Teams & Riders Jakob Fuglsang discussion thread

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

But its the first year Im on the bandwagon and honestly, Im rooting for Fuglsang. Haven't always been doing that, but he is for real this year. Reminds me very much of Valverde's 2017 season - 2019 is the year Fuglsang can win. Next year, probably no chance. He GOT to take this opportunity simply put. No room for errors.

Also, it would be great if it meant more of my friends would watch the race with me.

'Going with the winner'-mentality?

I like how he is racing this year and when he can win the Tour, it would be weird for me to at least actively root against him. Rooted for him in LBL as well. Guess I recognize it will be very good for cycling in Denmark if Fuglsang wins. The reason I have remained a lot more sceptic than other towards him has been his constant failures in TdF, but most importantly the way the media has spoken about him. This year its really justified tho.

The idea that Jakob has changed his racing approach is more myth than fact, really. It has more to with him being a stronger athlete and consequently succeeds more often in his attacks.

I believe that Jakob has always been a quite agressive rider. Since his breakthrough in the Dauphiné '09, where he attacked left and right against guys like Contador, Evans, Nibali and Valverde. He also achieved some of his biggest results in the earlier part of his career through attacking.

Thinking about it, you are completely right. Its hard to attack when the legs dont allow you to. When you can attack, and when you absolutely need to attack in order to win like Fuglsang, you make races and win races. I completely buy that which effectively means that, yes, its a going with the winner mentality. If Meintjens suddenly decided (or rather, would be able to) attack like this, I would probably also support him if that makes sense. Then again, if he was able to Im still not sure that he would actually do that. :geek:

 

[Simurgh]

Another Dauphine in the bag, and never really looked troubled. Today didn't really reveal anything though. Next up, the Tour!

 

[jmdirt]

Good week JF!

 

[Valv.Piti]

Weird victory I must admit. Didnt really get to see how strong he actually was, but a win is a win. Even if he fails in thie Tour he has had an amazing year

 

[Red Rick]

Main target of the year is a frigging bonus lol.

 

[Gigs_98]

I simply don't get it. When did fuglsang become this sort of top tier rider? He was already improving a lot in the last two years getting some impressive results but this season is just something else. The guy who didn't win a single race for about 5 years is now apparently an elite one week stage racer who retrospectively could also have won the ardennes treble this year if things had only gone slightly differently. If he was 24 I would have explanations for this but he is 34. Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

 

[Red Rick]

I simply don't get it. When did fuglsang become this sort of top tier rider? He was already improving a lot in the last two years getting some impressive results but this season is just something else. The guy who didn't win a single race for about 5 years is now apparently an elite one week stage racer who retrospectively could also have won the ardennes treble this year if things had only gone slightly differently. If he was 24 I would have explanations for this but he is 34. Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

Think he always focused too much on stage races, calling him one of the best in the world at shorter stage races is still a bit of a stretch for me, and I think he was kinda underrated at one day races for a long time.

 

[roundabout]

I simply don't get it. When did fuglsang become this sort of top tier rider? He was already improving a lot in the last two years getting some impressive results but this season is just something else. The guy who didn't win a single race for about 5 years is now apparently an elite one week stage racer who retrospectively could also have won the ardennes treble this year if things had only gone slightly differently. If he was 24 I would have explanations for this but he is 34. Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

Think he always focused too much on stage races, calling him one of the best in the world at shorter stage races is still a bit of a stretch for me, and I think he was kinda underrated at one day races for a long time.

Underrated? Not really, he could get an occasional bottom of the top-10 placing, but nothing more than that (apart from the Olympics).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Fuglsang

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I simply don't get it. When did fuglsang become this sort of top tier rider? He was already improving a lot in the last two years getting some impressive results but this season is just something else. The guy who didn't win a single race for about 5 years is now apparently an elite one week stage racer who retrospectively could also have won the ardennes treble this year if things had only gone slightly differently. If he was 24 I would have explanations for this but he is 34. Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

Fuglsang was always a "luxury domestique".

He spent most his career riding for first the Schlecks, then Nibali.

You have to remember, that both Leopard Trek and Astana (until Astana changed strategy ahead of last season), were run very "italian", which is to say they rode for ONE captain, and nobody else stuck with the GC, they just did their work and sat up.

