Ivan Basso: Lance Will be the Strongest

[subzro]

in my mind contador is defending champion. (he is ali to saste's joefrazier)
he is the peoples champion.

Or Lance could be Ali, the champion in hibernation for four years to Contador's George Foreman the young new champion.... and Lance has just been putting everyone through the rope a dope so far!

Either way it's shaping up as a thrilling contest.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I've only been here a couple of hours (literally), but I've already got Bigboat's number. Sadly, there's always one person like him whenever and wherever cycling is discussed. I expect he also buys into all the 9/11 conspiracy theories and believes in the Illuminati.

Back on topic - I really have no idea how the Lance/Contador issue will play out, but am very much looking forward to watching what happens. My personal support for Lance is based not only on his achievements on the road, but also on his high profile fight against the Big C - something which is very close to my heart as I lost my wife to cancer a few years ago.

 

[msjett]

I don't think anyone knows except for those involved.

 

[craig1985]

BTW good to see Lance win a crit the other day.

 

[auscyclefan94]

...and we saw how much help he was to Leipheimer later in the Giro when his form began returning. He was riding his own race, not riding as a domestique.

That's a great point. Leipheimer could have gotten top 3 if he had some more men bringing him back up to Di Luca or to keep him within a close distance. a picture on the last page of the forum says how much they love each other. it was like a picture in 2001 with Armstrong, Pantani and Ullrich all starting a race next to each other looking so awkward and wishing they weren't next to each other.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Ghosts from the past

Unfortunately with riders like armstrong, basso, mancebo, hamilton and landis coming back for different reasons it brings back old controversies and dark memories from the past which is not needed. even if armstrong is clean he is percepted to many people as a symbol of cheating. his image lke basso is not good for cycling to let the 'new generaton' of riders come through.

 

[flyor64]

That's a great point. Leipheimer could have gotten top 3 if he had some more men bringing him back up to Di Luca or to keep him within a close distance. a picture on the last page of the forum says how much they love each other. it was like a picture in 2001 with Armstrong, Pantani and Ullrich all starting a race next to each other looking so awkward and wishing they weren't next to each other.

IMHO Levi cracked that day...he was pedalling squares by the end of the stage...

I don't think Lance had much, if anything, to do with Levi losing his podium spot.

Whether it was political or not, Levi credited Lance with actually helping him save a top 10 GC finish that day...by falling back an pulling him to the finish.

 

[liatjetta]

Could Silence Lotto shock Asanda Team ?

Cadel Evans is trying to get a mountain goat from Melbourne Australia to assist him in the team.
Cadel is a very methodical rider who needs support, just as Lance does with Asanda team.
Cadel must have a sprinter, to blast through the peleton, or he will forever be the bridesmaid.
Lance was out of the Tour for a couple of years, and this in itself, spells Spaniards with a big "S'

 

[tifosa]

I think The Who chestnut summarized the return of Armstrong (and many other global situations) as:

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

"Then I'll get on my knees and pray we won't get fooled again."



Or maybe David Byrne ultimately said it best:

"same as it ever was".

 

[Belokki]

It'll be a lot shorter if one of us lays BigBoat's position out for you, so allow me. He believes that if no one doped, Armstrong would be a nobody. If he, or everyone, dopes, then he is 1st because his only "talent" is the ability to "super-respond" to the drugs. In other words, everyone else might pick up 5-10% from doping, but Lance gets like 50% better.

Where they come up with this stuff, we'll never know. The usual evidence is that Lance wasn't so hot in tours prior to cancer/ferrari. But hey, no one is a tour winner, until they win. The previous part of their career always looks terrible by comparison. Whatever.

Lance was a great atlete even before cancer;
Lance won a world championship in 1993 at the age of 21( thats got to say something) plus numerous one day races and one week stage races (ex DuPont) before cancer! Maybe he could not live out his full potential BECAUSE of cancer! Having golfball sized tumors in you lungs doesn't help you in the mountains or any other aspect of the race! Cancer did slow him down in the pre-tour victory years!
And cheatingcool death did give him a mental boost ( mental doping if you will)

 

[BigBoat]

Bigboat, why if everyone is jacked is would amstrong never have made the top 30? i thought you would subscribe to he is the most talented in a jacked up world. Or is your point that everyone is jacked and he is so talented he could have been as high as 30 without it?

