Jan Ullrich

[irongrl]

I can believe that Jan was overweight entering into the 1998 TdF but still came second to a coked-out, polycythemic, EPO-laden Marco.

Where are the facts that Jan was chronically overweight? Does someone have access to all the TdFs that Jan entered and his physical and blood plasma parameters? Just wondering right.

There are a lot of maybes in the 'urban myths' that Jan was undertrained and overweight. That is not to take anything away from the commitment that his main rival had; extreme dedication to winning one race.

Really, I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but could someone chirp in and help us all out with some facts about Jan. I have been asking for years if anyone knew of his Vo2 Max, what about his weight, LBM, HCT/MCV... over 1996-2006?

NW

Agree- I would like to see those facts too. I do not recall seeing Jan looking overweight in any of his TDFs. I've not seen that many photos of him outside of the TDF but none that I have seen show him to be overweight. He appears to be larger boned and to have more dense muscle than some of the other cyclists but I never thought he was fat.

 

[Berzin]

Agree- I would like to see those facts too. I do not recall seeing Jan looking overweight in any of his TDFs. I've not seen that many photos of him outside of the TDF but none that I have seen show him to be overweight. He appears to be larger boned and to have more dense muscle than some of the other cyclists but I never thought he was fat.

Ullrich may not have been overweight for the Tours he rode after he won, but his struggles with his weight up to those Tours were well-documented year after year.

So, despite the numbers, Jan always shot himself in the foot by starting his seasons having 10-20 pounds to lose, as opposed to showing up in shape.

But the issue is we will never know the answer to all the variables because we don't know what he was doing with any certainty. The prevailing wisdom that if a rider dopes, he's always doped is nothing but conjecture.

The fact is we know Armstrong was doped, and his program was clearly superior to whatever was going on in Ullrich's team.

 

[Velodude]

Ullrich may not have been overweight for the Tours he rode after he won, but his struggles with his weight up to those Tours were well-documented year after year.

So, despite the numbers, Jan always shot himself in the foot by starting his seasons having 10-20 pounds to lose, as opposed to showing up in shape.

But the issue is we will never know the answer to all the variables because we don't know what he was doing with any certainty. The prevailing wisdom that if a rider dopes, he's always doped is nothing but conjecture.

The fact is we know Armstrong was doped, and his program was clearly superior to whatever was going on in Ullrich's team.

Plus Ullrich and his team were hamstrung by allegedly being conservative in their doping practices to avoid/evade positives.

Armstrong and his team could be more reckless for the period before August 2004 as the UCI had autonomous authority of anti doping controls and the UCI were in Armstrong's pocket.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Ullrich may not have been overweight for the Tours he rode after he won, but his struggles with his weight up to those Tours were well-documented year after year.

So, despite the numbers, Jan always shot himself in the foot by starting his seasons having 10-20 pounds to lose, as opposed to showing up in shape.

But the issue is we will never know the answer to all the variables because we don't know what he was doing with any certainty. The prevailing wisdom that if a rider dopes, he's always doped is nothing but conjecture.

The fact is we know Armstrong was doped, and his program was clearly superior to whatever was going on in Ullrich's team.

America always superior - showing those freaky Europeans how to dope.

The fact is we know Armstrong was doped, and you hope his program was clearly superior to whatever was going on in Ullrich's or any other team.

Hope is strong in those days.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Plus Ullrich and his team were hamstrung by allegedly being conservative in their doping practices to avoid/evade positives.

Armstrong and his team could be more reckless for the period before August 2004 as the UCI had autonomous authority of anti doping controls and the UCI were in Armstrong's pocket.

That sounds so sweet.
Poor Ullrich, poor Telekom. Produced so many positives and UCI was behind them 24/7, to end the great cashcow duells.

Hard to avoid positives if you have a University in the back. No chance for Telekom and Freiburg to top the great Americans.

 

[Neworld]

Plus Ullrich and his team were hamstrung by allegedly being conservative in their doping practices to avoid/evade positives.

Armstrong and his team could be more reckless for the period before August 2004 as the UCI had autonomous authority of anti doping controls and the UCI were in Armstrong's pocket.

