Teams & Riders Jakob Fuglsang discussion thread

[tobydawq]

He looked a little bit in pain near the end today but managed to stay with his team who seemed to ride a good time.

So encouraging signs today. Now he has to survive tomorrow and then a couple of "easy" stages.

 

[Escarabajo]

Katusha second. Good ride.

 

[Escarabajo]

Headwind could be picking up on the second half as time progresses.

 

[RedheadDane]

What's that got to do with Fuglsang?

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

What's that got to do with Fuglsang?

Lol. Ooops.
Sorry guys!!!! wrong thread.

 

[JosephK]

Fuglsang and Astana hung in there very well today at the TTT. Yesterday, I thought his goose was cooked, and it still may be, but I'm hoping he can be in the fight when the stages reach the mountains.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

He might lose more than normally on LPDBF but 3rd week is still far away. I wonder though, knee injuries are usually no good.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

He might lose more than normally on LPDBF but 3rd week is still far away. I wonder though, knee injuries are usually no good.

I honestly thoughts PdBF was one of the stages where he'd gain time on everybody else, but now I am just thankful that it is the only MTF in the first part of the race.

I agree with the other posts that Astana were probably surfing around in the middle of the pack a bit too much yesterday. Hopefully they will have learnt the lesson. If anything Jakob should just stay near LLS who can single handedly keep him at the front

 

[tobydawq]

Why is there always this absolutely insane focus on Fuglsang's position in the peloton each Tour?

No rider is at the front at all times. Try tracking the other contenders and you would see that they are not always with their teammates and not always at the front, either.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

He might lose more than normally on LPDBF but 3rd week is still far away. I wonder though, knee injuries are usually no good.

Nothing is broken, it’s just a muscle having had a punch. Those usually heal up in days.

The worry will be him overcompensating with the other leg, but he said he was very conscious of that.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

Why is there always this absolutely insane focus on Fuglsang's position in the peloton each Tour?

No rider is at the front at all times. Try tracking the other contenders and you would see that they are not always with their teammates and not always at the front, either.

It’s not “insane” to expect a tour captain, who is the teams only priority at this race, to not be sitting on his own, 15 k from the line, on the first stage.

 

[tobydawq]

It's insane to talk SO much about it.

And now I apparently do it as well.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

It's insane to talk SO much about it.

And now I apparently do it as well.

The talk is constant because the problem is constant.

 

[tobydawq]

Let's all spend some time to revere the astonishingly brilliant positions they manage to occupy in front of Team Ineos right now.

What an amazing piece of strategic astuteness and fabulous teamwork.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

Let's all spend some time to revere the astonishingly brilliant positions they manage to occupy in front of Team Ineos right now.

What an amazing piece of strategic astuteness and fabulous teamwork.

Wanna bet the way they ride today, is because of them not being where they were supposed to, on stage 1?

 

[Leinster]

Who remembers Chris Froome’s crash last year when trying to move up on the outside of the peloton in the last 10km, with 1 teammate in front, and ended up with him losing 50s and the leadership of the team?

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

Who remembers Chris Froome’s crash last year when trying to move up on the outside of the peloton in the last 10km, with 1 teammate in front, and ended up with him losing 50s and the leadership of the team?

You do

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

Let's all spend some time to revere the astonishingly brilliant positions they manage to occupy in front of Team Ineos right now.

What an amazing piece of strategic astuteness and fabulous teamwork.

Without knowing you, Toby, it sounds as though you are not a keen cyclist yourself with hands-on experience from riding in a field. What are your reasons for thinking that positioning is not an important issue in the beginning of the most stressful race on the calendar? (Sorry if my question sounds rhetorical)

 

[JosephK]

Nice to see Fuglsang right there with the main GC guys at the end of stage 3. He dropped a few seconds (5) to Pinot and Bernal; otherwise, no time lost.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Nice to see Fuglsang right there with the main GC guys at the end of stage 3. He dropped a few seconds (5) to Pinot and Bernal; otherwise, no time lost.

He sat in Thomas' wheel, who then let a gap open up to Bernal.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Let's all spend some time to revere the astonishingly brilliant positions they manage to occupy in front of Team Ineos right now.

What an amazing piece of strategic astuteness and fabulous teamwork.

Without knowing you, Toby, it sounds as though you are not a keen cyclist yourself with hands-on experience from riding in a field. What are your reasons for thinking that positioning is not an important issue in the beginning of the most stressful race on the calendar? (Sorry if my question sounds rhetorical)

I'm not but I know quite a bit about aerodynamics and energy expenditure, and with that in mind, sitting single-file a whole team just behind a single leading rider is physically more taxing than floating around mid-pack which should certainly be the preferable thing to do in the first halves of flat stages.

But that is not really my point. My point is that I don't see the necessity of discussing his field position so much. Crashes can occur no matter where you are, and I couldn't really give a damn where he positions himself in the peloton unless there are impending cross-wind stretches. Let me try to explain why, even with my lacking hands-on experience:

If you are at the absolute front, you don't crash but also spend a lot of energy - not preferable.

If you are just behind the front, you have good vision, but it's where everybody wants to be which means the fight for position is higher, which means the risk of crashes is increased.

If you are half-way down the peloton, nobody can see a damn in front of themselves, which means they're susceptible to crashes from holes in the road, un-checked road furniture etc.

If you're at the bottom half of the peloton, there might be less stress, but you can still not see much. You may have a better chance of reacting to crashes further in front of you but your risk of getting trapped behind a crash that takes up the entire width of the road is increased which makes this non-stressful, non-energy-taxing field position the least preferable one to occupy for a GC rider.

 

[tobydawq]

With regards to our national hero and usual playmate of Alaphilippe's; Fuglsang said today that he considered following Alaphilippe's attack but didn't want to go too deep too early with the rest of the race in mind.

