Jens Voigt.....is ridiculous

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Jens is never boring. Jens struggles, Jens attacks, Jens fails and Jens sometimes wins. Then he talks that straight-up I-love-cycling-my-face-off talk in that Shprockets accent and I lap it up. Jens doesn't make up tropical diseases or tell me his dope was for his dog. Or Frank's. Jens says leave us alone and what do you expect–we have kids to feed.

The difference between myself and your imaginary club is that I don't think Jens is clean, I don't tell people Jens is clean, and I don't bludgeon logic and probability into a corner so I can live with the idea that Jens is clean.

I love cycling. Jens loves cycling. We all love cycling. I can't bring myself to get worked up about Jens. I guess I'm part of the problem.

http://blogs.bicycling.com/blogs/hardlyserious/2012/10/30/turbulent-times/

''It certainly reinforced to me that doping was wrong and not something I ever wanted to get involved with, not ever. My wife, Stephanie, and I were starting what would become our family of six children, and the thought that my kids would one day learn that their dad was a doper just was not a possibility.''

''Then I signed with Bjarne Riis and CSC. After six years on Crédit Agricole I was ready for a change. And Riis offered that, because in 2004 he had the most different and innovative team out there. I mean, who had ever heard of survival camps? In addition to training hard, we had some of the most sophisticated training programs. We had the best time-trial equipment, and Bjarne gave us tremendous team spirit and made it fun to race together.


Perhaps his strength was that he paid attention to every detail and that’s why we hit the ground running and won a lot of races early in the season.''

''Hey, just look at me! I am 41 years old and still here, still competitive. I honestly think that’s because our sport is cleaner and we have a level playing field. We start with the same chances for everyone because there’s no organized doping anymore. It’s the cycling of today, where hard work and dedication pay off. OK, I’m not as strong as I was five or 10 years ago back, but that’s normal, because that’s simply the way nature works. I don’t like to admit it but as one gets older one loses strength!''

I agrees, Jens is fun.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I had a distinct sense of deja vu reading that.

Weird.

 

[pastronef]

The difference between myself and your imaginary club is that I don't think Jens is clean, I don't tell people Jens is clean, and I don't bludgeon logic and probability into a corner so I can live with the idea that Jens is clean.

I love cycling. Jens loves cycling. We all love cycling. I can't bring myself to get worked up about Jens. I guess I'm part of the problem.

The difference between myself and your imaginary club is that I don't think * is clean, I don't tell people * is clean, and I don't bludgeon logic and probability into a corner so I can live with the idea that * is clean.

insert * the name of many of the riders we follow and enjoy watching

 

[del1962]

One small difference being Jens (nor his fans) has never pretended to be anything he is not... certainly not the world's greatest ever cyclist...

Has anyone said that Froome is the worlds greatest ever cyclist?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

One small difference being Jens (nor his fans) has never pretended to be anything he is not... certainly not the world's greatest ever cyclist...

In terms of making the sport into a circus, I see no difference between Voigt and Froome at this point.

Fans can do whatever they like. They are paying for the show.

http://blogs.bicycling.com/blogs/hardlyserious/2012/10/30/turbulent-times/

''It certainly reinforced to me that doping was wrong and not something I ever wanted to get involved with, not ever. My wife, Stephanie, and I were starting what would become our family of six children, and the thought that my kids would one day learn that their dad was a doper just was not a possibility.''

''Then I signed with Bjarne Riis and CSC. After six years on Crédit Agricole I was ready for a change. And Riis offered that, because in 2004 he had the most different and innovative team out there. I mean, who had ever heard of survival camps? In addition to training hard, we had some of the most sophisticated training programs. We had the best time-trial equipment, and Bjarne gave us tremendous team spirit and made it fun to race together.


Perhaps his strength was that he paid attention to every detail and that’s why we hit the ground running and won a lot of races early in the season.''

