Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Samu Cuenca]

He's already lost his trident, or returned it to the bottom of the ocean.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1767488979098636747

View: https://twitter.com/grischaniermann/status/1767488979098636747

 

[kn0s]

For sure it will be 58 kg on Tour de France, but in the calculations, normally they use a standard weight, to compare the performances of each rider.

I know it's normalized. I was just thinking that with these numbers from "Pogileaks" coming from this Mou character, the weigh is probably very close to correct. Same when Remco postes his adventures. While with Jonas we only really get these normalized value's. I don't put too much stock in this stuff, but just a thought.

 

[Froome]

I know it's normalized. I was just thinking that with these numbers from "Pogileaks" coming from this Mou character, the weigh is probably very close to correct. Same when Remco postes his adventures. While with Jonas we only really get these normalized value's. I don't put too much stock in this stuff, but just a thought.

Those "pogileaks" are funny because it would mean that Pogacar stagnated in the last couple years. Probably he can do even better than the numbers he talked about in those specific conditions.
Obviously Pogacar will be even more stronger this year, Matxin already said that, we don't need a Mou from the Aliexpress to say something like that. Since 2020 the peloton is getting faster and faster.
Pogi will be even stronger than last year, Vingegaard will be even stronger than last year, Evenepoel will also be more stronger than last year, and even Roglic can be more stronger this year even if he has 34 years because he started cycling more later and we already saw guys like Thomas getting better with 37 years than when he won the Tour in 2018.

Like the engineer Portoleau speaks in the article, guys like hindley are also even more stronger this year in March than in the same time last year.

The peloton is getting faster and faster, year after year.

In terms of weight, Vingegaard already said that 58 kg is the perfect weight for him.

 

[GroupDK]

Article about the Vuelta, and Vingegaard, Kuss, Roglic drama and why Roglic had to go.

https://imgur.com/ejhQQuC

View: https://imgur.com/ejhQQuC

 

[Netserk]

It basically confirms what we knew back then. The original agreement in the team was to race for the title. Vingegaard preferred the team to ride for Kuss, while Rogla wanted freedom to go for it as had been the plan. Then after Angliru, management turned around and decided to end the race for the title.

I hope the documentary will show more about Bejes and the reactions afterwards.

 

[Bolder]

Respect for Landa, didn't know most of the peloton was backing Kuss. Roglic didn't have to prove anything at that point. Everyone knew why Kuss was in yellow but Roglic just had to make it about himself. Of course, his fate at Visma was sealed the day Vingegaard was announced for the Vuela, because Jonas doesn't race not to win...

 

[Netserk]

Respect for Landa, didn't know most of the peloton was backing Kuss. Roglic didn't have to prove anything at that point. Everyone knew why Kuss was in yellow but Roglic just had to make it about himself. Of course, his fate at Visma was sealed the day Vingegaard was announced for the Vuela, because Jonas doesn't race not to win...

Kuss was in red. Rogla rode for the win as they had agreed to. That was the deal in the team, bring all the captains and let them race.

 

[Red Rick]

It basically confirms what we knew back then. The original agreement in the team was to race for the title. Vingegaard preferred the team to ride for Kuss, while Rogla wanted freedom to go for it as had been the plan. Then after Angliru, management turned around and decided to end the race for the title.

I hope the documentary will show more about Bejes and the reactions afterwards.

Bejes is where the team managment *** it up completely, so I doubt it'll be in.

But what I love most is how they say "Roglic doesn't communicate" and then they also said "Roglic flat out said he wants to win and he therefor wants to attack"

 

[Elos Anjos]

Article about the Vuelta, and Vingegaard, Kuss, Roglic drama and why Roglic had to go.

https://imgur.com/ejhQQuC

View: https://imgur.com/ejhQQuC

Another very objective and neutral piece. Thanks a lot.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Landismo the legend!

Roglic rode for the win but so did Vingo, who attacked another day (and left Kuss on Angliru as well). The team allowed it but it was terrible PR wise so they stopped it after Angliru. A very rare situation in a GT, we may never seen something like that again - top 3 guys from one team with no rival in sight.

 

[Bolder]

Kuss was in red. Rogla rode for the win as they had agreed to. That was the deal in the team, bring all the captains and let them race.

