Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[topcat]

So who wants to tell me again Pogacar did a great ITT in Combloux?

Me

 

[SHAD0W93]

Don't compare a injury in the wrist with these injuries.

Vingegaard didn’t have an injury last year yet still rode like this.

 

[Cookster15]

It's quite normal after what happened some months ago.

Some people are claiming Vingegaard was devastated after today. Tell me that isn't true after how he performed and what he has come back from? He should be very pleased with his performance.

 

[Froome]

Vingegaard didn’t have an injury last year yet still rode like this.

You can't compare the perfomances from the previous year to this year. If Remco did the perfomances this year in the Tour 2023, he would have won the Tour 2023. Obviously Vingegaard couldn't achieve a better peak because of what happened in April.

It doesn't mean that can't take away what Pogacar and his team achieved. They surpassed Visma this year in the most nevralgic areas, doping programme, equipment, organization, plus the fact everything went perfect without bad luck to Pogacar and Emirates, the opposite of the competition.

Next year, the opposite can happen very easily.

 

[Froome]

Some people are claiming Vingegaard was devastated after today. Tell me that isn't true after how he performed and what he has come back from? He should be very pleased with his performance.

It was a miracle what he achieved. I really doubt some rider in the world could achieve what he achieved in this Tour in terms of shape after what happened in April. Simply, Pogacar could achieve a better level than last year, everything went perfect for him.

 

[SHAD0W93]

You can't compare the perfomances from the previous year to this year. If Remco did the perfomances this year in the Tour 2023, he would have won the Tour 2023. Obviously Vingegaard couldn't achieve a better peak because of what happened in April.

It doesn't mean that can't take away what Pogacar and his team achieved. They surpassed Visma this year in the most nevralgic areas, doping programme, equipment, organization, plus the fact everything went perfect without bad luck to Pogacar and Emirates, the opposite of the competition.

Next year, the opposite can happen very easily.

I’m not comparing performances, you are now. I’m comparing what the original post was talking about, Vingegaard’s riding style. Which is what it sounded like you were talking about at first. The riding style is the same as last year even though he didn’t have an injury last year.

 

[Froome]

I’m not comparing performances, you are now. I’m comparing what the original post was talking about, Vingegaard’s riding style. Which is what it sounded like you were talking about at first. The riding style is the same as last year even though he didn’t have an injury last year.

What you mean by riding style?

 

[SHAD0W93]

What you mean by riding style?

But does anyone else think he looks like a frog when riding? Legs bouncing out to the sides. Same thing last year in his alien TT. He rides super fast, but it's almost as if his legs can't keep up. For all the talk about aerodynamics, he looks pretty uncoordinated to me ...

I haven’t seen this TT yet but what’s described in the same thing as last year. That’s Vingegaard’s riding style.

 

[Froome]

I haven’t seen this TT yet but what’s described in the same thing as last year. That’s Vingegaard’s riding style.

Maybe, but the power is not there, and that is more important.

 

[Cookster15]

It was a miracle what he achieved. I really doubt some rider in the world could achieve what he achieved in this Tour in terms of shape after what happened in April. Simply, Pogacar could achieve a better level than last year, everything went perfect for him.

Yes but tbh, Vingegaard's performance is at least as suspect than even Pogacar's thermonuclear level knowing what Vingo has come back from just three months ago.

But IMO the arrogance and sour grapes displayed by both Richard Plugge and Merijn Zeeman during this tour suggest they were confident they had Pogacar's measure despite what happened in April. I actually have more sympathy for Jonas that he can perform riding for such people.

 

[Froome]

Yes but tbh, Vingegaard's performance is at least as suspect than even Pogacar's thermonuclear level knowing what Vingo has come back from just three months ago.

But IMO the arrogance and sour grapes displayed by both Richard Plugge and Merijn Zeeman during this tour suggest they were confident they had Pogacar's measure despite what happened in April. I actually have more sympathy for Jonas that he can perform riding for such people.

I never said Visma is clean.

In terms of arrogance, your vision it depends what rider/team you support. Sometimes we are more "blind" to those we support. There was a lot of arrogant statements by pogacar, remco, UAE, not just Visma.

 

[snipeheem]

I never said Visma is clean.

