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Johann bruyneel as a DS.

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Jun 23, 2009
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L29205 said:
Could be. But what would happen if Astana didn't get a Pro-tour License, the team would be split and he would be hunting for a job. He wants to do things on his terms. Whether that is recruiting, managing the Peleton, or the riders on his teams. I personally think his switch to Radioshack is simply going to a team with secure sponsorship. The baggage for a US sponsored team is LA.

Back to the thread, great manager but very little support to being great with tactics. However, do you need to have great tactics if you are controlling the race day to day?

He is simply unjust. Everything is for Armstrong and other riders mean nothing to him. Armstrong had the best tires for his timetrialbike. Alberto Contador had to buy them with his own money. :mad:
 
Jul 4, 2009
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isayic said:
He is simply unjust. Everything is for Armstrong and other riders mean nothing to him. Armstrong had the best tires for his timetrialbike. Alberto Contador had to buy them with his own money. :mad:

Could you provide a link to the story detailing that? Google has failed me on finding info on this. Don't want to dispute you with out reading the information.
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Johann

Johann is dynamic, knows the numbers and hes Belgian. Whats not to like?
Never understood Hincapie and Basso though. Couple of juicers.
 

flicker

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Alberto had to buy his own tires? Wah!!!!

I also heard Lance had Albertos climbing bikes had been filled with Lead fishing weights. Done by Lances' munchkins. Maybe Vino can give Al a pair of TT wheels from the TTs he has won.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Beech Mtn said:

Thank you for the link. I would be interested in all sides of the story. I would find it hard to believe that a pro team did not have access to the full set of wheels that their sponsor provides. I would say that the best wheels may not be the sponsors wheels. There are many photos of Lance riding HED 3's instead of the Bontrager wheels from Trek for an example. I doubt Lance or whichever team he was with had to buy the HED wheels.
 
L29205 said:
Thank you for the link. I would be interested in all sides of the story. I would find it hard to believe that a pro team did not have access to the full set of wheels that their sponsor provides. I would say that the best wheels may not be the sponsors wheels. There are many photos of Lance riding HED 3's instead of the Bontrager wheels from Trek for an example. I doubt Lance or whichever team he was with had to buy the HED wheels.

The story has been out at least a week now--plenty of time for the hyperactive fingers of Lance or Bruyneel to knock it down. And HED is a wheel sponsor (or was) for Astana. And you are correct, Lance didn't have to buy any HED wheels, AC did.
 
flicker said:
I also heard Lance had Albertos climbing bikes had been filled with Lead fishing weights. Done by Lances' munchkins. Maybe Vino can give Al a pair of TT wheels from the TTs he has won.

There are now other sources out there, reporting the same, but I'm sure they would get treated with the same myopic contempt and ridicule.
You read it, but once again choose to disbelieve it.
Face up to the truth. Your idol and his DS mate are a pair of grifters.

If I find a link which reports the story in picture book format, I post it for you and Polish.:eek:

For now:
http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...09/11/20/ciclismo/1258724643.html&sl=es&tl=en

Or there's that satanic rag, L'Equipe, if you prefer.
 

flicker

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Duly noted. Without being nationally biased many leaders are" grifters". So to are many of their followers. AKA sheep.

Please be advised the last President, Vice President of the U.S. mate.

Same with cycling. By the way that goes for pro and amateur cycling, all countries.

I get my cycling info from the Plastic Peleton People.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Publicus said:
The story has been out at least a week now--plenty of time for the hyperactive fingers of Lance or Bruyneel to knock it down. And HED is a wheel sponsor (or was) for Astana. And you are correct, Lance didn't have to buy any HED wheels, AC did.

Not trying to get into a tit for tat type of thing here. But if you check HED's website, it states it supplies wheels for Astana. It does not say it sponsored Astana. If AC could not talk HED in to giving him the wheels for free that is his problem. However, there are many faster wheels out there than HED's or Bontrager's (the official sponsor). That is my point, if AC wanted the fastest and it was not a sponsor wheel or a wheel company giving away a wheel for exposure, I would expect that he had to pay for them. LA has enough exposure to have whomever give him the fastest gear. AC may not have. I don't think AC will ever have a problem getting whatever go fast toy ever again. The question is did Astana buy whatever LA wanted and denied AC the same access? I don't know and taking a quote from an AC interview is like trying to say the Hog was at the Giro based on information from his own website. It is one sided.
 
The bottom line for me regarding JB´s "genius" can be summed up with one question: Where would he be without LA? His greatest move by far was seeing LA´s potential for stage races. So to say he started with a low budget team.......economically that may be true, but that team had LA at the birth of his greatest potential. Guilding LA through La Vuelta, LA getting 4th and the rest is history. It never took genius or any other new or secret tactics to win with LA. Just a team devoted to him, protecting him and doing what all teams do for a leader and GC rider. Once JB had the 7 LA Tours behind him he could command any budget on any team he worked for and thus get the best riders. So I´d say he´s smart, cutthroat, a politician (we all know what that takes) a bully and clearly that worked well with LA in the past and will with Shack.......and that is a recipe for success.

To look for true tacticians in cycling there are quite a few who place high in team standings, win both classics and GT stages including GC wins and basically do very well with nothing close to the talent JB has had access to.

Bjarne Riis: started with little, but through smart recruiting and very smart tactics managed to win many one day races and many GT stages.....this long before getting a hold of the bros Schleck as well as the larger team budgets he now commands.

Cyrille Guimard: perhaps the all time greatest tactician, but also had the best riders so can be debated.

Current Cervelo DS team Alex Sans Vega, Jean-Paul Poppel, Jens Zemke: considering last year was their first, an amazing win record including 09 spring classics, Giro & Tour.

Finally when was the last time JB was in the car during a race? As I said as the begining: Where would JB be without LA?
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Typical....

Oh, how we missed the e-mob. So typical and expected. Thank you for being so dependable. Any reply past this would just add fire to your obsessions. Truely comical indeed.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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"We might as well win" is way too modest...

2005 is a good example of the Genius that is Bruyneel.

2 Grand Tours in the same year with Different Riders - very hard to orchestrate no doubt.

The 2005 Giro Team put in place by Bruyneel won the day for Paola, and then Paolo was a VERY faithful Lieutenant General on the winning team Bruyneel put in place for the 2005 Tour de France - Paolo finishing top 20 with a stage win too.

By the way, sitting in a car telling Il Falcon to "attack DiLuca on the downhill" or advising Paolo to "stay with Simoni on the climb like sticky Peruvian candy" are not examples of genius DS "tactics". Tactics on the road are the rider's responsibility.

But perhaps the greatest example of the 2005 GT Genius of Bruyneel is evidenced in the Vuelta Team he put in place that year....leader Tommy D actually FINISHED the race and a TOP 10 to boot. Holy crud!

Bravo Bruyneel - Grand Tour Maestro for the Ages
 

Polish

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Mellow Velo said:
Polish: Your ignorance is astounding. Only a fanboy could be so ill informed.

The DS for Discovery, at the 2005 Giro, was Sean Yates.

Bruyneel wasn't sitting in the car telling Savoldelli to do anything, but was probably lying on a beach, in Spain.


Mellow, that is why I said sitting in the car "are NOT examples of genius DS

Genius Moments occur laying in bed at night or lying on a beach somewhere.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Tangled Tango said:
Just a team devoted to him, protecting him and doing what all teams do for a leader and GC rider.

I don't think it's what all teams do for their leader. Some others brought up the budget issue, using the NY Yankees analogy.

Well, it ain't necessarily so.

There are big budget teams that don't get results... the Yankees hockey cousins the Rangers... big money, big names, not very successful since they won the Cup in 1994.

How about T-Mobile... big big money, big big talent... but they couldn't work together to beat USPS.

JB managed to get 9 guys to work together for a common goal and succeeded.

Lots of other DS's have had strong teams, big money and not had the results JB has had.
 

Polish

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Murray said:
Lots of other DS's have had strong teams, big money and not had the results JB has had.

Good point.

It will be interesting to see how Astana 2010 perform.

On paper, looking at the riders, they will be a stronger team than 2009.
Bigger budget too. Better bikes and Wheelsets. Fewer distractions.

Anyone think they wil miss Bruyneel?
 
Remember in 2006 Bruyneel wrote that soppy letter to cyclingnews? The one where he said no one respected what he & Lance did together. He went on to say that all the drug allagations were not only false but hurtful & that Lance was clean. OP broke two weeks later then we all knew about clean cyclists.

Bruyneel has won a bucket load of Tours as a DS but none clean bar with Alberto. It must be hard to sleep at night knowing the only rider who won clean under your direction thinks your a **** and didn't listen to a word you said.
 
jpmcmahonjr said:
Oh, how we missed the e-mob. So typical and expected. Thank you for being so dependable. Any reply past this would just add fire to your obsessions. Truely comical indeed.

Yeah thanks for checking in. Two posts in the past 2 1/2 weeks and that is all you can come up with?
Why don't you do everyone a favor and just not post until you have some sort of intelligent point to add, because I'm guessing that would be never.