Exactly, but it was sadistic to agree to that on the part of Visma management. At some point Vingegaard had second thoughts, but Roglic didn't.

The whole situation was effed, and to attack Kuss on the Angliru was just nasty. There was absolutely no need to do that. The fact that Landa saved Kuss says a lot about Visma's agreement...

Anyway, I'm looking forward to watching the series...i might have a different view after that although we'll never know the whole story.

 

[Red Rick]

Exactly, but it was sadistic to agree to that on the part of Visma management. At some point Vingegaard had second thoughts, but Roglic didn't.

The whole situation was effed, and to attack Kuss on the Angliru was just nasty. There was absolutely no need to do that. The fact that Landa saved Kuss says a lot about Visma's agreement...

Anyway, I'm looking forward to watching the series...i might have a different view after that although we'll never know the whole story.

It was nasty to follow previously established plans to race for it?

If Angliru was nasty, then Bejes was nasty, Tourmalet was nasty, and basically Kuss getting in the break that day was disgusting to begin with

 

[Netserk]

Of course there was a need for that! How else would Rogla win the Vuelta?

There's nothing nasty about actually racing bike races.

 

[Froome]

Another very objective and neutral piece. Thanks a lot.

Welcome back.

 

[GroupDK]

Another very objective and neutral piece. Thanks a lot.

What exactly do you have a problem with in that article that solely refers to the Amazon Prime movie "All in - The Trilogy" that were behind the scene throughout the Vuelta.

The article is mostly based on Sepp Kuss's own words.
Is it simply reality / facts, that you have a hard time with?
If so, you need to explain how one should nurse - reality - to not rub' or offend you the wrong way.

it's just entertainment, take it for what it is, and enjoy these superb cyclists giving us all a show.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qAsxH6YffQ

 

[Bolder]

It was nasty to follow previously established plans to race for it?

If Angliru was nasty, then Bejes was nasty, Tourmalet was nasty, and basically Kuss getting in the break that day was disgusting to begin with

No, the "plan" itself was misguided. Three riders on the same team attacking each other? That's like a...Movistar tactic.

Question: what would have been the effect on Visma if Vingegaard and Roglic had taken first and second on GC after relaying each other to drop Kuss on the Angliru? Roglic leaves anyway, and Kuss's agent starts dialing for dollars. No way Kuss works for Vingegaard ever again. Even Vingegaard and Roglic knew it was a bad idea.

I've said this before: the outcome wasn't great but it was the least bad result.

 

[GroupDK]

No, the "plan" itself was misguided. Three riders on the same team attacking each other? That's like a...Movistar tactic.

Question: what would have been the effect on Visma if Vingegaard and Roglic had taken first and second on GC after relaying each other to drop Kuss on the Angliru? Roglic leaves anyway, and Kuss's agent starts dialing for dollars. No way Kuss works for Vingegaard ever again. Even Vingegaard and Roglic knew it was a bad idea.

I've said this before: the outcome wasn't great but it was the least bad result.

Maybe you should watch the context from Vuelta and what they are actually saying and not a spun narrative that you're pulling out of nothing.

Sepp Kuss.
Vuelta 2023
- It was a difficult situation to handle. I just focused on myself.
- Primoz wanted to change it, Jonas wanted to keep it as it was.(as in let Kuss get the Vuelta)

Sepp Kuss clearly expressed that Vingegaard (who did seem like the strongest of the bunch) was in fact okay that the team would focused on Sepp Kuss to get the win but Roglic wanted things to change, and get the win.
The team then decided that the best rider should win, and they raced about it, even VIngegaard that otherwise had accepted to focus on Sepp Kuss, but it gave a backlash from certain viewers in the last final stages.

It seems like Kuss is very loyal and grateful to Vingegaard that he even from an early point wanted Kuss to win, and it was an angry Roglic who still had an appetite for the win, and take it from his teammate Kuss.
And after the Vuelta Roglic wanted his contract terminated, even though he clearly wouldn't have won Vuelta as Vingegaard seemed quite a bit stronger if Kuss was taken out of the equation.

The documentary "All In - The Trilogy" gives a good insight, on who actually did what, so it ain't speculation from certain characters on social media that is setting the trend or bias.

 

[acm]

He says one thing, but he does the opposite.