In terms of arrogance, it depends what rider/team you support. There was a lot of arrogant statements by pogacar, remco, UAE, not just Visma.

Visma arrogance is on another level

 

[Cookster15]

I never said Visma is clean.

In terms of arrogance, your vision it depends what rider/team you support. Sometimes we are more "blind" to those we support. There was a lot of arrogant statements by pogacar, remco, UAE, not just Visma.

The arrogance is why I don't like Visma. I am not nationally attached to Pogacar and don't sense arrogance from UAE although Gianetti obviously has his haters here.

Visma clearly believed they had it all worked out despite Gianetti and knew Pogacar's watts and recovery. Nobody knows this and on PdB Visma got spooned and then again on Isola 2000. I thought we learned after Sky circa 2012 that cycling cannot be controlled like an algorithm.

 

[Salvarani]

It is crazy that despite the crash, he thought he would win. Him and the team expected him to do it!

If that is not the most outrageous thing in all of this, I dont know what is.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Not sure what kind of fuel does UAE have but VLAB has it as well. PdB was a monster watt bomb by Vingo. It was absolutely incredible considering his rushed preparations. That's why I think next year the arms race may escalate even further.

 

[Salvarani]

Biggest doper in history. Word to Comblaux.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I think the thread title is not true anymore, although we don‘t know what Vingegaard could do without a lung injury.

 

[Salvarani]

I think the thread title is not true anymore, although we don‘t know what Vingegaard could do without a lung injury.

He is Lazarus or Jesus.

He is Holy.

Running on something Godlike.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I think the thread title is not true anymore, although we don‘t know what Vingegaard could do without a lung injury.

But is he now the old alpha mutant, or the new beta mutant?

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

But is he now the old alpha mutant, or the new beta mutant?

I don't know but whoever came up with this Alpha, Beta, whatever classification should be shot. And I don't mean the guy who debunked his own theory about wolfs.

 

[Netserk]

I think the thread title is not true anymore, although we don‘t know what Vingegaard could do without a lung injury.

More fitting title now?

 

[awavey]

It is crazy that despite the crash, he thought he would win. Him and the team expected him to do it!

If that is not the most outrageous thing in all of this, I dont know what is.

it was funny listening to the commentators excuse Wouts poor race on his recovery from his injuries, whilst the exact same commentators didnt have any issue with Vingos recovery, surely they can see the disparity ?


and whether this was press quotes after the podium or what but Jonas has said in his congrats to Tadej for winning, for the first two weeks he had the "highest level I have been on ever. He was still just better "

which I presume he means numbers, though frankly it could be anything. but ok wow, so not only does he comeback fit as a fiddle from his life threatning crash, he was on the highest level he believes he has ever been, so even stronger than last year.

 

[ElDesordenado]

It is crazy that despite the crash, he thought he would win. Him and the team expected him to do it!

If that is not the most outrageous thing in all of this, I dont know what is.

Yeah, Vingegaard looked super disappointed after the TT today. I think you're right that he/Visma really thought he could win - and that things would turn around for him with the grand attack on stage 15.

Personally, I was surprised to see that he couldn't follow Pogacar. After seeing how well he did in the first half of the race, I thought he'd crush him as usual in the final week. But I underestimated the level of the new Pogacar. And maybe Visma did too.

 

[awavey]

Yeah, Vingegaard looked super disappointed after the TT today. I think you're right that he/Visma really thought he could win - and that things would turn around for him with the grand attack on stage 15.

he looked surprised really didnt he, that first glance the camera got after Pog finished wasnt one of sort of a rider who kind of was already beaten in the race at least, and finishing 2nd was an amazing result he could be proud of, it was really a did you just say he beat me by a minute look, and then that emotionless mask descended again. I thought that was interesting reaction

 

[Monoxidator]

he looked surprised really didnt he, that first glance the camera got after Pog finished wasnt one of sort of a rider who kind of was already beaten in the race at least, and finishing 2nd was an amazing result he could be proud of, it was really a did you just say he beat me by a minute look, and then that emotionless mask descended again. I thought that was interesting reaction

Phil Leggett would say something about how proud everyone could feel to finish only 25 minutes or more down on the top performers from the doping teams.