''Hey, just look at me! I am 41 years old and still here, still competitive. I honestly think that’s because our sport is cleaner and we have a level playing field. We start with the same chances for everyone because there’s no organized doping anymore. It’s the cycling of today, where hard work and dedication pay off. OK, I’m not as strong as I was five or 10 years ago back, but that’s normal, because that’s simply the way nature works. I don’t like to admit it but as one gets older one loses strength!''

I agrees, Jens is fun.

The dopers are still firmly in control of the peloton. All on song.
Will it change? Maybe.

And yes, CSC was the model used by team Sky on many accounts. Hell, many of the people worked both places.

I had a distinct sense of deja vu reading that.

Weird.

Groundhog Day.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Fans can do whatever they like. They are paying for the show.

Game, set, match.

 

[red_flanders]

http://blogs.bicycling.com/blogs/hardlyserious/2012/10/30/turbulent-times/

''It certainly reinforced to me that doping was wrong and not something I ever wanted to get involved with, not ever. My wife, Stephanie, and I were starting what would become our family of six children, and the thought that my kids would one day learn that their dad was a doper just was not a possibility.''

''Then I signed with Bjarne Riis and CSC. After six years on Crédit Agricole I was ready for a change. And Riis offered that, because in 2004 he had the most different and innovative team out there. I mean, who had ever heard of survival camps? In addition to training hard, we had some of the most sophisticated training programs. We had the best time-trial equipment, and Bjarne gave us tremendous team spirit and made it fun to race together.


Perhaps his strength was that he paid attention to every detail and that’s why we hit the ground running and won a lot of races early in the season.''

''Hey, just look at me! I am 41 years old and still here, still competitive. I honestly think that’s because our sport is cleaner and we have a level playing field. We start with the same chances for everyone because there’s no organized doping anymore. It’s the cycling of today, where hard work and dedication pay off. OK, I’m not as strong as I was five or 10 years ago back, but that’s normal, because that’s simply the way nature works. I don’t like to admit it but as one gets older one loses strength!''

I agrees, Jens is fun.

I'm not sure I get your point. That Jens is probably lying about his use of doping? Yes, it would seem so.

My point is that I like Jens. I like cycling and to follow the sport I have had to root for cyclists I think or know are doping, because it's been so pervasive. At least Jens is entertaining to watch ride, and entertaining to hear speak.

So among likely dopers, I root for those characters I like. Like Horner and Jens. Doesn't mean I think they're clean or that their denials are in any way believable.

I would certainly prefer to think that there are top riders who are clean. I find it difficult to list many. I also think it possible that Jens has ridden parts of his career clean, and may in fact be very happy that he doesn't have to dope as much as he used to. Within the lie there is often truth.

 

[red_flanders]

Has anyone said that Froome is the worlds greatest ever cyclist?

Well, I think Rasmussen said that if he's clean he's the greatest cyclist in the history of the world, which is about as accurate an assessment of Froome as I've ever heard.

By extension I think anyone believing he's clean would have to agree at least that he is among the top 3 most talented cyclists in the history of the sport to produce such performances. But that's kind of where the clean argument falls on its face. Hard.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Jens is a d*uche, and for the sake of realism, all his interview answers SHOULD BE PUBLISHED IN ALL CAPS!

FOR THAT IS HOW HE SPEAKS!

SHUT UP LEGS?

SHUT UP CRITICS!

The guy is the court jester of pro cycling...

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

My point is that I like Jens.

Me too, he is a bit like the old Flandriens, he only should keep his lips sealed.

 

[del1962]

Well, I think Rasmussen said that if he's clean he's the greatest cyclist in the history of the world, which is about as accurate an assessment of Froome as I've ever heard.

By extension I think anyone believing he's clean would have to agree at least that he is among the top 3 most talented cyclists in the history of the sport to produce such performances. But that's kind of where the clean argument falls on its face. Hard.

I dont buy that BS from Ras though, Froome is the best current stage racer thats all, I think Ras might actaully be a bit thick.

