Jan Ullrich still has it!!!

[DFA123]

Re:

Damn, and people call Armstrong a sociopath. Seems like Ullrich is much, much worse. Will they be taking away his Tour victories as well or was that only for Armstrong?

Maybe he is a sociopath as well, but I wouldn't be surprised if all the years of lying, hiding stuff and trying to juggle his career with his conscience has contributed significantly to his alcoholism, drug abuse and subsequent breakdown. And perhaps its precisely because he isn't a sociopath that he couldn't handle the cycling business as clinically (no pun intended) and dispassionately as someone like Armstrong. Cycling in the 90s/early 00s has left a pretty unpleasant legacy in this regard.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Damn, and people call Armstrong a sociopath. Seems like Ullrich is much, much worse. Will they be taking away his Tour victories as well or was that only for Armstrong?

"Sociopath" doesn't mean what you think it means and Armstrong's victories weren't taken away for the reason you think they were and basically what the hell are you saying Pisti.

Well, they weren't taken away for his drug abuse looking at the palmares of Ullrich or Bjarne Riis.

And strangling prostitutes is far worse than anything Armstrong ever did lol.

 

[hrotha]

"Sociopath" doesn't mean "bad person". As for the rest, I suggest you actually read the reasoned decision for Armstrong's case.

 

[afpm90]

It seems to me Ullrich has serious psychological problems and needs professional help. But he also has to respond to the authorities for this strangling.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

"Sociopath" doesn't mean "bad person". As for the rest, I suggest you actually read the reasoned decision for Armstrong's case.

When people say Armstrong is a sociopath they mean it as a bad thing. You can't have a psychological evaluation of someone you never met, so these accusations hold little merit.

In other words, I'm not talking about the psychological definition of sociopath, but what the common people think when they hear that word.

If Armstrong did something like this a lot of people would call him a psychopath or sociopath.

Ps: I'm well aware that terms like psychopath or sociopath don't mean "bad" person, a lot of successful people show signs of psychopathy. My favorite piece of literature is the Melian Dialogue by Thucydides, and I have more sympathy for the point of view of the Athenians than I do the Melians.

 

[Zama_Olyas]

Re: Re:

"Sociopath" doesn't mean "bad person". As for the rest, I suggest you actually read the reasoned decision for Armstrong's case.

When people say Armstrong is a sociopath they mean it as a bad thing. You can't have a psychological evaluation of someone you never met, so these accusations hold little merit.

In other words, I'm not talking about the psychological definition of sociopath, but what the common people think when they hear that word.

If Armstrong did something like this a lot of people would call him a psychopath or sociopath.

Ps: I'm well aware that terms like psychopath or sociopath don't mean "bad" person, a lot of successful people show signs of psychopathy. My favorite piece of literature is the Melian Dialogue by Thucydides, and I have more sympathy for the point of view of the Athenians than I do the Melians.

Which is not surprising at all

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

This must be the first mentioning ever of Thucydides in a discussion on Jan Ullrich.

 

[Zama_Olyas]

Yea, very surprising but it is el pistolero after all ...so understandable, i suppose.

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

There is no correlation between depression and violent behavior. He needs incarceration, not therapy.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.

He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.

Call me pessimistic or cynical, but people rarely change.

There are a couple of crimes in this world where I don't think second chances should be given, (attempted) murder is one of them. Strangling someone untill they black out is just that imo.

 

[markene2]

Re: Re:

Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.

Call me pessimistic, but people rarely change.

There are a couple of crimes in this world where I don't think second chances should be given, (attempted) murder is one of them.

This is nowhere close to attempted murder, she alerted the staff herself. The guy is obviously in a drug induced psychosis, smoking 4 cigs at once, going for the world record in smoking cigaretes, he tells his neighbours about his drug use and that cocaine is healthier for him than amphetamines. None of this is normal behaviour for him, he needs to be admitted to the mental ward and later to rehab.

 

[shalgo]

Re: Re:

Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.