Sorry Karlboss, for the late reply... Not paying attention to my own thread.

Okay I know its wierd to the average observer but let me explain...Not everybody responds the same to drug therapy...Some dont "get much" from hGH for example. Some can see huge recovery gains on 2-4 iu, others need twice the dosage and only see half the benefit.

Some riders will be lucky to be 12% above their natural FTP (all out 1-hour average power) with a 59% crit on EPO. Others will get 30% more FTP power. Its not fair one bit and its very genetic (how well you respond to drugs.)

Have you ever broken your leg or had a major injury? What if you cant take Morphine due to adverse reaction? You may need an alternative opiat like fentanyl or a different medication all together... Everybody responds differently to all kinds of drugs. Some people have addiction problems, others dont. Everyone is different. Some people react better to certain substances than others. I liked opiats a lot, loved it after the 2nd injection. (the first couple are tough to deal with.) LOL

Do you realize Lance Armstrong had a highest ever clean (undoped) V02 max of 81.2? This is the V02 max of a domestique not even in the top 50 of a Tour de France! If you look at pros and their V02 maxes and their FTP powers you can very very quicky see that Lances FTP power per kilo really cannot exceed 5.1 watts per kilo totally clean. I mean thats 30% less than what blood doped freaks like Ullrich and Basso stomp out. Clean Lance would have been miles behind and he might have never even been a top U.S. rider... If all were undoped its sad but I gotta say it doesnt look like Lance has the top natural talent of others (like Contador for example) that can get V02 maxes of 88-94 during the winter off of epo or blood doping. Not to say Lance isnt a good rider, just not the freak he is without Ferrari >>

Ferrari's therapy made a huge diff in Lance...No doubt pre- Dr. Ferrari Lance was not top 30 material. he could have lost a couple of pounds in his early years but he was not this fat lazy a$$ that he tries to portray himself as...Did you know his highest winter V02 max was hit in 1993?!

 

[franciep10]

I'll say this Lance has impressed me with his comeback, I'm 39 and I'm pretty sure that I couldn't get off the couch after three years of drinking beer and eating fried food to go out there and compete with the elite, so kudos to him. But I finished 7th in 1998 when levi won, and I don't think that winning that race before the tour says anything towards his chances of winning the tour.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll say this Lance has impressed me with his comeback, I'm 39 and I'm pretty sure that I couldn't get off the couch after three years of drinking beer and eating fried food to go out there and compete with the elite, so kudos to him. But I finished 7th in 1998 when levi won, and I don't think that winning that race before the tour says anything towards his chances of winning the tour.

Again, the point isn't that he won, it is how he won. I watched him in person, I could see the amount of effort it took, and could see physically how he looks, I could see the intensity in his eyes, and what I saw tells me that he is going to the tour to win. Period. I am not saying he will because all of those things don't matter one bit if you don't have the motor. However, he is not going to the tour to ride for anyone. He won't do it. Contador will have to rely on his own personal resources because quite certainly Mr Armstrong has Levi and Horner riding for him exclusively. If you think I am saying that winning a 90 minute circuit race with 120 feet (steep as hell, but not Ventoux) of climbing per lap means he will win the tour, you misread what I am saying.

 

[franciep10]

Again, the point isn't that he won, it is how he won. I watched him in person, I could see the amount of effort it took, and could see physically how he looks, I could see the intensity in his eyes, and what I saw tells me that he is going to the tour to win. Period. I am not saying he will because all of those things don't matter one bit if you don't have the motor. However, he is not going to the tour to ride for anyone. He won't do it. Contador will have to rely on his own personal resources because quite certainly Mr Armstrong has Levi and Horner riding for him exclusively. If you think I am saying that winning a 90 minute circuit race with 120 feet (steep as hell, but not Ventoux) of climbing per lap means he will win the tour, you misread what I am saying.

Yeah I understand, he wants to win he's going to france to win, but if he falters which i think he will he's gonna support contador, and go for stage wins, and maybe polka dot.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah I understand, he wants to win he's going to france to win, but if he falters which i think he will he's gonna support contador, and go for stage wins, and maybe polka dot.

