Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[Ripper]

do we know what the w/kg is? it was doped for sure but it looked more like Pogacar bonked than anything. i would imagine both of them were below their level from last year.

TaPoPo definitely looked human at the end

 

[AmRacer]

TaPoPo definitely looked human at the end

Depends on who you compare with, J.

 

[Nick2413]

Let's say I'm a novice and you're the experts.

How is it possible to have these performances after two weeks in the ICU?

After that injury you can run a TDF but you can't push those EPO 90s alien watts.

the injuries of Bernal/Froome/Evenepoel were potentially fatal, this??? In two months he pushes alien watts???

I was just in the Basque Country and I can promise you the food out there has magical properties, whatever they were feeding them in the hospitals must have been even better than dope.

 

[shadowrider]

Idem Pogacar.

Maybe also Pogacar. But today, Pogacar was a bit fading during the last km. He also had two breakdowns (a huge one and a small one) during the Tour 22 and a huge breakdown in 23. So, that makes Pogacar a bit more human.
Vingegaard was defeated a few times in the past. But never decisive during the Tour. And after what he showed after his crash, with broken bones, a pneumothorax, intensive care, two weeks in hospital........ in that short time, is completely ridiculous.

 

[Vudy]

Maybe also Pogacar. But today, Pogacar was a bit fading during the last km. He also had two breakdowns (a huge one and a small one) during the Tour 22 and a huge breakdown in 23. So, that makes Pogacar a bit more human.
Vingegaard was defeated a few times in the past. But never decisive during the Tour. And after what he showed after his crash, with broken bones, a pneumothorax, intensive care, two weeks in hospital........ in that short time, is completely ridiculous.

At the Tour he's nigh unbeatable. I really thought some weakness would show itself this year but no, he's on fire again.

 

[awavey]

You might be correct about the bolded!

some of it was mind games obviously but if he was that on that kind of form I think we'd have heard pre tour, simply because I think at some point in the race he'd have to show it and you cant pretend it away by saying oh yeah he just rode into form.

It would be much more of a mental hit on UAE to for JV to say upfront yeah we are back, we are just as super strong as you, well except from WVA who seems to be still impacted by those injuries from the same race JV got injured in, but hey maybe his family just dont love him as much

 

[ppanther92]

Pogi being in top form all year round

Well, its also not like Vingegaard is pack fodder outside the Tour.

2022: 4 prep races, won 3 (only Paris-Nice not, losing to Pogi)
2023: 3 prep races, won 2 (cause he crashed at Itzulia as we all know)

So usually he also wins all the races he enters before July. He just doesn't fancy classics.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

At the Tour he's nigh unbeatable. I really thought some weakness would show itself this year but no, he's on fire again.

Let's wait till the end of the race to see if he has a bad day or not. If he wins the race this year (with rushed preparation) then he's virtually unbeatable in the Tour.

 

[Ripper]

Both jonas le robot and Tadej gianetti are as ridiculous as each other and have been since 2021

Love it! It's like Vampires versus Robots! Sort of like Underworld but for bike racing

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Love it! It's like Vampires versus Robots! Sort of like Underworld but for bike racing

To sum-up: x-men, meta(not)humans etc.

 

[solo80k]

At the Tour he's nigh unbeatable. I really thought some weakness would show itself this year but no, he's on fire again.

He's was vulnerable this year at least 2 times - on Galibier when Pogacar was able to get some gap, especially downhill. And he was on the ropes today, but UAE f*cked up carbs calculation apparently.

 

[Ripper]

no its the most valid observation made here. Why is he dressed like someone from arrested development? Is it possible to start a movement bring back the black shorts.

Yes. The all yellow is just painful

 

[Ripper]

The only hope is that he runs out of base conditioning a similar way as how Pogacar was exposed on Loze last year. Otherwise its very difficult to accept based upon anything known about athletic recovery after the injuries and training interruption he suffered.

@Cookster15 I agree with what you said about ViGoGo. One would think the lack of base miles (and hospital stay!) should have an impact. I don't agree with the lack of base for TaPoPo last year. The wrist injury should not have impacted his ability to put a lot of miles in his legs, even if that was on a trainer. This said, it would have impacted his ability to accelerate or climb out of the saddle.

 

[Ripper]

some of it was mind games obviously but if he was that on that kind of form I think we'd have heard pre tour, simply because I think at some point in the race he'd have to show it and you cant pretend it away by saying oh yeah he just rode into form.

It would be much more of a mental hit on UAE to for JV to say upfront yeah we are back, we are just as super strong as you, well except from WVA who seems to be still impacted by those injuries from the same race JV got injured in, but hey maybe his family just dont love him as much

WVA was injured in a different race, about a week ahead. Interestingly, based solely on the evidence we see in the news, Wout's recovery should have been easier. So it is a bit of a surprise that he is so much worse than Mr Robot

 

[Kazistuta]

some of it was mind games obviously but if he was that on that kind of form I think we'd have heard pre tour, simply because I think at some point in the race he'd have to show it and you cant pretend it away by saying oh yeah he just rode into form.