If he really could have done that, I think it was a mistake not to do. Because then they could maybe have opened quite a gap. Of course, Ineos would have been more keen to chase but it would have taken a little while to get organised.

In any case, today seemed really promising considering his knee, and the Fuglsang bandwagon can get into speed once more.

I don't think I have ever looked forward to a mountain stage in the Tour with this particular feeling of nervous excitement as I currently do to stage 6.

 

[JosephK]

Re:

With regards to our national hero and usual playmate of Alaphilippe's; Fuglsang said today that he considered following Alaphilippe's attack but didn't want to go too deep too early with the rest of the race in mind.

If he really could have done that, I think it was a mistake not to do. Because then they could maybe have opened quite a gap. Of course, Ineos would have been more keen to chase but it would have taken a little while to get organised.

In any case, today seemed really promising considering his knee, and the Fuglsang bandwagon can get into speed once more.

I don't think I have ever looked forward to a mountain stage in the Tour with this particular feeling of nervous excitement as I currently do to stage 6.

I'm really encouraged by this. I was very much of the gloom-and-doom mindset after Jakob's crash on stage 1. Then, with the TTT stage, a glimmer of hope (at least, averting catastrophe). And today he looked quite competitive.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

Let's all spend some time to revere the astonishingly brilliant positions they manage to occupy in front of Team Ineos right now.

What an amazing piece of strategic astuteness and fabulous teamwork.

Without knowing you, Toby, it sounds as though you are not a keen cyclist yourself with hands-on experience from riding in a field. What are your reasons for thinking that positioning is not an important issue in the beginning of the most stressful race on the calendar? (Sorry if my question sounds rhetorical)

I'm not but I know quite a bit about aerodynamics and energy expenditure, and with that in mind, sitting single-file a whole team just behind a single leading rider is physically more taxing than floating around mid-pack which should certainly be the preferable thing to do in the first halves of flat stages.

But that is not really my point. My point is that I don't see the necessity of discussing his field position so much. Crashes can occur no matter where you are, and I couldn't really give a damn where he positions himself in the peloton unless there are impending cross-wind stretches. Let me try to explain why, even with my lacking hands-on experience:

If you are at the absolute front, you don't crash but also spend a lot of energy - not preferable.

If you are just behind the front, you have good vision, but it's where everybody wants to be which means the fight for position is higher, which means the risk of crashes is increased.

If you are half-way down the peloton, nobody can see a damn in front of themselves, which means they're susceptible to crashes from holes in the road, un-checked road furniture etc.

If you're at the bottom half of the peloton, there might be less stress, but you can still not see much. You may have a better chance of reacting to crashes further in front of you but your risk of getting trapped behind a crash that takes up the entire width of the road is increased which makes this non-stressful, non-energy-taxing field position the least preferable one to occupy for a GC rider.

Fair point, but it seems like there are teams who are able to ride at or near the front everyday (Ineos/Sky the most obvious candidate) and be at the front when it matters. I do not expect Astana to be as visible in the front as Ineos but it's a minimum to expect that Astana as a team should have been near the front with 18km to go on stage 1 because at that point it actually was preferable to spend a little more energy for 25 minutes than risk a crash in the middle of the field.

But I think they are a lot better this year. Last year was awful. No support for Jakob in the opening stages including the cobbles stage.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Let's all spend some time to revere the astonishingly brilliant positions they manage to occupy in front of Team Ineos right now.

What an amazing piece of strategic astuteness and fabulous teamwork.

Without knowing you, Toby, it sounds as though you are not a keen cyclist yourself with hands-on experience from riding in a field. What are your reasons for thinking that positioning is not an important issue in the beginning of the most stressful race on the calendar? (Sorry if my question sounds rhetorical)

I'm not but I know quite a bit about aerodynamics and energy expenditure, and with that in mind, sitting single-file a whole team just behind a single leading rider is physically more taxing than floating around mid-pack which should certainly be the preferable thing to do in the first halves of flat stages.

But that is not really my point. My point is that I don't see the necessity of discussing his field position so much. Crashes can occur no matter where you are, and I couldn't really give a damn where he positions himself in the peloton unless there are impending cross-wind stretches. Let me try to explain why, even with my lacking hands-on experience:

If you are at the absolute front, you don't crash but also spend a lot of energy - not preferable.

If you are just behind the front, you have good vision, but it's where everybody wants to be which means the fight for position is higher, which means the risk of crashes is increased.

If you are half-way down the peloton, nobody can see a damn in front of themselves, which means they're susceptible to crashes from holes in the road, un-checked road furniture etc.

If you're at the bottom half of the peloton, there might be less stress, but you can still not see much. You may have a better chance of reacting to crashes further in front of you but your risk of getting trapped behind a crash that takes up the entire width of the road is increased which makes this non-stressful, non-energy-taxing field position the least preferable one to occupy for a GC rider.

Your premise that you spend less energy in the middle of the bunch is wrong, to an extent.

It depends on a lot of things.

Is it windy and where is the wind from.
What is the speed.
How technical is the road.
How narrow is the road.
How close are you to expected race deciding route parts.
How fresh is the peloton (fresh is worse).

You have to remember, that while you do not pedal as hard in the middle of the bunch (you are right on the aerodynamics), you experience a different kind of fatigue instead, because you are constantly tense and on edge, constantly ready to react, at the blink of an eye, to a movement or tempo change in the bunch...... especially if you are a GC contender.

The middle of the bunch is a nightmare for a GC contender, when the tempo is elevated beyond normal “controlling the break speed”.

So while you save your legs, every other muscle aches and you get mentally fatigued.

The only place you can truly save energy, is at the back of the bunch..... but that has a lot of tactical disadvantages.