I guess that is the big "if." It will also be important when the "if" takes place. If it doesn't happen until Ventoux it will be too late for him to help anyone. I think they have a big problem on their hands actually. I can definitely see Mr Armstrong attacking. The biggest problem is that I think Contador can follow anything he does. It may very well fall to the TT's, and in that case.......

 

[slowoldman]

Yeah I understand, he wants to win he's going to france to win, but if he falters which i think he will he's gonna support contador, and go for stage wins, and maybe polka dot.

I agree. He will go to win initially, too much of a competitor (some will read that as too big an ego). He will eventually help Contador when it is obvious he is not a contender for the win (I don't think he would be satisfied with a podium spot). What he will want in return for his help is a stage win on the Ventoux. (regrets for the gift in 2000). Will he get it? Hard to say, not if the GC is close and that is why he will work to get Contador a good lead. He'll try to get in a large break before Ventoux and follow the leaders when/if they catch it. If not he will try to win out of the break. It is a win/win for Armstrong, look like he helped Contador while getting the victory he so desperately desires on the Ventoux.

 

[Bala Verde]

The prologue will establish his position. It's a 15.5K TT with a 4th cat climb, rather technical which suits Contador much more then Armstrong.

 

[Anonymous]

That's a great point. Leipheimer could have gotten top 3 if he had some more men bringing him back up to Di Luca or to keep him within a close distance. a picture on the last page of the forum says how much they love each other. it was like a picture in 2001 with Armstrong, Pantani and Ullrich all starting a race next to each other looking so awkward and wishing they weren't next to each other.

Levi lost his bid on stage 16... the team did everything perfect... lance did his best to drag levi up the climb... levi himself says so.... he just didn't have the legs.. he should be a great asset in the tour.

 

[Anonymous]

My favorite thing yesterday was the fact that he threw a bottle to the crowd that landed right beside me. I was shooting some pictures, and have one of him getting ready to flip it into the crowd. I was on the inside of a fence and everyone else was on the outside. Nobody else but me had a shot at it. I not only have his DNA, but I decided to go for a ride after the race and I used the bottle. After having only taken one sip from the bottle, I can now sustain 500 watts for 30 minutes......maybe I should have washed the top?

 

[euphrades]

The prologue will establish his position. It's a 15.5K TT with a 4th cat climb, rather technical which suits Contador much more then Armstrong.

Actually I disagree; Contador's strengths when it comes to climbing is his ability to accelerate/burst quickly when he attacks. This is a ITT which favors Armstrong as his strength is his ability to sustain the effort for long periods of times which is exactly how this ITT will be ridden.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually I disagree; Contador's strengths when it comes to climbing is his ability to accelerate/burst quickly when he attacks. This is a ITT which favors Armstrong as his strength is his ability to sustain the effort for long periods of times which is exactly how this ITT will be ridden.

I don't think the time difference will be big enough to have any real meaning going outward for Astana.

Astana will know when it's time to go and Contador will be expected to go, and if he can't I imagine Lance being there.

If he can.. there's a lot of strong riders out there.

 

[Anonymous]

My favorite picture from yesterday:

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Actually I disagree; Contador's strengths when it comes to climbing is his ability to accelerate/burst quickly when he attacks. This is a ITT which favors Armstrong as his strength is his ability to sustain the effort for long periods of times which is exactly how this ITT will be ridden.

1. Did you follow Contadors ITT results this year?
2. A 15.5 km TT is a hugely diffrent deal than a 40-50 km TT.

Contador has actually been pretty neatat short ITTs all over his career and good over longer distances. He probably got a bit better overall timetrialing in contrast to the years before.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Armstrong even lost time in the first stage.
Problematically for him, he can't gain time on Contador in the TTT.
Also just assuming he'd made it to be up there with the top guys I still can hardly immagine him not getting beaten by Contador going in the mountains, and getting more than an Evans like advantage on AC in the long ITT.

 

[Anonymous]

One more: I may not like the guy, but he is photogenic.....

 

[Anonymous]

Not that big: