Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Vingegaard isn’t doing altitude training beforehand. I don’t expect him to outshine the rest of the riders as he would do in TDF form. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets dropped, and doesn’t finish in the top 3.

Yep. Matter of fact he's planning on staying in Denmark for a while, if I understand him correctly.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO9r2md5EUU


Vingegaard hasn't spoken to Roglic yet.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

They're natural. He's always had them.

Wow did not realize. I thought he was just very particular about it.

 

[BigCoward]

Odds currently have Roglic and RE as slight favourites above Ayuso, where do people think he sits (obviously we don't know how he backs up but his 3rd week recovery bodes well)?

 

[Andy schleck]

Vingegaard isn’t doing altitude training beforehand. I don’t expect him to outshine the rest of the riders as he would do in TDF form. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets dropped, and doesn’t finish in the top 3.

Are you sure? He can go to altitude next week.

 

[Berniece]

Are you sure? He can go to altitude next week.

He can, but he won’t. Comes straight from his own mouth.

 

[tobydawq]

while Pog is more like Sagan

Except that Pogacar is actually likeable.

Sagan was popular because of his manner as a rider and because he did funny things. But in interviews he was not likeable at all even if by many acounts from former teammates, he was a nice guy to be around.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Funny thing, commentators and the likes loved his interviews because they were 'different'. Even though he didn't say jack. And Im 100% sure he was nice to be around as a teammate, but riding against him in hectic moments and sprints wouldn't have been nice. He did what he wanted, and sometimes that had casualties.

Compared to Valverde for example, he obviously had all his doping and stuff, but he was very well liked and respected in the peloton. Sagan really wasn't, at least that's the things I have heard.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Also wtf is Jumbo gonna send to Spain?

Jonas, Primoz, Kuss, Valter, Van Baarle.. then what? No matter what thats super scary already. I assume Kruijswijk is ready, and then a couple of rouleurs. Maybe Dennis for the TTT and flat/hilly terrain.

 

[tobydawq]

Funny thing, commentators and the likes loved his interviews because they were 'different'. Even though he didn't say jack. And Im 100% sure he was nice to be around as a teammate, but riding against him in hectic moments and sprints wouldn't have been nice. He did what he wanted, and sometimes that had casualties.

Compared to Valverde for example, he obviously had all his doping and stuff, but he was very well liked and respected in the peloton. Sagan really wasn't, at least that's the things I have heard.

I think some people exaggerate that a bit. For example, Brian Holm never liked him and because he has to talk non-stop for ever and ever, he obviously tells some of his imagined bed-time stories about Sagan and presenting him as much worse as he was. Also, he is of course close friends with Cavendish and after what happened in 2017 where Cavendish put all the blame on Sagan because he refused to believe the elbow move was a result of his handlebar hitting Sagan's underarm, the animosity only became greater.

But yeah, I don't think he will be sorely missed when he leaves the peloton. Not by anyone, really.

 

[Red Rick]

Also wtf is Jumbo gonna send to Spain?

Jonas, Primoz, Kuss, Valter, Van Baarle.. then what? No matter what thats super scary already. I assume Kruijswijk is ready, and then a couple of rouleurs. Maybe Dennis for the TTT and flat/hilly terrain.

Dennis IIRC wasn't scheduled to do any GT this year and was only called up as emergency backup.

Tratnik should probably be in.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yeah Tratnik should be a certainty. Great rider.

They will once again be so much stronger than every team outside of UAE probably..

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Odds currently have Roglic and RE as slight favourites above Ayuso, where do people think he sits (obviously we don't know how he backs up but his 3rd week recovery bodes well)?

Does this reflect the JV announcement? I don’t gamble so don’t know where to look. I would have guessed:

1. Vingegaard
2. Evenepoel
3. Roglic
4. Ayuso

But I personally would say:

1. Roglic
2. Vingegaard
3. Evenepoel
4. Ayuso

My reasoning:
I think Roglic will be hyper motivated, the Vuelta suits him, and I think he should be closer to peak form than Vingegaard. However, I think there is a real chance Vingegaard smashes Angliru so I have him second. Remco third because he has more confused priorities and this doesn’t (on paper) *** him as well. Ayuso hasn’t shown enough to rate higher but we could be in for a 2020 Pogi leap forward.

 

[theyoungest]

Vingegaard isn’t doing altitude training beforehand. I don’t expect him to outshine the rest of the riders as he would do in TDF form. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets dropped, and doesn’t finish in the top 3.

I can understand as an Evenepoel fan you're holding on to the idea that Vingegaard can't perform outside of races he doesn't peak for, but I suggest you watch some of the Itzulia stages this year. He was by far the strongest. And I mean by far.

 

[Andy schleck]

He can, but he won’t. Comes straight from his own mouth.

I think he said that he doesn't is sure yet if he is going to altitude or not, but yeah, probably he will be in the vuelta to help roglic.

 

[Berniece]

I can understand as an Evenepoel fan you're holding on to the idea that Vingegaard can't perform outside of races he doesn't peak for, but I suggest you watch some of the Itzulia stages this year. He was by far the strongest. And I mean by far.

Full disclosures I didn’t watch the race this year. Looking at the results the dominance of Vingegaard only appeared in the last stage, and on top of that his biggest competitor was Landa. Looking at the final GC I don’t really see a lot of competition that is comparable to the likes of Thomas, Ayuso, Roglic and Evenepoel. So how is that comparable?

 

[Rackham]

Full disclosures I didn’t watch the race this year. Looking at the results the dominance of Vingegaard only appeared in the last stage, and on top of that his biggest competitor was Landa. Looking at the final GC I don’t really see a lot of competition that is comparable to the likes of Thomas, Ayuso, Roglic and Evenepoel. So how is that comparable?

