Jan Ullrich

[86TDFWinner]

Just being pedantic, but it was his 2005 third place that they took, I think 02 was the year he was injured and missed the Tour. His incredibly retroactive suspension was Puerto-involved, and so affected his results from 05-06 (to his forced retirement).

Thanks for the correction. I knew they took a 3rd place from him, just couldnt remember exactly when. You're right on the timeframe(injury), didnt he crash earlier that season?

 

[roundabout]

He also was banned for speed, wasn't he?

But I think he went clubbing after his injury.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Jean Cyril Robin stopped doping after 1998, before he didn't like it either but most probably did it as much as necessary to keep his place.

It was great for him to finish 3rd in the 1999 world road championship.

Great recent interview (in French) here :

http://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/un...inir-les-regles-du-jeu-_3638-2125932_actu.Htm

Heulot? I don't know. Probably more or less the same, but on the more side.

Nice link, je vous merci. Enfin, there was no winner in 1997. Francois Simon? That would be funny.

 

[mountainrman]

How can you say he "didnt have a killer instinct", he doped and won a TDF, he DOES know how to win. Had the UCI/WADA handed Jan a few of Wonderboys yellows, Jan would've(atleast on paper) won what 4 titles?.

Had Jan never won anything, your statement would be spot on. But Jan won, so he did know how to win/had the killer instinct. What we've learned over the last 4 months, it seems to make Jan look like an even better rider imo. He lost out to a guy who doped to the gills to beat him and every other rider.

I am judging not just from the LA years but observing him in the tour Pantani "won" and occasions since - when things were going badly his body language was that of a beaten man. True winners have such belief they never give up despite the odds. ullrich seemingly could only keep his belief when the tide was with him. His body language gave him away. I actually think he was too nice a guy to swim with the sharks.

 

[Neworld]

Fair enough, I don't know if they striped him I must say. Never tested positive, besides the coke of course

Are you sure it was coccaine?

I'm pretty sure it was E. FFS Boonen was riding on Coccaine (that we know of) for at least 2 yrs, not E.

I sure would like to know how E is a PED?

 

[samerics]

Are you sure it was coccaine?

I'm pretty sure it was E. FFS Boonen was riding on Coccaine (that we know of) for at least 2 yrs, not E.

I sure would like to know how E is a PED?

I thought it was amphetamines taken in a club?

 

[forumlurker]

I thought it was amphetamines taken in a club?

ecstasy, i think

 

[webvan]

And to think that these a**holes at the UCI tried to get him a lifetime ban for a double doping offense before CAS told them to shove it because E/Amphetamines are no longer being banned out of competition. Talk about "double" standards compared to dopestrong when they only relented when Trygart put their face in it...and it seems he's not done with them.

 

[Neworld]

And to think that these a**holes at the UCI tried to get him a lifetime ban for a double doping offense before CAS told them to shove it because E/Amphetamines are no longer being banned out of competition. Talk about "double" standards compared to dopestrong when they only relented when Trygart put their face in it...and it seems he's not done with them.

That bad Jan, trying to have a good time on the 'Love Drug'. In this instance he was really 'loading' to win bike races out of competition. Sheesh.

Ecstasy, or methylene-dioxymethyl amphetamine (MDMA), is a synthetic hallucinogenic stimulant, which usually comes in pill form. The drug is a stimulant that produces psychedelic effects, and it's manufactured in home laboratories.

The street price of E has fallen over the last ten years, from $36 per pill in 1988 to around $10 per pill now. The sheer volume of ecstasy, however, means that you can buy in bulk, say 50 pills, for as little as $5 each, although they can be as cheap as $3 per pill. The price depends on a number of factors, including location, quality and the person selling them.
A person who is under the influence of the Love Drug will feel good.

 

[ElChingon]

He also was banned for speed, wasn't he?

But I think he went clubbing after his injury.

Yes, and he was also always overweight in the off season and when not riding much which the speed would of helped in keeping the excess kilos off, so performance enhancing for Jan. Clubbing was a nice excuse like a crack addict saying watching the wire pushed them to do it.

 

[Neworld]

Yes, and he was also always overweight in the off season and when not riding much which the speed would of helped in keeping the excess kilos off, so performance enhancing for Jan. Clubbing was a nice excuse like a crack addict saying watching the wire pushed them to do it.

There goes the historical journalist propaganda again..."oh that Jan, his cadence is too low, a powerful rider, a turbo diesel not capable of explosive accelerations, not mentally strong enough, always overweight"...

Yes a few off seasons he had excess weight, some pros still do today. But not always. In fact many tours he was paper thin.

And the CAS report/decision states that he was taking amph's in hospital...see quote and link.

The BDR Bundessportgericht at the time took into account that
Ullrich was at the time of the infraction in hospital, suffering from depression, and did not take amphetamines to improve his sporting performance.

http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/5691/5048/0/Award20FINAL202083202012.02.09.pdf

So, could he have be a long-term amph user ? Maybe, but there is no evidence to support that.

