still filling LA's (and I assume indirectly Bruyneel's) pockets. And, after years of getting away with it, I don't think they believe that can be caught or even maybe, just like Landis, they don't believe that they did anything wrong. They are probably quite confident that they are safe, that there is no papertrail.

It will be interesting to see if the script will change as more and more of the mainstream media write more stories pretty much implying that he must have doped, and maybe follow up more on the fraud aspect.

The script from the fans however has changed as was noted by someone here. It went from clean/most tested athlete to everyone was doing it. Will it morph to anything else?
 
One thing that has been conclusively proven in America is that the big lie works. Dubya said it best with, "You can't fool all the people all the time. You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." If something is said loud enough, often enough, and sincerely enough then there will always be a portion of the public that is too stupid to figure out that they are being lied to. They will latch on to the deception with religious-like fervor, and their belief will hold firm no matter what contrary information emerges.

The partisans are so partisan that a lie does not even need to be half grounded in reality. Heck, for the true believers lies made up out of thin air may even work better than half truths; there are fewer inconvenient facts to call the lie into question.

Armstrong and his legions will continue down the same path. They will only change if they are forced to change.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Some might call it wasting brain cells, others might prefer exercising the brain, maybe you should try it sometime.:p

I use my brain cells for something more productive. My brain is already spun from the clinic - needs no more exercise :)
 
Bruyneel and co. aren't gangsters, they don't commit crimes for a living, and that's why I'm confident they won't be too competent at hindering a real investigation without incriminating themselves even more. Let's hope for the best here.
 
thank god some of you guys arent real life investigators :rolleyes:

i wonder if all the investigation running will show no doping,UCI bribery,all the stuff LA is investigated for,what you gonna do? :D ...some of you will proly throw up in yer mouth i can imagine
 
script writing 101

this_is_edie said:
The script from the fans however has changed as was noted by someone here. It went from clean/most tested athlete to everyone was doing it. Will it morph to anything else?

perception of armstrong is morphing at this very moment. you said it yourself, "most tested squeakie clean" won't work anymore. i foresee some real shaming of LA in the next year or two. after that he may confess alot of his sins and be seen differently.

he won't become a barry bonds. in time i expect his image to resemble the truth but to be spun by his PR people into a likeable renegade of sorts. not the nice guy in the PG-13 movie who you're really hoping gets the girl but instead a tarnished hero in an R rated western who isn't afraid to use some foul language. he, thru sally jenkins;), will say he returned from cancer with nothing to lose. everyone else was doing it, and with the new realization that life is short why not dope? it worked and he continued to do what he had to do. it started to spiral out of control and he thought of coming clean every single day to unburden his conscience but didn't want to let down all those cancer survivors, right? the comeback will be seen as an attempt to round up the posse for one last rodeo. beats contador in 2010 prologue. roll credits. :cool:

people who blindly idealize him will eat this up.
 
Jul 5, 2010
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fabramowski said:
who cares, so much crap is talked about who did what and how he cheated when you yourself doesn't now crap about anything except what you read or hear. That's what's wrong with all society. We judge before we know the real truth and only god will know that. If all sports was tested as well as cyclist are tested thier wouldn't be any sports.

the facts of who gets tested as presented by the USADA on their website - you can read for yourself - are that cyclists aren't the most tested athletes. that would go to swimmers, track athletes, and a weightlifter... Armstrong wasn't even the most tested US cyclist - LL was... and anyway sprinters, and classics riders get tested the most out of the cyclists not someone who rolls up for a couple of tours every year and wins the odd stage.
 
ColumbusSL said:
the facts of who gets tested as presented by the USADA on their website - you can read for yourself - are that cyclists aren't the most tested athletes. that would go to swimmers, track athletes, and a weightlifter... Armstrong wasn't even the most tested US cyclist - LL was... and anyway sprinters, and classics riders get tested the most out of the cyclists not someone who rolls up for a couple of tours every year and wins the odd stage.

You're wasting your time. If it's not in the pamphlet, it isn't true.