So, the times Fuglsang has actually gone for the GC, with proper preparation and as the captain from race start, are few and far between.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

I simply don't get it. When did fuglsang become this sort of top tier rider? He was already improving a lot in the last two years getting some impressive results but this season is just something else. The guy who didn't win a single race for about 5 years is now apparently an elite one week stage racer who retrospectively could also have won the ardennes treble this year if things had only gone slightly differently. If he was 24 I would have explanations for this but he is 34. Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

His talent has always been incontrovertible. But the external circumstances always went against him

 

[Squire]

I simply don't get it. When did fuglsang become this sort of top tier rider? He was already improving a lot in the last two years getting some impressive results but this season is just something else. The guy who didn't win a single race for about 5 years is now apparently an elite one week stage racer who retrospectively could also have won the ardennes treble this year if things had only gone slightly differently. If he was 24 I would have explanations for this but he is 34. Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

Think he always focused too much on stage races, calling him one of the best in the world at shorter stage races is still a bit of a stretch for me, and I think he was kinda underrated at one day races for a long time.

Underrated? Not really, he could get an occasional bottom of the top-10 placing, but nothing more than that (apart from the Olympics).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Fuglsang

Forget the placings. He often did early attacks in the finale of several Ardennes races because of lacking a sprint. It never worked out, often due to his companions unwillingness to work with him. Sometimes he looked really strong without getting a result to show for it.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Having watched Astana in both preparation races today, I think they will have a hell of a time selecting the Tour team, everyone seems switched on.

I'd pick:

Fuglsang
Sanchez
Gorka
Lutsenko
Cort
Fraile
Hirt
Kudus

 

[Valv.Piti]

I simply don't get it. When did fuglsang become this sort of top tier rider? He was already improving a lot in the last two years getting some impressive results but this season is just something else. The guy who didn't win a single race for about 5 years is now apparently an elite one week stage racer who retrospectively could also have won the ardennes treble this year if things had only gone slightly differently. If he was 24 I would have explanations for this but he is 34. Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

Fuglsang was always a "luxury domestique".

He spent most his career riding for first the Schlecks, then Nibali.

You have to remember, that both Leopard Trek and Astana (until Astana changed strategy ahead of last season), were run very "italian", which is to say they rode for ONE captain, and nobody else stuck with the GC, they just did their work and sat up.

So, the times Fuglsang has actually gone for the GC, with proper preparation and as the captain from race start, are few and far between.

Untrue.
2013 he was 7nd as lone captain.
2014 he got sick in the Vosges (thats at least what he said) and crashed in the Alps. Otherwise he would obviously have chased a good GC placing since Nibali always was gonna win that race and he had a big headstart. Couldnt do that for various races.
2015 Nibali cracked on the first MTF which made Fuglsang the de facto captain. He faultered in that role the next day and threw the GC on Tourmalet, the second mountain stage, after already losing quite a bit of time on the first MTF while NOT helping Nibali.
2016 he was allowed to race his own race (Giro), but his high climbing talent was nowhere to be found and he didnt really manage to be of any help by Nibali. Simply lacking climbing legs plain and simple.
2017 he was captain along with Aru, lost lots of time on the first MTF, then crashed. Similar to 2014.
2018 he was captain alone, lost 4 or 5 minutes on the first MTF and was not really doing anything in the race.

 

[Alexandre B.]

I simply don't get it. When did fuglsang become this sort of top tier rider? He was already improving a lot in the last two years getting some impressive results but this season is just something else. The guy who didn't win a single race for about 5 years is now apparently an elite one week stage racer who retrospectively could also have won the ardennes treble this year if things had only gone slightly differently. If he was 24 I would have explanations for this but he is 34. Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

He has the palmarès I wish Bardet had.

 

[Squire]

Re:

Having watched Astana in both preparation races today, I think they will have a hell of a time selecting the Tour team, everyone seems switched on.

I'd pick:

Fuglsang
Sanchez
Gorka
Lutsenko
Cort
Fraile
Hirt
Kudus

Surely not after Trentino-Romandie-Giro-Suisse?