 

[thehog]

There goes the historical journalist propaganda again..."oh that Jan, his cadence is too low, a powerful rider, a turbo diesel not capable of explosive accelerations, not mentally strong enough, always overweight"...

Yes a few off seasons he had excess weight, some pros still do today. But not always. In fact many tours he was paper thin.

And the CAS report/decision states that he was taking amph's in hospital...see quote and link.


http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/5691/5048/0/Award20FINAL202083202012.02.09.pdf

So, could he have be a long-term amph user ? Maybe, but there is no evidence to support that.

He was out for 6 months with a knee injury. He took ecstasy clubbing in Munich. Then was picked up by a random control. Ex is an amphetamine.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

And the CAS report/decision states that he was taking amph's in hospital...see quote and link.

Read the CAS report on Contador? Pointing to CAS is not really an argument given the Contador ruling.

Der Jan was a major doper, and, given his built, a great responder to it as well. He and wonderboy were made for the autobus.

I must say I like der Jan much much much more than dopestrong, but that is not the issue.

Yes, and he was also always overweight in the off season and when not riding much which the speed would of helped in keeping the excess kilos off, so performance enhancing for Jan. Clubbing was a nice excuse like a crack addict saying watching the wire pushed them to do it.

Nice one. A bit confrontational but also very well possible.

With regard to Boonen and his coke: isn't coke part of pot Belge? Not a question of course. Same for Simoni.

 

[Neworld]

Der Jan was a major doper, and, given his built, a great responder to it as well.

Overall, Jan was a doper as much as the other top 40 GT Racers, and if Livingstone is correct about his HCT never being higher than 42 then you are wrong. If the numerous unbiased comments from fellow teammates about Jans innate athletic superiority are true, then you are wrong.

When you say responder what do you mean? To EPO, to Steroids?

I will never support dopers and Jan was a doper. But I think clarification of what was purported to be fact, which was severely smeared, needs clarification. After what has come out in 2012 wrt Lancey I think it deserves a recalibration.

Jan did not have the UCI, ASO in his pocket. Beyond 2000/01 Jan did not command the attention of the media like LA. And, Jan was a very likable rider for whatever that's worth.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Overall, Jan was a doper as much as the other top 40 GT Racers, and if Livingstone is correct about his HCT never being higher than 42 then you are wrong. If the numerous unbiased comments from fellow teammates about Jans innate athletic superiority are true, then you are wrong.

Mellow Johnny's employee Kevin L. became teammate of der Jan when? 2001? There was an EPO test back then perhaps? Maybe that is why der Jan's htc didn't go over 41-42?

Maybe dear old Kevin could talk about the blood bags next time.

Note, always nice to have a friend on the team of your 'enemy', being Livingston - butbuddy with dear old Lancelot - on the same team with der Jan...

Nevertheless, it is weak to point at the other dopers, we are talking about der Jan here.

When you say responder what do you mean? To EPO, to Steroids?

EPO of course, big assed riders most of the time were the best responders to EPO, many muscles, much O2 needed.

Note: wouldn't it be nice when riders would have to explain why they had hematocrits of 49,9999999999999 in 2000 while in 2002 they were on 41 - 42?
Never happened.

I will never support dopers and Jan was a doper. But I think clarification of what was purported to be fact, which was severely smeared, needs clarification. After what has come out in 2012 wrt Lancey I think it deserves a recalibration.

Good on you, and you are right to do so.

In my case the positive of Pantani in 1999's Giro still bothers me, a set up by the UCI/gambling maffia.

Jan did not have the UCI, ASO in his pocket. Beyond 2000/01 Jan did not command the attention of the media like LA. And, Jan was a very likable rider for whatever that's worth.

Pharmstrong mad a mockery of der Jan, it was tragic. I do feel for Jan to a certain degree. 1997 was 'unbelievable', 1998 was more believable, the machine had a bad day! Never seen that with the wonderboy, wait, one day, with the idiotic attack Pantani made in the Tour of 2000, wonderboy even had to call Ferrari if Pantani would be able to continue all the way and forgot to eat his sandwich, which ended in a chasse patate.

I also liked der Jan, as a TT'er, just like der Toni now. When der Toni is able to destroy Contador on Arcalis we will be having a problem, not?

 

[blackcat]

Overall, Jan was a doper as much as the other top 40 GT Racers, and if Livingstone is correct about his HCT never being higher than 42 then you are wrong. If the numerous unbiased comments from fellow teammates about Jans innate athletic superiority are true, then you are wrong.

When you say responder what do you mean? To EPO, to Steroids?

I will never support dopers and Jan was a doper. But I think clarification of what was purported to be fact, which was severely smeared, needs clarification. After what has come out in 2012 wrt Lancey I think it deserves a recalibration.

