Itzulia Basque Country 2023 (April 3-8)

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Aug 29, 2009
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who did they actually work for all day, by the way? Fraile, or did they see a chance Martinez would take this?

He (although surprisingly) won a sprint last year, and as Gaudu came 3rd in the end... But Ineos also just seems to like to work when Pog & Rog are not around.
 
Feb 20, 2010
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I don't think the finish in and of itself was the problem. It's that the stage before it - and especially the climb immediately preceding it - was nothing like selective enough to allow for this as a finish. We see technical finishes and high speed descents as finishes with fair frequency. It's not like it was a super narrow or badly potholed road or anything, it was perfectly fine. The issue was more that coming straight into that kind of finish off a fast descent with that much of the péloton still intact was going to be trouble. You can get away with that kind of finish off of a more selective stage, indeed I don't see what made this finish worse than, say, the Zumarraga descents after La Antigua. Also perhaps this could have been a fine finish for a small .1 race in the Spanish calendar, where the smaller number of WT and PCT guys drop the likes of Electro Hiper Europa and Java-Kiwi Atlántico riders and you don't have as many riders reaching the final descent together as there would be with the higher quality depth of a WT race péloton - a bit like those 2012 Giro sprints in Denmark which were fine for the Danmark Rundt but too dangerous for the Giro.

Plus that it's the Itzulia, so there are going to be a lot of poor or nervous descenders there to exacerbate the problem too.
 
Mar 13, 2021
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I don't think the finish in and of itself was the problem. It's that the stage before it - and especially the climb immediately preceding it - was nothing like selective enough to allow for this as a finish. We see technical finishes and high speed descents as finishes with fair frequency. It's not like it was a super narrow or badly potholed road or anything, it was perfectly fine. The issue was more that coming straight into that kind of finish off a fast descent with that much of the péloton still intact was going to be trouble. You can get away with that kind of finish off of a more selective stage, indeed I don't see what made this finish worse than, say, the Zumarraga descents after La Antigua. Also perhaps this could have been a fine finish for a small .1 race in the Spanish calendar, where the smaller number of WT and PCT guys drop the likes of Electro Hiper Europa and Java-Kiwi Atlántico riders and you don't have as many riders reaching the final descent together as there would be with the higher quality depth of a WT race péloton - a bit like those 2012 Giro sprints in Denmark which were fine for the Danmark Rundt but too dangerous for the Giro.

Plus that it's the Itzulia, so there are going to be a lot of poor or nervous descenders there to exacerbate the problem too.

I agree with you that one of the main issues was the descent after a stage that wasn’t selected enough. On a stage that was selective enough the descent would have been fine.
The final kilometer would still have been risky, even with a way more selective stage though. Even in a more selective stage I think the finish should be more or less straight.
 
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Aug 29, 2009
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Its descent is reasonably technical: Aranburu made the winning move here, while Fraile held off Pogačar for second in the sprint of the elites behind. This time, the finish isn’t uphill, although there is a little kicker at 2 kilometres to go, from where it’s a false flat downhill all the way to the line. The finish is pretty much as close to the final corner as physically possible.
04_FINAL.jpg.webp
[/SPOILER]

just read an interview with Fraile (he designed the Santurtzi stage), who said it finishes with a bump of 300m at 8% - so it seems like this profile above is not correct. There's a different one in the roadbook:

mOFJbaJ.png
 
Jun 25, 2015
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I agree with you that one of the main issues was the descent after a stage that wasn’t selected enough. On a stage that was selective enough the descent would have been fine.
The final kilometer would still have been risky, even with a way more selective stage though. Even in a more selective stage I think the finish should be more or less straight.
Both the stage 1 and 2 finishes were odd. There wasn't really a "setup" for the final push to the line...and it didn't seem the riders were fully aware of where they needed to be to move up. I know stage design can seem like a simple matter of "find some mountains/cobblestones/muritos" etc. but there's clearly an art to it...
 
Sep 2, 2011
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who did they actually work for all day, by the way? Fraile, or did they see a chance Martinez would take this?

He (although surprisingly) won a sprint last year, and as Gaudu came 3rd in the end... But Ineos also just seems to like to work when Pog & Rog are not around.
I hope they were working for Fraile because thinking Martinez could win after a full gas 5 km descent seems beyond stupid to me.
 
Feb 20, 2012
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well that doesn’t make the finish less ridiculous.
Well the route was announced months ago. I'm not even a pro, but I've known the stage profile for weeks because I have this weird obsession with watching cycling.

If pro riders want to complain about safety but don't even bother looking at profiles until the day before they really need to stop complaining when there's a nervous descent somewhere. Especially when the descent in itself wasn't bad but it was just the lack of selection before the descent, which anyone could've predicted.
 
Apr 30, 2011
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I really think an easier one would be better for this type of stage, but hopefully there'll still be some early attacks.
Yeah, the more typical finish would have been at the parking lot with 400 m to go.
 
Jun 11, 2021
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Does anyone have a detailled profile for the last 20km today? These 3 uncategorized muritos (especially the first 2) look rough and definitely harder than some of the categorized climbs before.
 
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Sep 20, 2017
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Does anyone have a detailled profile for the last 20km today? These 3 uncategorized muritos (especially the first 2) look rough and definitely harder than some of the categorized climbs before.
From my OP, profiles of all four climbs:
From here, they repeat a bit of route in the opposite direction, descending the side of Altzo climbed earlier and back through the valley and onto Goiballara, almost as steep from this side but not as narrow.
AbhJX4T.png


Here, a different the same road is used for the descent. The next two hills are the final ones except for those to the finish, they formed the finale in the 2021 edition of Aiztondo Klasikoa, a Spanish national race. Both Zizurkil Gaina and Aduna are a bit easier than their predecessor but still steep, this is a lovely sequence. There is an intermediate sprint atop the latter of the two hills.
Zh2KZ1h.png


Q8H2UNZ.png


The finishing town, Villabona, is a stone’s throw away from here, and is the next port of call. This would have been a brilliant finale, but the finish is a kilometre further, at the Hika winery. It is located atop a hill, and the road here becomes leg-breaking in the final 200 metres as it reaches 26%. I’m really not sure if it ruins or improves the stage, but even if the former, there will be gaps.
03_FINAL.jpg.webp
 
Mar 4, 2011
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Does anyone have a detailled profile for the last 20km today? These 3 uncategorized muritos (especially the first 2) look rough and definitely harder than some of the categorized climbs before.
They were posted on one of the 1st pages of thread (maybe by Mayomaniac?). All four are roughly .8-1.0 Km at 9-10 %. Serious stuff!
 
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Sep 20, 2017
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Kirby completely ignorant of the fact that they've done the upcoming descent earlier in the stage, in fact I think the broadcast was on by that point.