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I simply don't get it. When did fuglsang become this sort of top tier rider? He was already improving a lot in the last two years getting some impressive results but this season is just something else. The guy who didn't win a single race for about 5 years is now apparently an elite one week stage racer who retrospectively could also have won the ardennes treble this year if things had only gone slightly differently. If he was 24 I would have explanations for this but he is 34. Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

Fuglsang was always a "luxury domestique".

He spent most his career riding for first the Schlecks, then Nibali.

You have to remember, that both Leopard Trek and Astana (until Astana changed strategy ahead of last season), were run very "italian", which is to say they rode for ONE captain, and nobody else stuck with the GC, they just did their work and sat up.

So, the times Fuglsang has actually gone for the GC, with proper preparation and as the captain from race start, are few and far between.

Untrue.
2013 he was 7nd as lone captain.
2014 he got sick in the Vosges (thats at least what he said) and crashed in the Alps. Otherwise he would obviously have chased a good GC placing since Nibali always was gonna win that race and he had a big headstart. Couldnt do that for various races.
2015 Nibali cracked on the first MTF which made Fuglsang the de facto captain. He faultered in that role the next day and threw the GC on Tourmalet, the second mountain stage, after already losing quite a bit of time on the first MTF while NOT helping Nibali.
2016 he was allowed to race his own race (Giro), but his high climbing talent was nowhere to be found and he didnt really manage to be of any help by Nibali. Simply lacking climbing legs plain and simple.
2017 he was captain along with Aru, lost lots of time on the first MTF, then crashed. Similar to 2014.
2018 he was captain alone, lost 4 or 5 minutes on the first MTF and was not really doing anything in the race.

So, in other words you agree with me, that he has rarely started a GT as the captain, since you can only mention 4 such GTs, in his entire career?

Untrue" indeed

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Having watched Astana in both preparation races today, I think they will have a hell of a time selecting the Tour team, everyone seems switched on.

I'd pick:

Fuglsang
Sanchez
Gorka
Lutsenko
Cort
Fraile
Hirt
Kudus

Surely not after Trentino-Romandie-Giro-Suisse?

Ah, missed that part, just noticed him looking good today

They'll probably bring Houle then.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

Chris Horner
Geraint Thomas
Carlos Sastre

 

[RedheadDane]

So, according to this article (in Danish) with B.T. one of the reasons can be because he removed a insole from his bike shoes. He used to have a his right sole be slightly thicker than the left because his right leg is slightly shorter than his left. However, that caused him to get blocked in his neck and back.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

I simply don't get it. When did fuglsang become this sort of top tier rider? He was already improving a lot in the last two years getting some impressive results but this season is just something else. The guy who didn't win a single race for about 5 years is now apparently an elite one week stage racer who retrospectively could also have won the ardennes treble this year if things had only gone slightly differently. If he was 24 I would have explanations for this but he is 34. Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

Fuglsang was always a "luxury domestique".

He spent most his career riding for first the Schlecks, then Nibali.

You have to remember, that both Leopard Trek and Astana (until Astana changed strategy ahead of last season), were run very "italian", which is to say they rode for ONE captain, and nobody else stuck with the GC, they just did their work and sat up.

So, the times Fuglsang has actually gone for the GC, with proper preparation and as the captain from race start, are few and far between.

Untrue.
2013 he was 7nd as lone captain.
2014 he got sick in the Vosges (thats at least what he said) and crashed in the Alps. Otherwise he would obviously have chased a good GC placing since Nibali always was gonna win that race and he had a big headstart. Couldnt do that for various races.
2015 Nibali cracked on the first MTF which made Fuglsang the de facto captain. He faultered in that role the next day and threw the GC on Tourmalet, the second mountain stage, after already losing quite a bit of time on the first MTF while NOT helping Nibali.
He was ordered to wait for Nibali on the first MTF, which is why he lost a lot of time there. He was actually the 2nd fastest (After Froome) up the first MTF (Pierre Saint Martin) if you measure his time from the moment he was let go off domestique duties. He rode a really good Tour that year, finishing 2nd on Plateau de Beille and missing out on the stage that Bardet won, because he was crashed by a moto bike.
2016 he was allowed to race his own race (Giro), but his high climbing talent was nowhere to be found and he didnt really manage to be of any help by Nibali. Simply lacking climbing legs plain and simple.
He did the giro that year and his motivation was the Olympics.
2017 he was captain along with Aru, lost lots of time on the first MTF, then crashed. Similar to 2014.
Again, this is not true. He lost some time on PbF as you describe but stroke back on Mont du Chat where he rode himself on to the top 5 in GC before a crash forced him to abandon later.
2018 he was captain alone, lost 4 or 5 minutes on the first MTF and was not really doing anything in the race.