True

and the Telekom teams always put effort, undeniably important energies into Zabel to help him win stages and the green jersey...not done by Postal/Discovery.

and Ullrich always lost a minute or two in the TTT to Postal/Disc...not a small issue to anyone trying to win a Grand tour. Clearly a tactic that was not appreciated by Telekom...waste energies on Zabel and don't build a team to win the TTT. Humm

NW

 

[Zweistein]

True

and the Telekom teams always put effort, undeniably important energies into Zabel to help him win stages and the green jersey...not done by Postal/Discovery.

and Ullrich always lost a minute or two in the TTT to Postal/Disc...not a small issue to anyone trying to win a Grand tour. Clearly a tactic that was not appreciated by Telekom...waste energies on Zabel and don't build a team to win the TTT. Humm

NW

It doesn't help when you don't have a Ferrari.

Dr.Ferrari

 

[Cobblestoned]

"Jan will talk about his past when time is there", his new PR manager announced. "We can't do it now, because there is still this process.
In best case CAS confirms Swiss Olympic and it's done. If not, it all starts over again and an end can not be seen.
If there will be a judgement then, it could reach from acquittal - to lifetime-ban in cycling."


"Jan wird in gegebener Zeit zu seiner Vergangenheit Stellung nehmen. Jetzt können wir das nicht tun, weil möglicherweise noch ein Verfahren auf ihn zukommt", teilte Nier mit.

"Im Optimalfall bestätigt der CAS am Montag die Entscheidung von Swiss Olympic und die Sache ist erledigt. Wenn die Schweizer doch tätig werden sollen, geht alles wieder von vorne los und ein Ende ist nicht abzusehen. Wenn es dann zu einem Urteil kommt, kann das von Freispruch bis lebenslange Sperre für Tätigkeiten im Berufsradsport reichen", erklärte Ullrichs neuer Sprecher von der PR-Agentur des ehemaligen Tennis-Daviscup-Spielers Charly Steeb.

http://de.eurosport.yahoo.com/21082011/73/ullrich-wort-melden.html

Another ***-comment by Dumbo is also included.
"Isn't it fine when you can go to the Bäckerei without whispering again."

Yeah Rolf. You had so much to lose.
I wouldn't even give Aldag a job as my cat's personal cattoilet-cleaner, and never trusted him.
This guy would even sell his mother without even losing his dirty smile. This guy is so "wrong".

 

[thehog]

"Jan will talk about his past when time is there", his new PR manager announced. "We can't do it now, because there is still this process.
In best case CAS confirms Swiss Olympic and it's done. If not, it all starts over again and an end can not be seen.
If there will be a judgement then, it could reach from acquittal - to lifetime-ban in cycling."


"Jan wird in gegebener Zeit zu seiner Vergangenheit Stellung nehmen. Jetzt können wir das nicht tun, weil möglicherweise noch ein Verfahren auf ihn zukommt", teilte Nier mit.

"Im Optimalfall bestätigt der CAS am Montag die Entscheidung von Swiss Olympic und die Sache ist erledigt. Wenn die Schweizer doch tätig werden sollen, geht alles wieder von vorne los und ein Ende ist nicht abzusehen. Wenn es dann zu einem Urteil kommt, kann das von Freispruch bis lebenslange Sperre für Tätigkeiten im Berufsradsport reichen", erklärte Ullrichs neuer Sprecher von der PR-Agentur des ehemaligen Tennis-Daviscup-Spielers Charly Steeb.

http://de.eurosport.yahoo.com/21082011/73/ullrich-wort-melden.html

Another ***-comment by Dumbo is also included.
"Isn't it fine when you can go to the Bäckerei without whispering again."

Yeah Rolf. You had so much to lose.
I wouldn't even give Aldag a job as my cat's personal cattoilet-cleaner, and never trusted him.
This guy would even sell his mother without even losing his dirty smile. This guy is so "wrong".

I agree with you. Aldag was the one talking about Jan always rooming on his own etc.

Don't worry Jan still has the book up his sleeve to relaease when he finally settles his trouble with the UCI and co. That will fix Aldag.