Call me pessimistic or cynical, but people rarely change.

There are a couple of crimes in this world where I don't think second chances should be given, (attempted) murder is one of them. Strangling someone untill they black out is just that imo.

While we are bringing classical references into our discussion, consider Protagoras's remark in the Plato dialogue of the same name:

"If you will think, Socrates, of the nature of punishment, you will see at once that in the opinion of mankind virtue may be acquired; no one punishes the evil-doer under the notion, or for the reason, that he has done wrong, only the unreasonable fury of a beast acts in that manner. But he who desires to inflict rational punishment does not retaliate for a past wrong which cannot be undone; he has regard to the future, and is desirous that the man who is punished, and he who sees him punished, may be deterred from doing wrong again. He punishes for the sake of prevention, thereby clearly implying that virtue is capable of being taught."

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.

He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.

Rehabilitation is a thing.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Re: Re:

I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.

He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.

I never said he shouldn't be punished but after what ever the police investigation brings this ordeal to he neds a therapist because this is something that has been brewing in him for a long time and finally he lost it. Everyone has their breaking point and do different things when you hit it but if during the investigation and trial they show he needs jail time etc. Than absolutely he should get it.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.

He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.

Rehabilitation is a thing.

So is recidivism.

 

[hazaran]

Der Kaiser is the best thing to happen to the post-Tour-pre-Vuelta blues of all time, he's melting down faster than Chernobyl, this is far from over. I see a judge released him again, I wonder what Jan is doing this very moment :lol:

 

[OldCranky]

Re:

Der Kaiser is the best thing to happen to the post-Tour-pre-Vuelta blues of all time, he's melting down faster than Chernobyl, this is far from over. I see a judge released him again, I wonder what Jan is doing this very moment :lol:

He's probably thinking how tragic it is that someone can find the personal disintegration of another human being humorous. I mean you do realise he's an actual person who is obviously having a very hard time of things at the moment not a character in a work of fiction created for your amusement, right?

Note - if you're under 13, I'll give you a pass. Otherwise, give your head a wobble lad.

I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.

He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.

I wish I lived in your world where everybody can be easily categorised and placed into the right little box. It must be so much easier than the real one.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Der Kaiser is the best thing to happen to the post-Tour-pre-Vuelta blues of all time, he's melting down faster than Chernobyl, this is far from over. I see a judge released him again, I wonder what Jan is doing this very moment :lol:

Yes, this is all so terribly funny grow up

 

[hazaran]

Hello, the guy just tried to strangle a hooker and god knows he has driven more kilometres high as a kite than he ever did sober in his entire life. I'll have my laugh at his expense, no worries.

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

Re:

Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.

No thanks. My guess is that you didn't offer such an admonition when it concerned Harvey Weinstein or Jerry Sandusky or O.J. (if you were alive then) or Lance. This isn't a court of law.

What does the research say on the effectiveness of rehabilitation of violent criminals?

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

Re: Re:

Der Kaiser is the best thing to happen to the post-Tour-pre-Vuelta blues of all time, he's melting down faster than Chernobyl, this is far from over. I see a judge released him again, I wonder what Jan is doing this very moment :lol:

He's probably thinking how tragic it is that someone can find the personal disintegration of another human being humorous. I mean you do realise he's an actual person who is obviously having a very hard time of things at the moment not a character in a work of fiction created for your amusement, right?

Note - if you're under 13, I'll give you a pass. Otherwise, give your head a wobble lad.

I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.

He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.

I wish I lived in your world where everybody can be easily categorised and placed into the right little box. It must be so much easier than the real one.

What a judgmental post. Talk about a hasty appraisal of someone based upon two sentences.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Re: Re:

Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.

No thanks. My guess is that you didn't offer such an admonition when it concerned Harvey Weinstein or Jerry Sandusky or O.J. (if you were alive then) or Lance. This isn't a court of law.

Well that shows how wrong you will be if you try to make assumptions about me.