Most of the BS comes from a lack of understanding of how climbs are raced differently in different races, particularly climbs that aren't used a lot, anybody who knows a little bit about endurance sports can tell that, but not many in the clinic

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I dont buy that BS from Ras though, Froome is the best current stage racer thats all, I think Ras might actaully be a bit thick.

Most of the BS comes from a lack of understanding of how climbs are raced differently in different races, particularly climbs that aren't used a lot, anybody who knows a little bit about endurance sports can tell that, but not many in the clinic

Might be time to look up "apologist"

 

[del1962]

Might be time to look up "apologist"

You must think you are witty

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Most of the BS comes from a lack of understanding of how climbs are raced differently in different races, particularly climbs that aren't used a lot, anybody who knows a little bit about endurance sports can tell that, but not many in the clinic

I think you have a good point here Del, the most here are fairly new to the sport, not unlike a lot of 'the Islanders' who have always had an intrest in pro - cycling

Sorry, couldnt resist

 

[del1962]

I think you have a good point here Del, the most here are fairly new to the sport, not unlike a lot of 'the Islanders' who have always had an intrest in pro - cycling

Sorry, couldnt resist

Thats all right, I don't mind a bit of humour

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

You must think you are witty

Yeah, a bit. But mostly I think you have to go back and reread your post.

Chicken has no idea what *** climbing looks like? No time kicking *ss in the peloton? No accurate frame of reference? Absolutely no clue who may still be charging?

Seriously?

And don't think that you're the only chump with "endurance sports background" that shows up in the clinic. There's a lot more experience and wisdom here than you give credit to.

Really, go back and reread your post and tell me you're not trying to minimize what an experienced GT stomper, and an experienced doper, has to say about the current king.

Maybe you just like Sky's credibility...

 

[pastronef]

So among likely dopers, I root for those characters I like. Like Horner and Jens. Doesn't mean I think they're clean or that their denials are in any way believable.

agree with you

 

[DirtyWorks]

http://blogs.bicycling.com/blogs/hardlyserious/2012/10/30/turbulent-times/
... honestly think that’s because our sport is cleaner and we have a level playing field.

Did you know 2014 will be the year of the cleanest peloton ever?


Do they do multi-team cage matches in entertainment wrestling any more? That's the UCI's niche. Horner and Jens are the right direction for the UCI. Froome is the Zoolander character who eventually erupts and rampages all over mountain top finishes.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I've been thinking about the whole "leveling the playing field" argument for years now, and have come up with my conclusion.

Doping doesn't level the playing field.

It FLATTENS it.

Pure sport (an ideal, but one I adhere to) should reveal the unique potential of gifted humans. That's the beautiful part of it. The human awesomeness of it!

Once the blood vector drugs got into it, everything changed. There weren't the few athletes who had a crit of 48, or the fewer that made the most of it, or the even fewer that didn't have that genetic gift but were smarter and tougher than the others and made their own winning opportunities.

Suddenly it was entire trains of previous flat-land domestiques driving it up climbs faster than previous winners went up them. And increased race speeds, not just for Classics but for the entire length of GTs. And TT performances that were ridiculous...

GTs got predictable and boring, and I haven't seen much change in this new "clean era" (which either starts in 2007, 2009, or 2012 depending on who you talk to). Even the Monuments lost some of their dicey pizzazz due to retardation of performances.

No more fliers, no more chance-taking (apart from guys risking more and more on descents), and a definitive reduction in the dice-roll that racing bikes should be.

Drugs don't level the playing field, they flatten it.

And that breaks my heart...

 

[Benotti69]

<snipped for brevity>

Doping doesn't level the playing field.

It FLATTENS it.

<snipped for brevity>

Drugs don't level the playing field, they flatten it.

And that breaks my heart...

Great post and not only does it break hearts it enrages......

 

[del1962]

Yeah, a bit. But mostly I think you have to go back and reread your post.

