Jay Vine discussion thread

[Jungle Cycle]

Bre Vine on Instagram: "'The wait' Seems like the appropriate song choice for this reel. You all knew I'd film it for you, so here you go! This is my emotional roller-coaster when watching @jay_vine3 achieve one of his life dreams. #proudwifepostain

2,550 likes, 127 comments - bre_vine on August 26, 2022: "'The wait' Seems like the appropriate song choice for this reel. You all knew I'd film it for you..."

www.instagram.com

 

[sir fly]

a

I finally got that

How old are you?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Sporza interview tonight. He says in his best ever form he was 66kg and he had an FTP of 420 watt. This was when he was fighting to get the contract.

 

[42x16ss]

Did anyone see the crash that took him out? Looks like ut happened right in front of him

 

[Nick2413]

Sporza interview tonight. He says in his best ever form he was 66kg and he had an FTP of 420 watt. This was when he was fighting to get the contract.

When he was doing all that Zwift did he have any incentive to manage his weight like a regular rider? I assumed he would have been higher weight and therefore FTP in the Zwift days but he’s surprisingly listed at 69k on PCS so theoretically could have an even higher FTP now, if weights are to be trusted.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

When he was doing all that Zwift did he have any incentive to manage his weight like a regular rider? I assumed he would have been higher weight and therefore FTP in the Zwift days but he’s surprisingly listed at 69k on PCS so theoretically could have an even higher FTP now, if weights are to be trusted.

Because Zwift looks at W/kg.

You can check the video interview in English here: https://sporza.be/nl/2022/09/08/ber...ik-6-4-watt-kg-trapte-op-zwift~1662625982599/

 

[yaco]

When he was doing all that Zwift did he have any incentive to manage his weight like a regular rider? I assumed he would have been higher weight and therefore FTP in the Zwift days but he’s surprisingly listed at 69k on PCS so theoretically could have an even higher FTP now, if weights are to be trusted.

He was riding on the road in the NRS in Australia from 2017 to 2020, albeit he had a full time job.

 

[Lequack]

He's off to UAE team:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/jay-vine-makes-surprise-transfer-from-alpecin-deceuninck-to-uae-team-emirates/

"Australian climber and Zwift talent makes move despite 2023 contract with current team "

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588125848808423425

View: https://twitter.com/TeamEmiratesUAE/status/1588125848808423425

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I wonder what Alpecin gets. A contract has to have some meaning, right?

 

[Lequack]

No doubt Alpecin got some compensation.

 

[Berniece]

Don't think this is a smart move for him professionally, would have a lot more freedom at Alpecin to find himself and really know what his capabilities are.

Financially this is obviously the better choice.

 

[KZD]

Given that UAE has already so many climbers I don't think that this is a good signing for neither of the parts involved purely from a racing perspective. Where they lag behind Jumbo is in the rouleurs department and signing only Wellens is underwhelming especially given that Jumbo got Van Baarle and Tratnik.

 

[Red Rick]

No doubt Alpecin got some compensation.

Given Vine won 2 Vuelta stages and the fact his contract was probably very low I don't doubt there's a 6 figure compensation involved.

 

[Berniece]

Given Vine won 2 Vuelta stages and the fact his contract was probably very low I don't doubt there's a 6 figure compensation involved.

Is it only paying the contract? Alpecin can claim marketing, and sponsorship purposes too, right? I remember Lefevere saying that if Ineos wanted Remco they needed to pay around 125 million to compensate everything.

 

[Red Rick]

Is it only paying the contract? Alpecin can claim marketing, and sponsorship purposes too, right? I remember Lefevere saying that if Ineos wanted Remco they needed to pay around 125 million to compensate everything.

Assuming it's like football, you can probably ask a higher transfer price for a rider that's on a low wage.

Also the Evenepoel number is ***.

 

[Billie]

he was most likely on a minimum contract so to buy that out it's quite cheap

 

[Mayomaniac]

Assuming it's like football, you can probably ask a higher transfer price for a rider that's on a low wage.

Also the Evenepoel number is ***.

Lefevre is full of ***, but that's like saying that the sky is blue...

 

[tobydawq]

Assuming it's like football, you can probably ask a higher transfer price for a rider that's on a low wage.

Also the Evenepoel number is ***.

It depends on which currency he is talking about.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

In Evenepoel's case, the number Lefevere gave was simply to say, it's not gonna happen. He could also have said 1 billion. The thing is that they got QuickStep to raise their budget, and get Soudal onboard to sponsor a lot more than they did at Lotto, and both those sponsors did so under the condition that Evenepoel was on the team. That means legal issues would be a lot more complicated and probably Evenepoel would have signed additional contracts.

