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I still have a hard time believing that he would continue dealing after the FLandis hearing and the reports about him trafficking. That makes no sense. It would be like sticking your head in the jaws of a lion. You are just asking to have your head bitten off.
fatandfast said:
Yeah, that would be the way, way back of his ""What happened today has its origins in a very distant time and place, during a part of my life that long ago closed,”
Very distant, indeed. 2007. That was the year the Beatles split up, wasn't it? The year Gandhi got shot. Mahatma, not Indira or Rajiv? Or is my memory going?
2007? A bit too comtemporary to be "very distant time and place", don't you think. And where was that distant "place"? Neverland?
- Mar 11, 2009
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I suppose it's time to say something, as I believe I'm the only person here who actually knows Joe, (other than perhaps John or Laura). I can't speak for him, at all, but I can give my own words.
Where to begin?
Before passing judgment, I suggest, request, you be patient, and keep your eyes open in the time to come to see how this transgresses, what else is revealed, before just throwing him to the lions.
Joe Lindsay gets most of it right, but many of you are missing some key elements. First, you all should have done your homework here and known that it's been well publicized that ending around July, 2007 Joe sold Kayle Leogrande EPO for $500, and turned this evidence over to USADA (including photos). When the cards are all laid out I'm confident it will be shown he did more than that after this point in time to combat doping, and honestly was trying to put his dark past behind him. If you have followed his blogs and posts, I think you'll agree.
I can't defend Joe's selling PED's to other athletes, ever, regardless of when, or whatever the reason. I don't believe he would try to defend himself from do so, admits it was very wrong, and has to regret the whole mess.
The Andrew Tilin article in Outside Magazine is about 40% fiction. And no, not just the doping stuff. Much of that is true, sadly. But Joe doesn't have AK-47's in his house, and isn't a preening goody-goody with cologne on his nightstand or any of that nonsense. Tilin told the story he wanted to tell, and knew would sell.
Joe isn't rich. Not even close. That's completely laughable. But no, he doesn't need to sell drugs to earn a living. He's plenty intelligent, graduating summa cum laude from University of Pittsburgh, and was (at least until recently) working on his Master's degree.
The person he is, is the same guy that's posted on here, and posted on his blog and site. That Joe Papp, is Joe Papp. Yes this chapter of his difficult life sucks, but go back and read his posts, his writings over the last year. That is the real Joe.
Where to begin?
Before passing judgment, I suggest, request, you be patient, and keep your eyes open in the time to come to see how this transgresses, what else is revealed, before just throwing him to the lions.
Joe Lindsay gets most of it right, but many of you are missing some key elements. First, you all should have done your homework here and known that it's been well publicized that ending around July, 2007 Joe sold Kayle Leogrande EPO for $500, and turned this evidence over to USADA (including photos). When the cards are all laid out I'm confident it will be shown he did more than that after this point in time to combat doping, and honestly was trying to put his dark past behind him. If you have followed his blogs and posts, I think you'll agree.
I can't defend Joe's selling PED's to other athletes, ever, regardless of when, or whatever the reason. I don't believe he would try to defend himself from do so, admits it was very wrong, and has to regret the whole mess.
The Andrew Tilin article in Outside Magazine is about 40% fiction. And no, not just the doping stuff. Much of that is true, sadly. But Joe doesn't have AK-47's in his house, and isn't a preening goody-goody with cologne on his nightstand or any of that nonsense. Tilin told the story he wanted to tell, and knew would sell.
Joe isn't rich. Not even close. That's completely laughable. But no, he doesn't need to sell drugs to earn a living. He's plenty intelligent, graduating summa cum laude from University of Pittsburgh, and was (at least until recently) working on his Master's degree.
The person he is, is the same guy that's posted on here, and posted on his blog and site. That Joe Papp, is Joe Papp. Yes this chapter of his difficult life sucks, but go back and read his posts, his writings over the last year. That is the real Joe.
Alpe d'Huez said:
So basically we should trust him as not is all as it seems at the moment and he's doing a lot of good work "behind the scenes", as it were, but details of which can't be made known yet?
If that's what is being said, it does raise an intriguing possibility regarding the timing of Flandis's twitter melt-down. Or it could just be a coincidence.