Chicken has no idea what *** climbing looks like? No time kicking *ss in the peloton? No accurate frame of reference? Absolutely no clue who may still be charging?

Seriously?

And don't think that you're the only chump with "endurance sports background" that shows up in the clinic. There's a lot more experience and wisdom here than you give credit to.

Really, go back and reread your post and tell me you're not trying to minimize what an experienced GT stomper, and an experienced doper, has to say about the current king.

Maybe you just like Sky's credibility...

Ask yourself why does Ras think that Froome is the greatest cyclist ever if clean?

From what I can recollect because he beat Lances time on AX-3, but the problem with this is it assumes that the two climbs are comparable. But Froome pretty much went flat out on the climb from the bottom, whereas Lance followed Ulrich and the pace dropped of such that Laiseki actually caught Ulrich and Armstrong, then Armstrong let him go, Armsrong didn't attack Ulrich until just over 1K to go.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Ask yourself why does Ras think that Froome is the greatest cyclist ever if clean?

Because Ras knows the peloton isn't that much better than in the Festina days.

I'm not particularly beholden to specific times, or wattages, or w/kg values on specific climbs as my metric of what clean is.

I'm looking at the gestalt.

Testing improved? At the most that's a "maybe".

Dirty guys out of the sport? Nope.

Same "omertic" PR and interviews? Yup.

Speeds still increasing? Yup.

Teams still spontaneously creating stars? Yup.

New drugs still being discovered? Yup.

New performances that match old "doped" performances? Yup.

The last one's a kicker. The sport's PR would have us believe that some sort of massive, world rocking, sea change happened in cycling. That never happened. It didn't happen after Festina, and it didn't happen after USPS.

They love to profess that some sort of huge generational change happened at some point. When? When was this paradigm shift in cycling? What was the impetus behind it, and how was it manifested?

Utter BS. No change has happened, and the *** performances of yesterday are no less *** than the new full *** performances of the current peloton.

Cookson needs to step up now, grab his beads, and do something grand...

 

[classicomano]

Absolutely. His current persona is the fault of his many fans, who decided to turn a marginally talented doofus domestique, whose claim to fame is idiotic breakaways that always fail, into some kind of hero.

Suddenly, he's Chuck Norris in lycra, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon, creating this cult of personality where there should not have been one.

There is nothing compelling about his riding style nor his personality. He's a lifelong jock. Riders like him aren't the most intellectually engaging people to interview, so it's no surprise his latest effort failed to please. It's because some of you expect way to much out of guys like Jens, and expect them to say what you want them to say instead of taking their opinions for what they are.

Excellent post sir, hit the nail right on the head. Just shut up and retire already.

 

[Benotti69]

Because Ras knows the peloton isn't that much better than in the Festina days.

I'm not particularly beholden to specific times, or wattages, or w/kg values on specific climbs as my metric of what clean is.

I'm looking at the gestalt.

Testing improved? At the most that's a "maybe".

Dirty guys out of the sport? Nope.

Same "omertic" PR and interviews? Yup.

Speeds still increasing? Yup.

Teams still spontaneously creating stars? Yup.

New drugs still being discovered? Yup.

New performances that match old "doped" performances? Yup.

The last one's a kicker. The sport's PR would have us believe that some sort of massive, world rocking, sea change happened in cycling. That never happened. It didn't happen after Festina, and it didn't happen after USPS.

They love to profess that some sort of huge generational change happened at some point. When? When was this paradigm shift in cycling? What was the impetus behind it, and how was it manifested?

Utter BS. No change has happened, and the *** performances of yesterday are no less *** than the new full *** performances of the current peloton.

Cookson needs to step up now, grab his beads, and do something grand...

The only thing that will make it change is a serious huge amount of money being put into an independent anti doping body. But we all know that aint going to happen.

 

[del1962]

Excellent post sir, hit the nail right on the head. Just shut up and retire already.

I expect Jens will end up working in English speaking TV, he already did some work for ITV (or was it Eurosport) during the Vuelta