Jan did not have the UCI, ASO in his pocket. Beyond 2000/01 Jan did not command the attention of the media like LA. And, Jan was a very likable rider for whatever that's worth.

Udo Bolts said Jan could not climb a lick til Telekom got him on epo

 

[Bavarianrider]

Udo Bolts said Jan could not climb a lick til Telekom got him on epo

That's simply not true.
Show me where he said it like that.
In reality Bölts said that when Ullrich joined Telekom in 1995 he struggled in the high mountains in a Epo juiced peleton. People had high expectations for Ullrichs first pro year already but he couldn't fullfil them. Which souldn't be a suprise. A 21 year old clean rookie obviously has a hard time in a no limit Epo juiced peleton.
No matter what, his talent was obvious to everyone already by that time. Just remember what Jeff D#Hont said about Ullrich.

 

[slowspoke]

That's simply not true.
Show me where he said it like that.
In reality Bölts said that when Ullrich joined Telekom in 1995 he struggled in the high mountains in a Epo juiced peleton. People had high expectations for Ullrichs first pro year already but he couldn't fullfil them. Which souldn't be a suprise. A 21 year old clean rookie obviously has a hard time in a no limit Epo juiced peleton.
No matter what, his talent was obvious to everyone already by that time. Just remember what Jeff D#Hont said about Ullrich.

I find it difficult to believe that Ullrich, brought up in East Germany during the systematic doping era, was ever clean. That said what he did in 96/97 was unbelievable and his toughness in 2004 edition where he was clearly on a bad BB was remarkable.

 

[blackcat]

ask Race Radio.

what the f r u talking about as a 21 yo clean rookie.

Jan came thru the East German GDR stasi doping state.



was


Nev ah

clean

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

That's simply not true.
Show me where he said it like that.
In reality Bölts said that when Ullrich joined Telekom in 1995 he struggled in the high mountains in a Epo juiced peleton. People had high expectations for Ullrichs first pro year already but he couldn't fullfil them. Which souldn't be a suprise. A 21 year old clean rookie obviously has a hard time in a no limit Epo juiced peleton.
No matter what, his talent was obvious to everyone already by that time. Just remember what Jeff D#Hont said about Ullrich.

So it is fair to say der Jan went on the EPO at the beginning of 1996? Given the fact he suddenly was able to destroy big EPOMig with almost a minute?

And, really, do not bring up Jeff, that dog [translation for d'Hondt] is a moron first class, he is no credible reference. He saw donkey Riis turn into a racehorse, that is what he thinks of 'potential'.

If der Jan would have been the best TT'er of his age, maybe even in the Flanders Classics, no one would ever have had any problems with the guy. But with that build storming up mountains, please, no.

Given his spectacular transformation in 1996 he might even be compared to Chris Froome if we count out his under 23 World Champs.

 

[blackcat]

amateur world champs. albeit, default espoir/U23 agreed!

and he won in a decimated field sprint.

 

[Bavarianrider]

So it is fair to say der Jan went on the EPO at the beginning of 1996? Given the fact he suddenly was able to destroy big EPOMig with almost a minute?

And, really, do not bring up Jeff, that dog [translation for d'Hondt] is a moron first class, he is no credible reference. He saw donkey Riis turn into a racehorse, that is what he thinks of 'potential'.

If der Jan would have been the best TT'er of his age, maybe even in the Flanders Classics, no one would ever have had any problems with the guy. But with that build storming up mountains, please, no.

Given his spectacular transformation in 1996 he might even be compared to Chris Froome if we count out his under 23 World Champs.

What incredible built?
Ullrich's Tour weight was 71 Kilos in 1996-1997.
Don't make it looklike he was that heavy. He wasn't.
He had always been good on hills in his Junior/Amateur years.
Before 1995 Ullrich had hardly ever done a high mountain in a race, no wonder he needed to adjust.
Ulrich was third in the Time Trial World Championchips when he was 20 and an amateur.

 

[Bavarianrider]

ask Race Radio.

what the f r u talking about as a 21 yo clean rookie.

Jan came thru the East German GDR stasi doping state.



was


Nev ah

clean

He was 16 when the system collapsed
Anayway, he was not on Epo/Blood Doping in 1995. That's pretty safe.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

What incredible built?
Ullrich's Tour weight was 71 Kilos in 1996-1997.
Don't make it looklike he was that heavy. He wasn't.
He had always been good on hills in his Junior/Amateur years.
Before 1995 Ullrich had hardly ever done a high mountain in a race, no wonder he needed to adjust.
Ulrich was third in the Time Trial World Championchips when he was 20 and an amateur.

Lying is for fanboys. He went on the Jeff program age 20.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Lying is for fanboys. He went on the Jeff program age 20.

He was not a member of the Pro team in 1994. Fact.
He was still offically an amateur and was not signed pro with Telekom nor did he race in any major races with the pro team.
He did most likely not even see d'Hont before in 1995