Which should pave way for Jan to come back into the sport as a DS.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I agree with you. Aldag was the one talking about Jan always rooming on his own etc.

Don't worry Jan still has the book up his sleeve to relaease when he finally settles his trouble with the UCI and co. That will fix Aldag.

Which should pave way for Jan to come back into the sport as a DS.

Do you really think Jan will spill all about Aldag? It will be quite interesting when this book is ever published...can't wait.

 

[thehog]

Do you really think Jan will spill all about Aldag? It will be quite interesting when this book is ever published...can't wait.

Ullrich was the one that forced Aldag's hand to confess. When Jan got booted form the Tour Aldag was swanning about telling the world that Jan roomed alone and was very secretive etc. - Ullrich merely replied with - "Rolf shouldn't say so much or I might release my book sooner rather than later".

The book will come just as soon as he's finalised the legal proceedings.

Should be a good reading year 2012 - Floyd has a new book coming as does Tyer and Jan can complete the set.

 

[MarkvW]

Ullrich was the one that forced Aldag's hand to confess. When Jan got booted form the Tour Aldag was swanning about telling the world that Jan roomed alone and was very secretive etc. - Ullrich merely replied with - "Rolf shouldn't say so much or I might release my book sooner rather than later".

The book will come just as soon as he's finalised the legal proceedings.

Should be a good reading year 2012 - Floyd has a new book coming as does Tyer and Jan can complete the set.

If Floyd comes out with a book, he's just gotta call it "Positively True." Maybe he can even include a detailed errata for his other book! Can't wait to see it on my library's shelves.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I continue here, mewmewmew. Hope its ok for you.
You get some more culture.

Thanks for some insight on the cultural background...I am a huge Jan fan so this is a drag that they feel the need to do this. Oh well, freedom of speech I suppose and all. I'm glad to see Ulle enjoying life again, but agree that he would never take a second-hand Tour maillot jaune.

Lance is true film noir material.

Agree, Jan would never do that.
What we see here and there and everywhere now, is just the boring second part for me. The Lance-part. While part one is still not finished.
Seppelt does both parts now. Is now on Lance too, and travels the US regularly to have coffee with Betsy and soak up Floyd.
He must be the happiest man on earth now. No doubt. I hope he behaved and didn't wet their homes.

dude, I could tell you hundreds of those storys and episodes. Just imagine that this is going on for 5 years now.
And those parasits have a huge platform, while they really enjoy what they do.
This Lance-story HAD to end with Ullrich. It was Seppelt's personal roundup.

For many, Seppelt seems to be a good guy on a "good" mission. But this guy just does it for his own pleasure and glory. He even still claims to have caught Alberto.
Gollum soaks it up to be important and harrass athlets, especially cyclists, especially Jan. But runs away when things are too complicated, like with Russian mafia.
He revealed his true face, when he showed up in a talkshow shortly after Jan announced his retirement. Hidden in the back, and switched in during the show to ask his awesome questions. Jan was fooled by those losers Beckmann and Seppelt.
Jan wanted to stop and cancel the interview, but then continued.
Seppelt really enjoyed it. He nearly slobbered and was close to wetting himself full of pleasure.

Since then, we call him Gollum. I doubt there are many Ullrichfanboys out there who wouldn't spit on him since this showing.

And there is much much more of this. I am tired of witchhunts. Ok, I soon stop now.

But the funniest episode was following:
In the very popular liveshow "aktuelles sportstudio".
They did a phone-poll, which was prepared with great speech and by another ugly and dark reportage about der böse Jan.
With Jan on dark backgrounds (like we know it) , full *** propaganda video about Jan's criminal energy, fat, fraud, suspicious here, suspicious there....the bad bad Jan.
They wanted to design something like a death-vote about him, to round it up.

They asked "Should Jan Ullrich ride the TdF 2007 ?"