Vingegaard's superiority in Itzulia was similar to the superiority Roglič & Evenepoel displayed in Catalunya. These riders (big six, basically, which in stage races is 'big four') have a margin over the rest when it comes down to super performances which make a difference.

Maybe Vingegaard will have his TdF legs & that'll be that but logic still dictates there's enough factors present (Vingegaard's TdF fatigue versus Evenepoel & Roglič having prepared specifically with altitude training) to make the Vuelta a proper race. At least more so than the Tour which went from tight fought duel to atomisation when Pog imploded.

Vingegaard, Roglič & Evenepoel should therefor all 3 be favorites with equal odds in my opinion. Ayuso is a bit below until he can show he's at that top level in a GT.

 

[tobydawq]

Does this reflect the JV announcement? I don’t gamble so don’t know where to look. I would have guessed:

1. Vingegaard
2. Evenepoel
3. Roglic
4. Ayuso

But I personally would say:

1. Roglic
2. Vingegaard
3. Evenepoel
4. Ayuso

My reasoning:
I think Roglic will be hyper motivated, the Vuelta suits him, and I think he should be closer to peak form than Vingegaard. However, I think there is a real chance Vingegaard smashes Angliru so I have him second. Remco third because he has more confused priorities and this doesn’t (on paper) *** him as well. Ayuso hasn’t shown enough to rate higher but we could be in for a 2020 Pogi leap forward.

How did you spell 'suit' to get it censored?

 

[Red Rick]

Betting odds will very likely just have Vingegaard as the favorite I reckon.

 

[Red Rick]

How did you spell 'suit' to get it censored?

u and h are adjacent on a keyboard I guess

 

[theyoungest]

Full disclosures I didn’t watch the race this year. Looking at the results the dominance of Vingegaard only appeared in the last stage, and on top of that his biggest competitor was Landa. Looking at the final GC I don’t really see a lot of competition that is comparable to the likes of Thomas, Ayuso, Roglic and Evenepoel. So how is that comparable?

It's not so much the competition (although last year we've been led to believe Enric Mas is a feared competitor) but the way he demolished them. Your point was that Vingegaard can only do well when he's absolutely perfectly prepared and peaks for a race. My point is that's nonsense. And the way he rode Itzulia is proof of that.

 

[Berniece]

Although last year we've been led to believe Enric Mas is a feared competitor

The only guy that was able to follow Pogacar in Lombardia? Not Vingegaard but Mas, you mean that guy? Yeah he was a feared competitor because he was in top shape.

 

[theyoungest]

The only guy that was able to follow Pogacar in Lombardia? Not Vingegaard but Mas, you mean that guy? Yeah he was a feared competitor because he was in top shape.

And let me guess, Vingegaard could only drop him in Itzulia because he wasn't in shape

 

[Berniece]

And let me guess, Vingegaard could only drop him in Itzulia because he wasn't in shape

Yes Mas wasn't in shape, but in general Vingegaard should be able to drop Mas in most cases. I'm not disputing that. I'm only saying that Vingegaard also showed that if he isn't at 100%, he isn't nearly as good as when he is. I don't believe he'll be at 100% in the Vuelta, Roglic/Evenepoel/Ayuso will, so I wouldn't be surprised if eventually Vingegaard will ride for Roglic, and he won't finish on the podium.

Who takes the top spot I don't know. I've got a preference of course, but I'm not 100% sure he'll finish first

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I can understand as an Evenepoel fan you're holding on to the idea that Vingegaard can't perform outside of races he doesn't peak for, but I suggest you watch some of the Itzulia stages this year. He was by far the strongest. And I mean by far.

Except it's not just about peaking, it's also about recovery and fatigue after a TDF which his own team tried to make as hard as possible for him to crack the competition. Assuming he will not be in his best form at the Vuelta has little to do with which rider you cheer for, rather common sense. Also, why would one assume the riders he beat in Itzulia were closer to their peak than Vingegaard? Yet now he will come up against riders who are not "equally" prepared, but potentially better. And who are, with all due respect, a few levels above the competition he beat in Itzulia. And i'm not just talking about one guy specifically.

 

[Red Rick]

Here's some doubles to look at

Froome

2012: Dominant Tour win 2nd place - fades in Vuelta and gets 4th at like 10 minutes.
2015: Dominant climbing level along with Quintana in the Tour - was getting dropped by 15 guy groups early in the Vuelta
2016: More moderate win in the Tour, got 2nd in Vuelta and definitely 2nd best climber
2017: Tamest Tour win, but wins Vuelta pretty comfortably

Quintana
2015: Highest Tour level - significantly weaker in the Vuelta
2016: Underwhelming Tour - Wins Vuelta
2018-2019: Kinda meh in both

Valverde
2008: Inconsistent in both Tour and Vuelta
2012: Bad in the Tour, one of his best Vueltas
2013: Good in Tour apart from crosswinds, good in Vuelta, but neither were his best career performances in those races
2014: Bad in Tour, better in Vuelta
2015: Best Tour, weak Vuelta
2016: Let's ignore cause Giro
2018: Bad Tour, slightly solid Vuelta
2019: Bad Tour, very strong Vuelta
2020: Equally washed at both Tour and Vuelta really
2021: Terrible at Tour, but was looking better in Vuelta

Purito
2010: Probably similar level in both Tour and Vuelta
2013: 3rd in Tour and 4th in Vuelta, with the former being clearly higher level
2014: Tries to KoM Tour, much better in Vuelta
2015: Stage hunting/KoM Tour, gets 2nd in Vuelta

Mas
2020: Only consistent double, 5th in both
2021-2022: Very meh at Tour, best of the rest at Vuelta

This pattern basically holds for a lot of other riders as well. Nobody holds the same level in the Vuelta if they're flying to the moon in July