Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[red_flanders]

Be patient, i.e. the Vingegaard show is just getting started. This is the 2023 equivalent of Froome's 2013, except with much higher wattage because 'modern cycling' reasons. Maybe it's the evolutionary process Brailsford once mentioned, i.e. humans are getting stronger!

Vingegaard has plenty of time to say dumb stuff & screw his own nascent image as a cycling champ. For example Jumbo Visma didn't react well at all last year when some journalists asked dope related questions at the end of the Tour (WvA in particular got mad).

Froome was waist deep in it by the middle of the 2011 Vuelta. Froome and Sky were next level nonsense, I doubt we'll see the likes of it again.

 

[topt]

what can you say; we got a new Armstrong; Pog has no chance

 

[Andy schleck]

Only challenge left is the Joux Plane record.

"Pantani, i'm coming for you."

 

[Andy schleck]

I recently watched a documentary about the 1999 Giro & Vingegaard absolutely reminds me of Pantani.

It's the ease with which he just drops everyone on the climbs when he gets going. I didn't want to believe tbh after last year but it's true, all of it, i.e. Jumbo have created the ultimate mutant. I don't look at numbers as the ultimate gauge either, i.e. like in athletics, it's the gap versus the rest which matters. Race conditions change but when one guy makes the rest look like second tier GC riders, then yeah it's Pantani-esque.

And it's just the beginning as well. The gap at the end of the Tour could be pretty big I think.

It's very simple.

Pogacar is the T-Rex, but Jumbo created a Indominus Rex.

 

[Andy schleck]

So 1868 m/h of VAM for 23 minutes, superb but not as scary as I thought.

I think is 6.6 w/kg. It's a lot.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think is 6.6 w/kg. It's a lot.

Comparable to Pogacar's Peyresourde in 2020. 25 m/h faster but slightly shorter, 0.5% steeper and 500 m lower. The pacing on Peyresourde was stronger in the first part though.

 

[Rackham]

It's very simple.

Pogacar is the T-Rex, but Jumbo created a Indominus Rex.

I've been stuck on Terminator references for a while, like Rog is the T-800 (Schwarzy, aka old but not obsolete), Pog is the T-1000 (liquid metal) & Vingegaard is John Connor... in Terminator Genisys. Aka once he'd been spliced with Skynet. I mean he started out as a pretty cool dude in the Vuelta 2020 & Itzulia 2021... but has since turned into an unstoppable cyborg who barely even looks human anymore.

Unless someone can come up with a better explanation, I think that pretty much explains what we're seeing.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I've been stuck on Terminator references for a while, like Rog is the T-800 (Schwarzy, aka old but not obsolete), Pog is the T-1000 (liquid metal) & Vingegaard is John Connor... in Terminator Genisys. Aka once he'd been spliced with Skynet. I mean he started out as a pretty cool dude in the Vuelta 2020 & Itzulia 2021... but has since turned into an unstoppable cyborg who barely even looks human anymore.

Unless someone can come up with a better explanation, I think that pretty much explains what we're seeing.

Does that make Remco the blonde from T3?

 

[SHAD0W93]

It's very simple.

Pogacar is the T-Rex, but Jumbo created a Indominus Rex.

T-Rex killed the I-Rex though.

 

[Andy schleck]

T-Rex killed the I-Rex though.

With help.

 

[SHAD0W93]

With help.

True and I-Rex did start out pretty strong. Vinge has definitely upped his game. Just looking at him on the bike reminds me of terminator.

 

[BullsFan22]

After Pogačar’s exploits in 2021, I’d never think I’d see him struggle to win, at least not for a couple seasons, yet the Danish mutant has done this for two straight seasons at the tour. If this continues, we could see a lobsided win.

 

[FroomeWagon]

Supernatural!

 

[MrNovember]

The White Walker.
Or
Great white hope.


















Or,
Snow white.

 

[hrotha]

Worst day in pastronef's life - Vingegaard wins AND his Clinic thread actually explodes

 

[Pantani_lives]

There's something fishy going on...

 

[Reemster]

This guy is so dedicated, apparently he even goes for rides in the middle of the night!

 

[Kwibus]

I don't know guys. I know a lot of people still think cycling is filled with doping, but I actually don't believe it.

Last year a journalist (Nando Boers) followed the team for the entire year. Joined every meeting they had (4 hour meetings etc). He was in the team pretty much all the time even when in the TdF when Amazon and Netflix weren't around. The team at a few times did ask him to keep certain things out of his book, but that was mostly personal stuff that the writer didn't find interesting and part of the book. He's not a dramawriter, but a proper sportsjournalist.

Ofcourse all the hardcore Clinic people will say that this journalist is simply bribed etc. So it doesn't matter what I'm saying anyways.

I will never put my hand in the fire and say they are clean. That would be dumb, but I really don't believe there is systematic hardcore doping in cycling at this moment.
What I do know is that 10-15 years ago cycling was an incredibly backward sport and has made giant leaps with regard to knowledge/science over the last decade and Jumbo certainly seems to be ahead of most teams. I mean UAE last year said that they had to up their game regarding food etc. How is it even possible that nutrition isn't at the peak level at all teams? This is something that only Jumbo seems to have at absolute toplevel. Dutch riders that moved away from Jumbo or joined them all confirm this.
Not too mention the French teams who still seem to live in the 80s.... When Terpstra joined Directenergies they still had normal lemonade in their bottles and Sinkeldams story about his training camp with Demare where they were eating loads of Nutella and were gaining weight during the trainingcamp is another hilarious example.