IIRC result was ca.82% voting "yes".
You should have seen the face of the showmaster. He was totally perplex and unprepared. They failed. lol
By far the sadest episode was a magazine publishing facts from Jan's very personal life, including emails and thoughts of his wife, and of course bank statements. They wanted to grill and melt him.
Some parts were nothing but pure, ugly revenge by nearly always the same journalists and media.
When you like Ullrich, you really get/got sick and angry just by reading.
Burkert is one of the greatest. You have to be good at reading German to notice his disgusting style. He and Kistner make a great pair.

btw, we are talking about the "nice" Jan here. Too nice.
I have to read all the *** articles freshly coming out about der Jan now.
It becomes a pleasure after a while. To see the German journalists going full ***, and then go full *** on them.

 

[Cobblestoned]

If Floyd comes out with a book, he's just gotta call it "Positively True." Maybe he can even include a detailed errata for his other book! Can't wait to see it on my library's shelves.

This is one of the most brilliant ideas I ever read on a forum.
LMAO.Especially Floyd could make epic.

Rounded up by the Floyd Unfairness Fund.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I continue here, mewmewmew. Hope its ok for you.
You get some more culture.



Agree, Jan would never do that.
What we see here and there and everywhere now, is just the boring second part for me. The Lance-part. While part one is still not finished.
Seppelt does both parts now. Is now on Lance too, and travels the US regularly to have coffee with Betsy and soak up Floyd.
He must be the happiest man on earth now. No doubt. I hope he behaved and didn't wet their homes.

dude, I could tell you hundreds of those storys and episodes. Just imagine that this is going on for 5 years now.
And those parasits have a huge platform, while they really enjoy what they do.
This Lance-story HAD to end with Ullrich. It was Seppelt's personal roundup.

For many, Seppelt seems to be a good guy on a "good" mission. But this guy just does it for his own pleasure and glory. He even still claims to have caught Alberto.
Gollum soaks it up to be important and harrass athlets, especially cyclists, especially Jan. But runs away when things are too complicated, like with Russian mafia.
He revealed his true face, when he showed up in a talkshow shortly after Jan announced his retirement. Hidden in the back, and switched in during the show to ask his awesome questions. Jan was fooled by those losers Beckmann and Seppelt.
Jan wanted to stop and cancel the interview, but then continued.
Seppelt really enjoyed it. He nearly slobbered and was close to wetting himself full of pleasure.

Since then, we call him Gollum. I doubt there are many Ullrichfanboys out there who wouldn't spit on him since this showing.

And there is much much more of this. I am tired of witchhunts. Ok, I soon stop now.

But the funniest episode was following:
In the very popular liveshow "aktuelles sportstudio".
They did a phone-poll, which was prepared with great speech and by another ugly and dark reportage about der böse Jan.
With Jan on dark backgrounds (like we know it) , full *** propaganda video about Jan's criminal energy, fat, fraud, suspicious here, suspicious there....the bad bad Jan.
They wanted to design something like a death-vote about him, to round it up.

They asked "Should Jan Ullrich ride the TdF 2007 ?"

IIRC result was ca.82% voting "yes".
You should have seen the face of the showmaster. He was totally perplex and unprepared. They failed. lol
By far the sadest episode was a magazine publishing facts from Jan's very personal life, including emails and thoughts of his wife, and of course bank statements. They wanted to grill and melt him.
Some parts were nothing but pure, ugly revenge by nearly always the same journalists and media.
When you like Ullrich, you really get/got sick and angry just by reading.
Burkert is one of the greatest. You have to be good at reading German to notice his disgusting style. He and Kistner make a great pair.

btw, we are talking about the "nice" Jan here. Too nice.
I have to read all the *** articles freshly coming out about der Jan now.
It becomes a pleasure after a while. To see the German journalists going full ***, and then go full *** on them.

Thanks C. I like to get the big picture.
In your opinion , Jan is truly a champ to most people isn't he? He seems a very popular and likeable person.
Journalists--or people--- are sometimes lacking in scruples. What can you do...

 

[Berzin]

He was riding at 39°C fever a few days before Alpe d Huez.

Sounds like a case of contaminated blood to me.

 

[joe_papp]

btw, we are talking about the "nice" Jan here. Too nice...

My personal experience with him as recently as a few months ago has been fantastic and the guy really is a "good" guy, irrespective of what his involvement in doping was.

