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Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

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To be fair to Vingegaard, Pogačar attacks so much that he doesn't really get many chances when he also has to recover in-between. Also since he's often the only guy who can/tries to respond, he at least attacks all the riders who can't follow at all. And as we know from Pogi-free races, he has no problem with riding aggressively when he's confident in his own abilities.
But in the pre-Tour races he did this season, he was so far above the rest that those attacks were practically risk free. In the Tour, when there's risk, he's always super conservative, and he sticks to the plan (which has worked out great for him).
 
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Well okay, what do you want to say... you're free to post it here :)

I will get back to you on that.

But in the pre-Tour races he did this season, he was so far above the rest that those attacks were practically risk free. In the Tour, when there's risk, he's always super conservative, and he sticks to the plan (which has worked out great for him).

He did it in pre-Tour races last year, and he even attacked Pogačar in Paris-Nice, which then bit him in the butt.
 
Agreed. It's actually hard to think of two riders who are further apart than Vingegaard and Pantani. I remember Pantani as erratic; Vingegaard is completely the opposite. Pantani was also a solo artist, riding for a weak Mercatone Uno, whereas Vingegaard is a team player in a very strong Visma team. Pantani was the most explosive rider I've seen; Vingegaard is, in terms of conservative riding style and last year's TT dominance, more like a skeleton version of Indurain. They share those crazy w/kg numbers, but that's about it.
Pantani was more explosive than Pogi? Not trolling just asking because i dont know
 
But in the pre-Tour races he did this season, he was so far above the rest that those attacks were practically risk free. In the Tour, when there's risk, he's always super conservative, and he sticks to the plan (which has worked out great for him).
And if the plan states that Vingegaard is supposed to attack on Tourmalet way out or at the bottom of Galibier, he‘ll stick to the plan. Difference to Pog is only really that Pog actively wants the plan to be to attack, so they make a plan which he likes, whilst Vingegaard just seems to be Grischa Niermann‘s way of executing his brilliant Pro Cycling Manager strategies. It‘s all a bit unfair to Vingegaard to blame him for sticking to the plan when it‘s mainly Pogačar‘s insane mindset that makes him look defensive.
 
But in the pre-Tour races he did this season, he was so far above the rest that those attacks were practically risk free. In the Tour, when there's risk, he's always super conservative, and he sticks to the plan (which has worked out great for him).
I think it's a bit unfair to use this Tour as evidence of anything, since he came into this race with a lot of questions and, no matter what Pogacar says, very much not in his best shape ever. So far he's mainly been in survival mode.

Last year he attacked the race on the very first opportunity. And the day after. But people forget quickly.
 
No. Pantani was like Vingegaard in Pertus, just put an insane pace that no one can follow
Really? I remember Pantani as super explosive, very different from Vingegaard who is much more of a steady rider (obviously at a super high pace).

Vingegaard really is a type I don't think I've seen before. He's as skinny - or skinnier - as Michael Rasmussen, but a far superior time trialist; Indurain or Ullrich level. Like those two, he has little to no explosiveness, so that separates him from e.g. Pantani (as I recall him), Armstrong, and Contador. He seems to have little ego and, according to what I've read, thrives under very specific coaching instructions without much personal interpretation - similar to the way that he races. And then, despite the dominance, there's something slightly nervous about him, which reminds me a little of Froome and is a stark contrast to e.g. Armstrong. Finally, there's that quiet, soft spoken family father demeanour which I think was also a characteristic of Indurain - he's not someone who makes enemies or stirs a lot or controversy (apart from the fact that many outside the peloton find his performances hard to believe).
 
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Really? I remember Pantani as super explosive, very different from Vingegaard who is much more of a steady rider (obviously at a super high pace).

Vingegaard really is a type I don't think I've seen before. He's as skinny - or skinnier - as Michael Rasmussen, but a far superior time trialist; Indurain or Ullrich level. Like those two, he has little to no explosiveness, so that separates him from e.g. Pantani (as I recall him), Armstrong, and Contador. He seems to have little ego and, according to what I've read, thrives under very specific coaching instructions without much personal interpretation - similar to the way that he races. And then, despite the dominance, there's something slightly nervous about him, which reminds me a little of Froome and is a stark contrast to e.g. Armstrong. Finally, there's that quiet, soft spoken family father demeanour which I think was also a characteristic of Indurain - he's not someone who makes enemies or stirs a lot or controversy (apart from the fact that many outside the peloton find his performances hard to believe).
Saying Jonas is not explosive is simply ridiculous.
 