In any other case, in Belgium at least to my knowledge, any employee can get out of their contract if they pay the equivalent sum equal to what the contract is worth, which is the number the employee would get paid over the remaining duration of the contract. So if Vine would have 2 years on his contract left, and gets paid 100.000 euro per year, he would have to pay 200.000 to get out of his contract. Which UAE would obviously be happy to front him.

 

[AlfaLum]

In Evenepoel's case, the number Lefevere gave was simply to say, it's not gonna happen. He could also have said 1 billion. The thing is that they got QuickStep to raise their budget, and get Soudal onboard to sponsor a lot more than they did at Lotto, and both those sponsors did so under the condition that Evenepoel was on the team. That means legal issues would be a lot more complicated and probably Evenepoel would have signed additional contracts.

In any other case, in Belgium at least to my knowledge, any employee can get out of their contract if they pay the equivalent sum equal to what the contract is worth, which is the number the employee would get paid over the remaining duration of the contract. So if Vine would have 2 years on his contract left, and gets paid 100.000 euro per year, he would have to pay 200.000 to get out of his contract. Which UAE would obviously be happy to front him.

Is that the same with sports contracts? Because that would be quite crazy with footballers for example where pretty steep prices have been paid for certain players..

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Is that the same with sports contracts? Because that would be quite crazy with footballers for example where pretty steep prices have been paid for certain players..

Yes, it is the same with sports, even footballers. The teams in Belgium have a "gentleman's agreement" not to make use of it. You can look up "wet van '78" if you want to know more about it. There was also the "Bosman arrest" which took a lot of power away from teams and gave players more leverage. It only makes sense that you would have a legal way to get out of an employee contract in case you pay a certain compensation. People are not slaves. If you are no longer happy at your job, you should be able to leave. I think this compensation is cleverly set to the remainder of the contract. If the employer wanted to get more money, he should have valued his employee more with a better contract. If the employee wanted to pay less, he was very happy to get that money when he was on the receiving end. It makes perfect sense. It's the value of the remainder of the contract as agreed by both parties when signing it. Neither party has to come crying later on.

In the case of Van Aert vs Nuyens, which is also an option, Van Aert claimed Nuyens was not holding his part of the deal which supposedly gave Van Aert the option to terminate the contract unilaterally. This case is still ongoing. Obviously Nuyens claims the opposite.

 

[Red Rick]

Is that the same with sports contracts? Because that would be quite crazy with footballers for example where pretty steep prices have been paid for certain players..

Probably depends on location. In Spain it's mandatory to have a buy out clause, so Madrid and Barça just give their players a so called '*** off' clause that's like 500 million to 1 billion. Neymars 200 million deal was actually intended to never happen, but somehow PSG just paid the clause.

 

[AlfaLum]

Yes, it is the same with sports, even footballers. The teams in Belgium have a "gentleman's agreement" not to make use of it. You can look up "wet van '78" if you want to know more about it. There was also the "Bosman arrest" which took a lot of power away from teams and gave players more leverage. It only makes sense that you would have a legal way to get out of an employee contract in case you pay a certain compensation. People are not slaves. If you are no longer happy at your job, you should be able to leave. I think this compensation is cleverly set to the remainder of the contract. If the employer wanted to get more money, he should have valued his employee more with a better contract. If the employee wanted to pay less, he was very happy to get that money when he was on the receiving end. It makes perfect sense. It's the value of the remainder of the contract as agreed by both parties when signing it. Neither party has to come crying later on.

In the case of Van Aert vs Nuyens, which is also an option, Van Aert claimed Nuyens was not holding his part of the deal which supposedly gave Van Aert the option to terminate the contract unilaterally. This case is still ongoing. Obviously Nuyens claims the opposite.

Yeah I know about the Bosman arrest, but thought that was more with contracts that where at an end.

But for example with de Ketelaere, was he really on a contract worth that much? Or clubs like Milan just don’t want to abuse the contract situation in Belgium?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yeah I know about the Bosman arrest, but thought that was more with contracts that where at an end.

But for example with de Ketelaere, was he really on a contract worth that much? Or clubs like Milan just don’t want to abuse the contract situation in Belgium?

Like i said, football clubs have a gentleman's agreement not to take that route (not to pressure players into breaking out of their old contract), and also players generally don't contribute unless they really want to leave and are no longer on speaking terms with their (old) club. It starts with the player, not with the new team. The new team can not buy out the contract, it is the player who has to do it. The contract is between him and the (old) club. So if the player doesn't want to fck over his old team, there is nothing the new team can do about that.

 

[Lequack]

New kit, training in Australia