Nando Boers said that the demand from teammanagement from their riders is very high and not every riders is able to commit to this, (Dumoulin) while other riders thrive at it (Vinge, van Aert and Roglic).

Roglic is seen as part of the turning point of the team because he is extremely professional. He directly showed this when he joined the team. Again someone from outside cycling who apparently came from a more professional approach than most cycling teams have which still baffles me.


Anyways a too long random rant which is pointless anyways in the Clinic.

Have a nice day

 

[Rackham]

I mean UAE last year said that they had to up their game regarding food etc. How is it even possible that nutrition isn't at the peak level at all teams? This is something that only Jumbo seems to have at absolute toplevel.

I mean, that's just UAE saying things, i.e. pro cycling teams say a lot of things. Taking a giant pinch of salt is usually advised with regards to the explanations they give regarding the how & why of their performance levels.

Vaunting the technology & professionalism angle isn't new in sport. The Soviet era Olympic champions were all mega scientifically enhanced super athletes, for example (i.e. the propaganda said they had best training regimens & best use of science in their era). Tampering with blood has always been key in pro sports & I think it's so ingrained in cycling (& sport in general) that these people genuinely do not even think it's "doping" per se. It's just 'normal' according to their little bubble.

And it's not like it benefits everyone equally, i.e. for some reason a rider like Tobias Foss (who won the Tour de l'Avenir) hasn't evolved into a GT rider whilst Vingegaard (who never did much at youth level) has become the best climber in pro cycling.

 

[pastronef]

Worst day in pastronef's life - Vingegaard wins AND his Clinic thread actually explodes

nah, but as some poster said a few hours ago, it's starting. finally. about time

 

[Netserk]

I don't know guys. I know a lot of people still think cycling is filled with doping, but I actually don't believe it.

Last year a journalist (Nando Boers) followed the team for the entire year. Joined every meeting they had (4 hour meetings etc). He was in the team pretty much all the time even when in the TdF when Amazon and Netflix weren't around. The team at a few times did ask him to keep certain things out of his book, but that was mostly personal stuff that the writer didn't find interesting and part of the book. He's not a dramawriter, but a proper sportsjournalist.

Ofcourse all the hardcore Clinic people will say that this journalist is simply bribed etc. So it doesn't matter what I'm saying anyways.

I will never put my hand in the fire and say they are clean. That would be dumb, but I really don't believe there is systematic hardcore doping in cycling at this moment.
What I do know is that 10-15 years ago cycling was an incredibly backward sport and has made giant leaps with regard to knowledge/science over the last decade and Jumbo certainly seems to be ahead of most teams. I mean UAE last year said that they had to up their game regarding food etc. How is it even possible that nutrition isn't at the peak level at all teams? This is something that only Jumbo seems to have at absolute toplevel. Dutch riders that moved away from Jumbo or joined them all confirm this.
Not too mention the French teams who still seem to live in the 80s.... When Terpstra joined Directenergies they still had normal lemonade in their bottles and Sinkeldams story about his training camp with Demare where they were eating loads of Nutella and were gaining weight during the trainingcamp is another hilarious example.

Nando Boers said that the demand from teammanagement from their riders is very high and not every riders is able to commit to this, (Dumoulin) while other riders thrive at it (Vinge, van Aert and Roglic).

Roglic is seen as part of the turning point of the team because he is extremely professional. He directly showed this when he joined the team. Again someone from outside cycling who apparently came from a more professional approach than most cycling teams have which still baffles me.


Anyways a too long random rant which is pointless anyways in the Clinic.

Have a nice day

You could have written the same about CSC. It contains truths, but what it's missing is the relevant stuff. Think of professionalism and scientific mindset as compliments to doping, not substitutes.

Small improvements are plausible, huge speeds are not. We are witnessing the 2nd greatest acceleration of the peloton, after the early 90's in first.

 

[ashhutch1997]

If Vingegaard and Jumbo keep taking the p*ss, I can see there being a big police raid like 1998/06.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Is there anybody who knows the bike technology well enough (or knows some scientific articles) to tell us how much modern bikes help compared to 20-25 years ago? Recently we've seen some outrageous estimations for lower speeds that basically meant that today's 6.5 w/kg uphill is equivalent to 6.1 w/kg from 20 years ago. I can't believe them TBH.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Is there anybody who knows the bike technology well enough (or knows some scientific articles) to tell us how much modern bikes help compared to 20-25 years ago? Recently we've seen some outrageous estimations that basically meant that today's 6.5 w/kg is equivalent 6.1 w/kg from 20 years ago. I can't believe them TBH.

The bikes now are heavier and slower than 10/15 years ago.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The bikes now are heavier and slower than 10/15 years ago.

It's pretty obvious our heroes are much faster than those 10 years ago but I'm asking about bikes from 20-25 years ago to compare to superheroes era.