Ahh, that lacks nuance, and you know it Valv. I have tried to bold where your descriptions fall short - for the sake of enlightenment.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Tour 2015: I didnt remember he was ordered to wait (briefly) on Nibali. Ok, my bad. But that doesnt chance the fact that he collapsed the next day and threw the GC. Yes, he entered breaks, but thats not what he came for. As I stated, Vino basically delcared him de facto captain after Nibali's collapse the day before.

Giro 2016. I was talking about the Giro, not the Tour, in that paragraph. I obviously knnowthat we cant use that Tour in the same year for anything. In that Giro he was very disappointing considering the realtively high expectations beforehand. And I dont wanna hear the luxury domestique argument in this case - I watched that race very closely.

Tour 2017: Yes, he as good at Chat which I forgot. Thats fair. He still lost quite a bit of time which basically put him out of contention for the win - that was probably still his better showing climbing wise in Tour de France. Shame he crashed so we couldnt assess it furhter.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Broccolidwarf: Read my analysis and please try to understand that its simply untrue that he has been left has as luxury domestique for Nibali in these cases. I dont wanna hear thats the reason he has failed. The reason are that he has lacked high mountain climbing, lost a bunch of time on the first/second mountain stage and crashed. Thats it. I have watched the races. Very, very rarely has Fuglsang done any domestique work for Nibali. Very *** rarely. I watch races, I watch pretty much all hilly/mountanious stages in GTs, and this pushed narrative about being a domestique is UNTRUE.

 

[Escarabajo]

Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

Chris Horner
Geraint Thomas
Carlos Sastre

Sastre?
He was always good. It was just a matter of next man up!

 

[jmdirt]

I simply don't get it. When did fuglsang become this sort of top tier rider? He was already improving a lot in the last two years getting some impressive results but this season is just something else. The guy who didn't win a single race for about 5 years is now apparently an elite one week stage racer who retrospectively could also have won the ardennes treble this year if things had only gone slightly differently. If he was 24 I would have explanations for this but he is 34. Can anyone show me even one other example of a rider improving like that at this age?

Fuglsang was always a "luxury domestique".

He spent most his career riding for first the Schlecks, then Nibali.

You have to remember, that both Leopard Trek and Astana (until Astana changed strategy ahead of last season), were run very "italian", which is to say they rode for ONE captain, and nobody else stuck with the GC, they just did their work and sat up.

So, the times Fuglsang has actually gone for the GC, with proper preparation and as the captain from race start, are few and far between.

Untrue.
2013 he was 7nd as lone captain.
2014 he got sick in the Vosges (thats at least what he said) and crashed in the Alps. Otherwise he would obviously have chased a good GC placing since Nibali always was gonna win that race and he had a big headstart. Couldnt do that for various races.
2015 Nibali cracked on the first MTF which made Fuglsang the de facto captain. He faultered in that role the next day and threw the GC on Tourmalet, the second mountain stage, after already losing quite a bit of time on the first MTF while NOT helping Nibali.
2016 he was allowed to race his own race (Giro), but his high climbing talent was nowhere to be found and he didnt really manage to be of any help by Nibali. Simply lacking climbing legs plain and simple.
2017 he was captain along with Aru, lost lots of time on the first MTF, then crashed. Similar to 2014.
2018 he was captain alone, lost 4 or 5 minutes on the first MTF and was not really doing anything in the race.

I won't challenge your Google finger, but the post that started this discussion is comparing a 24 year old to a 35 year old JF, while you are comparing a 30 year old to a 35 year old JF. What was JF doing between 24 and 30?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Havent googled a single result. It just doesnt make sense to talk about the 2008-2012 Fuglsang since he wasnt at the level at all that is now. My point was that since 2013, where he has been a GT rider, he hasn't been forced to do luxury domoestique job apart from a few stages.