I think it's a bit unfair to use this Tour as evidence of anything, since he came into this race with a lot of questions and, no matter what Pogacar says, very much not in his best shape ever. So far he's mainly been in survival mode.

Last year he attacked the race on the very first opportunity. And the day after. But people forget quickly.


it's been obvious from the start JV is in the same shape as 22/23. pogacar is miles better than the rest of the field and you don't climb back up to him without being in top shape. over the weekend i expect him to take at least a couple of minutes out of TP

whatever happened to him back in april has clearly not hindered his chances at all
 
it's been obvious from the start JV is in the same shape as 22/23. pogacar is miles better than the rest of the field and you don't climb back up to him without being in top shape. over the weekend i expect him to take at least a couple of minutes out of TP

whatever happened to him back in april has clearly not hindered his chances at all
That remains to be seen. Even his trainer has no idea how he will respond to multiple mountain stages in a row.

What you can see with your own eyes is that he lacks a bit of muscle mass. This is not the same Vingegaard as the two years before. Could still be good enough, who knows.
 
it's been obvious from the start JV is in the same shape as 22/23. pogacar is miles better than the rest of the field and you don't climb back up to him without being in top shape. over the weekend i expect him to take at least a couple of minutes out of TP

whatever happened to him back in april has clearly not hindered his chances at all
If you think what he has showed so far is his best, you will lose your *** once he gets good.
 
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it's been obvious from the start JV is in the same shape as 22/23. pogacar is miles better than the rest of the field and you don't climb back up to him without being in top shape. over the weekend i expect him to take at least a couple of minutes out of TP

whatever happened to him back in april has clearly not hindered his chances at all
Let's us not get carried away here. I remember last year at the Tour all the talk on the 2nd rest day was how good Pogacar was and how hard it was for Vingegaard. We all know how it ended.
 
Let's us not get carried away here. I remember last year at the Tour all the talk on the 2nd rest day was how good Pogacar was and how hard it was for Vingegaard. We all know how it ended.


the early talk here has been the same - JV recovering, not yet at his best, etc etc. Pogacar has thrown everything at him for nearly two weeks and he's got nowhere other than probably exhausted himself.

JV is going to crush Pogacar from here. No doubt we'll hear "oh Jonas has ridden himself into form" but the truth is he was in great shape right from the start - we saw that on the first climb when Pog attacked and JV rode back up to him.
 
the early talk here has been the same - JV recovering, not yet at his best, etc etc. Pogacar has thrown everything at him for nearly two weeks and he's got nowhere other than probably exhausted himself.

JV is going to crush Pogacar from here. No doubt we'll hear "oh Jonas has ridden himself into form" but the truth is he was in great shape right from the start - we saw that on the first climb when Pog attacked and JV rode back up to him.
Obviously Vingo wasn't in bad shape at the start. But from what I've seen so far I'm not convinced he's in similar shape as last year. You can certainly see it on the descents and on the flats. Normally he's not a bad descender, no worse than Pogacar, but now he just lacks some pure power. Confidence as well, but also power.
 
It seems more likely at the moment, for Vingegaard to win, that Pogacar needs to bonk badly rather then Vingegaard attacking. That's what happened in 22 & 23. I'm guessing that's Visma's plan too.


only time we've seen Pog bonk in the Tour was Courcheval last year. JV has consistently shown himself better than TP in the high mountains and we're going to see that again - and it doesn't need TP to bonk for that to happen.
 
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You know what's funny. Last year people/experts were saying that because of his injury Pogacar won't be at his best and the lack of proper preparation will hurt him as the race progresses. Now these same people are saying that Jonas (who had a much harsher injury) and his lack of preparation would only help him and he will become even stronger.


all part of the "miracle" narrative. so far the stages have not played to JV's strengths and yet he's matched the best riders in the world in all of them. he was in top shape right from day one and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
 

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