It would be much more of a mental hit on UAE to for JV to say upfront yeah we are back, we are just as super strong as you, well except from WVA who seems to be still impacted by those injuries from the same race JV got injured in, but hey maybe his family just dont love him as much

Van Aert and Vingegaard didn't get injured in the same race.... and WVA seems to be in some kind of decline overall, whereas Jonas is still improving (like Tadej) year by year.

I know this is the place where all the wildest theories take place, but instead of all that non-substantiated skeptisism, I'd like to see some serious and substantiated claims as to what's the reason behind JV's rapid recovery. Personally I didn't buy JLAB's excuses and shithousery the last month or so, as everything pointed towards Vingo participating in TDF.
Is there any doctors with ribs and lungs expertise, or do ppl just spill out layman thoughts?

 

[dennisdy]

Jonas is definitely inside Pogacar's head! How many times did Tadej look back when he was clearly in the lead?

 

[Froome]

I feel sorry for the people who don't believe in the miracle of Vingegaard.

 

[awavey]

Van Aert and Vingegaard didn't get injured in the same race.... and WVA seems to be in some kind of decline overall, whereas Jonas is still improving (like Tadej) year by year.

I know this is the place where all the wildest theories take place, but instead of all that non-substantiated skeptisism, I'd like to see some serious and substantiated claims as to what's the reason behind JV's rapid recovery. Personally I didn't buy JLAB's excuses and shithousery the last month or so, as everything pointed towards Vingo participating in TDF.
Is there any doctors with ribs and lungs expertise, or do ppl just spill out layman thoughts?

fair point I got my races mixed up with who was an wasnt wiped out in that crash , it was within a week or two though wasnt it ? like WVA has had as much recovery time as JV, and still looks half the rider he was still

 

[awavey]

WVA was injured in a different race, about a week ahead. Interestingly, based solely on the evidence we see in the news, Wout's recovery should have been easier. So it is a bit of a surprise that he is so much worse than Mr Robot

yep as I say fair point, sorry got that wrong, hold my hand up, I dont want to create more rumour/conjecture than there is already on this.

but Wout has had about the same amount of recovery time and yet still looks to be half the rider he was last year, or at any TdF so far.

 

[Froome]

The only hope is that he runs out of base conditioning a similar way as how Pogacar was exposed on Loze last year. Otherwise its very difficult to accept based upon anything known about athletic recovery after the injuries and training interruption he suffered.

I don’t believe in that. Like his coach said "durability is his biggest weapon".

He get's better with "hard miles".

 

[Samu Cuenca]

yep as I say fair point, sorry got that wrong, hold my hand up, I dont want to create more rumour/conjecture than there is already on this.

but Wout has had about the same amount of recovery time and yet still looks to be half the rider he was last year, or at any TdF so far.

Unlike Vingegaard, he wasn't scheduled to do the race prior to the crash and is also more focused on the Olympics, but we'll see if he will reach a higher level before the end of the Tour.

 

[ElDesordenado]

I don’t believe in that. Like his coach said "durability is his biggest weapon".

He get's better with "hard miles".

Maybe I'm wrong, but based on what we've seen so far, I think he'll blast Pogacar - and everone else - away on stage 19 and the final TT. That'll be the first time since Froome that someone's won three times in a row - and before that Lance, Indurain, and Merckx. When you add the hospital stay to that story, it's quite incredible

 

[Froome]

Maybe I'm wrong, but based on what we've seen so far, I think he'll blast Pogacar - and everone else - away on stage 19 and the final TT. That'll be the first time since Froome that someone's won three times in a row - and before that Lance, Indurain, and Merckx. When you add the hospital stay to that story, it's quite incredible

If he wins, it would be one of the best comebacks every, like Pantani in Alpe d'huez.

 

[cnort]

I feel sorry for the people who don't believe in the miracle of Vingegaard.

I think we should agree the definition of the miracle in the context of cycling. Is it:

a) a miracle is a performance that is inexplicable by natural physiology and gets attributed to supernatural talent

or

b) a miracle is a performance that is inexplicable by natural physiology and accepted doping practice and gets attributed to some combination of talent and unknown doping practice.

I think for the clinic it would have to explicitly acknowledge doping, but then calling it a miracle is clearly a backhanded compliment.

 

[Froome]

I think we should agree the definition of the miracle in the context of cycling. Is it:

a) a miracle is a performance that is inexplicable by natural physiology and gets attributed to supernatural talent

or

b) a miracle is a performance that is inexplicable by natural physiology and accepted doping practice and gets attributed to some combination of talent and unknown doping practice.

I think for the clinic it would have to explicitly acknowledge doping, but then calling it a miracle is clearly a backhanded compliment.

I already explained some time ago.

Vingegaard has a unbeliavable phisiology, and in the last months he was able to take a lot of interesting things, but whatever, i don't care, since everybody "is in the mix".

The sport is full of doping, not just in cycling.