What really bothers me about these witch-hunts and public assassinations is that 90-some-percent of the assassins probably have never spoken a word in private to their victims, yet they pursue them as if they are the spawn of the devil who raped and murder both their wife and their daughter. Meanwhile, Ullrich has been more supportive and encouraging to me than my own mother. I'm all for anti-doping, but I'm not for anti-doping for its own sake and certainly not with the goal in mind of humiliating or harming someone like Jan Ullrich who is so not the problem.

And what the UCI said about the need to pursue Jan so as not to set a precedent is BS. They're not the Supreme Court or even a judicial body and leaving Ullrich alone doesn't prevent them from pursuing the next, current doper.

 

[thehog]

My personal experience with him as recently as a few months ago has been fantastic and the guy really is a "good" guy, irrespective of what his involvement in doping was.

What really bothers me about these witch-hunts and public assassinations is that 90-some-percent of the assassins probably have never spoken a word in private to their victims, yet they pursue them as if they are the spawn of the devil who raped and murder both their wife and their daughter. Meanwhile, Ullrich has been more supportive and encouraging to me than my own mother. I'm all for anti-doping, but I'm not for anti-doping for its own sake and certainly not with the goal in mind of humiliating or harming someone like Jan Ullrich who is so not the problem.

And what the UCI said about the need to pursue Jan so as not to set a precedent is BS. They're not the Supreme Court or even a judicial body and leaving Ullrich alone doesn't prevent them from pursuing the next, current doper.

Jan is currently in Dubai opening up a health club with one of his yellow jersey's on the wall.... happy days.... UCI who?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

My personal experience with him as recently as a few months ago has been fantastic and the guy really is a "good" guy, irrespective of what his involvement in doping was.

What really bothers me about these witch-hunts and public assassinations is that 90-some-percent of the assassins probably have never spoken a word in private to their victims, yet they pursue them as if they are the spawn of the devil who raped and murder both their wife and their daughter. Meanwhile, Ullrich has been more supportive and encouraging to me than my own mother. I'm all for anti-doping, but I'm not for anti-doping for its own sake and certainly not with the goal in mind of humiliating or harming someone like Jan Ullrich who is so not the problem.

And what the UCI said about the need to pursue Jan so as not to set a precedent is BS. They're not the Supreme Court or even a judicial body and leaving Ullrich alone doesn't prevent them from pursuing the next, current doper.

Totally agree. I knew Jan when he was a Jr., and it's nice to hear that his understated classiness has continued.

Absolutely agree that Jan (et al, as riders are concerned) is not the problem. It's an easy media mark to make 'anti-doping' points without putting any effort into root cause or foundation of the problem.

Lazy and sensationalist journalism has a market. That's too bad. Jan's certainly not some one-off evil-doer that came up with this on his own.

The UCI has a hand in that since they're incappable of being effective, and all cycling fans have a hand in it as well - you can't vilify Jan and love Zable at the same time. They're the same side of the same coin.

Wishing you well, Joe. Good luck.

 

[Poursuivant]

Always comes across as a nice man.

 

[ChrisE]

Here we go again with the victim cyclists.

 

[Cloxxki]

There's nothing wrong with cleaning up cycling starting at the bullies and schmucks of the peloton. Have to start somewhere, might as well start there. As much as I like Jan's riding and personality, I don't approve of his doping. I just have difficulty disliking the guys, as he is actually a good guy. Other dopers standing out as unfriendly, ego centric, etc, get a larger piece of my dislike pie. I'd be lying to say I'm not subjective.

 

[Poursuivant]

There's nothing wrong with cleaning up cycling starting at the bullies and schmucks of the peloton. Have to start somewhere, might as well start there. As much as I like Jan's riding and personality, I don't approve of his doping. I just have difficulty disliking the guys, as he is actually a good guy. Other dopers standing out as unfriendly, ego centric, etc, get a larger piece of my dislike pie. I'd be lying to say I'm not subjective.

Me too......

 

[Bavarianrider]

Less then 48 hours untill the Cas verdict

 

[Neworld]

Less then 48 hours untill the Cas verdict

What are the possible outcomes? Or is it a matter of whether or not this decision will lead to other more involved charges?

How are his bike sales doing?

NW