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Not sure what you mean by saying you should trust him. That he's honest in saying he admitted to selling PEDs, but isn't doing so anymore, and hasn't since mid-2007 (the time of the Leogrande affair, which is public information).
Answer this question. Or just think about it. Let's pretend you're a cyclist looking to dope. You know that Joe helped Leogrande get EPO for $500, and then for whatever the reason, turned him, plus photographs of what appears to be more than $500 worth of EPO in his refrigerator, over to USADA so USADA could throw the book at Leogrande. Would you really be stupid enough to try to buy PEDs from such a person?
Elaborate on Flandis Twitter meltdown and coincidence, if you could.
Answer this question. Or just think about it. Let's pretend you're a cyclist looking to dope. You know that Joe helped Leogrande get EPO for $500, and then for whatever the reason, turned him, plus photographs of what appears to be more than $500 worth of EPO in his refrigerator, over to USADA so USADA could throw the book at Leogrande. Would you really be stupid enough to try to buy PEDs from such a person?
Elaborate on Flandis Twitter meltdown and coincidence, if you could.
Alpe d'Huez said:
Well, on the very day that it's announced Joe has pleaded guilty to dealing charges, Flandis goes into meltdown and launches a broadside at LNDD, USADA, McQuaid, Tygart and Joe. Why launch that at Joe now, yesterday of all days? Maybe Flandis thinks/knows that now Joe has admitted to that charge, he is to provide much more information on Flandis's doping history, that will place him in even more hot water?
Or maybe he is just cursing everyone who went against him two years ago?
I have no idea. It's just I would have thought Flandis would have many more people to curse at this point in time than Joe, that's all.
- Nov 2, 2009
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Hibbles said:
Quote:
****! **** LNDD **** USADA **** J.Papp **** P.McQuaid **** T.Tygart and **** You!
See link for the asterisked out bits:
http://www.velotweets.com/profiles/therealfloydl
Spare Tyre said:
that twitter account has gone..
as for joe, gonna stick by what i said last night, joe has always said there was more he couldnt talk about, just to wait and things would be clearer.. Im waiting, i think theres much much more to this than meets the eye..
*** and fan spring to mind..
dimspace said:
i think his account got hacked
they really need to do something about computer hackers
- May 6, 2009
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ravens said:
But it couldn't be Floyd, because in his Mennonite community the computer will not be invented for another 125 years.
I haz proof
- Sep 25, 2009
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in a nutshell, i view papps case simple.
most dopers made one step on the dark path, joe made two.
unlike most dopers joe stepped back far enough to cleanse himself and help us reflect on the big doping picture.
no, not a pretty light for joe. but if you are genuinely antidoping you need to appreciate him nonetheless.
most dopers made one step on the dark path, joe made two.
unlike most dopers joe stepped back far enough to cleanse himself and help us reflect on the big doping picture.
no, not a pretty light for joe. but if you are genuinely antidoping you need to appreciate him nonetheless.
dimspace said:
can't get tw@tter here, but do you mean the whole his account?
so no more illuminating posts about car wash life?
Papp is a user. That is why I brought Greg into it. Because Greg somehow trusts those he should not and gets used. Then Greg is angry. I feel Papp is the same kind of person who would use a person like Greg LeMond.
Once a person lies, uses PEDs they cross a line. Very few can repent.
My guess there is that Landis, his attorney and Papp feel no shame in cheating.
They only feel anger in being caught.
Once they are caught I do not trust them and I do not believe them. I believe them only to spew more lies.
Once a person lies, uses PEDs they cross a line. Very few can repent.
My guess there is that Landis, his attorney and Papp feel no shame in cheating.
They only feel anger in being caught.
Once they are caught I do not trust them and I do not believe them. I believe them only to spew more lies.
- Apr 2, 2009
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This is how it was reported in today's Gazzetta dello Sport:
The US anti-doping agency had listened to him as a witness against Floyd Landis in 2007: but now the 34 year old American ex-pro Joe Papp has admitted before a Pittsburgh federal court, that he had sold doping products via internet (including growth hormone) to more than 180 clients, among whom were cyclists and other athletes (though he didn't name names). Papp has also been disqualified 2 years for doping in 2006.
Sounds to me rather like a doping racket in Rome and Lazio that involved dozens of ciclo amatori racers and some B rank pros, which NAS in Italy cracked down upon in 2006. Several of my competitors were involved, a couple have been baned for life.
Nothing striking. However, not being a moralist and knowing the environment, I'm no more angry with Joe than I was toward the guys I raced against. Even more so becuase I don't know the guy, and I tend not to pass judgment on others' "sins" to harshly, when who knows someday if someone will come to know mine. And in any case, I've stopped being bothered within certain limits that have nothing to do with doping per se, but how certain big fish flaunt their achievements after having commited the same crimes without the consequences. And I emphasize Big Fish.
The environment is filthy, but so are so many other sectors of society. You come to an understanding and then decide what's you're approach to playing the game.
The US anti-doping agency had listened to him as a witness against Floyd Landis in 2007: but now the 34 year old American ex-pro Joe Papp has admitted before a Pittsburgh federal court, that he had sold doping products via internet (including growth hormone) to more than 180 clients, among whom were cyclists and other athletes (though he didn't name names). Papp has also been disqualified 2 years for doping in 2006.
Sounds to me rather like a doping racket in Rome and Lazio that involved dozens of ciclo amatori racers and some B rank pros, which NAS in Italy cracked down upon in 2006. Several of my competitors were involved, a couple have been baned for life.
Nothing striking. However, not being a moralist and knowing the environment, I'm no more angry with Joe than I was toward the guys I raced against. Even more so becuase I don't know the guy, and I tend not to pass judgment on others' "sins" to harshly, when who knows someday if someone will come to know mine. And in any case, I've stopped being bothered within certain limits that have nothing to do with doping per se, but how certain big fish flaunt their achievements after having commited the same crimes without the consequences. And I emphasize Big Fish.
The environment is filthy, but so are so many other sectors of society. You come to an understanding and then decide what's you're approach to playing the game.
Oncearunner8
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- Dec 10, 2009
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High Horse
There are so many High Horse comments posted in regards to Mr. Papp. In the end we are posting on a message board and the amount of information on this is thin in my opinion.
I have not quoted it but in a few posts previous someone alluded to him making money off doping in order to eat and not trying to get a real job. (I generalized a bit)
I KNOW for a FACT Joe tried to get a legit job because he contacted me directly regarding a position at the company I work for. He sent his resume and we exchanged emails. The Job did not come but I do know he was out beating the streets to get a job. So like I said, you can sit on the High Horse all you want but until we know or will ever know all the facts we are just left with some independent opinions.
I wish Joe Papp well and will not judge him.
There are so many High Horse comments posted in regards to Mr. Papp. In the end we are posting on a message board and the amount of information on this is thin in my opinion.
I have not quoted it but in a few posts previous someone alluded to him making money off doping in order to eat and not trying to get a real job. (I generalized a bit)
I KNOW for a FACT Joe tried to get a legit job because he contacted me directly regarding a position at the company I work for. He sent his resume and we exchanged emails. The Job did not come but I do know he was out beating the streets to get a job. So like I said, you can sit on the High Horse all you want but until we know or will ever know all the facts we are just left with some independent opinions.
I wish Joe Papp well and will not judge him.
Sorry pal. I am glad that Joe Papp has a degree. He is still a FELON just like Bernie Medoff.
When Joe fills out that job application how does selling illegal drugs over the internet sound?
Polish
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Should Joe Papp name names?
I understand many of the customers he sold HGH and EPO are anonymous. Hopefully Joe had a "you have to be 18yrs of age or older to order" rule.
But should Joe name the names of the customers he DOES know?
Would that be a "Stool Pigeon" or a "WhistleBlower"?
The one thing that Joe has going for him, in the clinic at least, is that he does not like lance or floyd. That will get him much foregiveness here. And foregiveness is a good thing.
I understand many of the customers he sold HGH and EPO are anonymous. Hopefully Joe had a "you have to be 18yrs of age or older to order" rule.
But should Joe name the names of the customers he DOES know?
Would that be a "Stool Pigeon" or a "WhistleBlower"?
The one thing that Joe has going for him, in the clinic at least, is that he does not like lance or floyd. That will get him much foregiveness here. And foregiveness is a good thing.
Oncearunner8
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