 

[GroupDK]

He says one thing, but he does the opposite.

How..?? You didn't read the context.?
According to Sepp
Jonas wanted to keep it as it was (Kuss winning) Roglic wanted to change it and take the win from his teammate Kuss, as Roglic was just behind Kuss, and clearly felt he was stronger than Kuss (which I also do think he was)

Roglic then went to the team directors and created drama about the team's mo, to the point that the team leaders then decided they should all 3 race for it,
- As in let the best rider win, just as long as it was Jumbo Visma that won the Vuelta.
- and then they raced, which created a media backslash. that then flipped the coin, to the point they should focus on Kuss winning, and a decision that Roglic could not accept, to the point that he asked for his contract to be terminated, so he could get out of Dodge

It's pretty straightforward, unless you are so far up the tree, that it should only be secondary Roglic that should be allowed to race teammate Kuss,, and not the best Grand Tour rider on the planet, their main captain Vingegaard who certainly seemed like the strongest of them all in the third week of Vuelta 2023..

If they raced to the end, like went all out..
- I think Kuss would have been third, as both Vingegaard and also Roglic seemed stronger in these critical stages in the third week.

I bet Sepp Kuss, also knows that he got that Vuelta23 win because Vingegaard didn't put his foot down.
Jonas even expressed early that he was okay with Kuss winning the Vuelta, as one thing on "Jumbo Visma" is Roglic wanting something, - its another thing with Vingegaard, their main big star & the rider they don't wanna lose for obvious reasons.

It's the same with Tadej Pogacar, you can bet he also has the latitude to decide, what is up or down and how you proceed and the team will obey.
His words carry more weight than secondary teammates.

 

[Red Rick]

Vingegaard wanting to keep it as it was was clearly indicated by attacking Tourmalet, attacking Bejes, and then joining Roglic on the Angliru instead of staying with Kuss.

But really the best part is framing it like backstabbing when Roglic was perfectly upfront about his intentions.

 

[Red Rick]

No, the "plan" itself was misguided. Three riders on the same team attacking each other? That's like a...Movistar tactic.

Question: what would have been the effect on Visma if Vingegaard and Roglic had taken first and second on GC after relaying each other to drop Kuss on the Angliru? Roglic leaves anyway, and Kuss's agent starts dialing for dollars. No way Kuss works for Vingegaard ever again. Even Vingegaard and Roglic knew it was a bad idea.

I've said this before: the outcome wasn't great but it was the least bad result.

In other news, Contador should not have attacked Armstrong

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Vingegaard wanting to keep it as it was was clearly indicated by attacking Tourmalet, attacking Bejes, and then joining Roglic on the Angliru instead of staying with Kuss.

But really the best part is framing it like backstabbing when Roglic was perfectly upfront about his intentions.

Yeah, Rogla was almost made a villain here while Vingo also wanted to win (surely being less vocal about it though). Either you criticize both or none. The team management allowed the attacks so it's their responsibility and they should be criticized. To me personally it's ok if all have freedom to attack (this is racing) but Rogla & Vingo disappearing ahead of Kuss in the fog of Angliru (and a guy from another team helping) gave the team a terrible image (to some extent it's a team sport after all).

 

[pablohidalgo7]

In any case, as a Roglic follower, I'm not really seeing the problem with everything that's coming out these months, even if that's the intention. The fact that he always wants to win and does not let himself be trampled by collective thinking if it does him bad, for me leaves him in a very good place.
Actually I would have more problems if I were a Vingegaard fan knowing that such a champion was okay with himself gifting a grand Tour(no matter how much Kuss deserves it).
But well, in general, Spanish cycling fans we clash a lot with the mentality of the Anglo-Saxon cycling world but also and also even with the northern-central European cycling enviroment, even if it is generalizing too much.

 

[Blanco]

Vingegaard wanting to keep it as it was was clearly indicated by attacking Tourmalet, attacking Bejes, and then joining Roglic on the Angliru instead of staying with Kuss.

But really the best part is framing it like backstabbing when Roglic was perfectly upfront about his intentions.

Vingegaard has that "sweet talk", like a politician.
Deeds however...

 

[Froome]

Former teammate Tony Martin couldn't see Jonas Vingegaard's potential right away: "Grischa Niermann told me back in Jonas's first year that he was the next big thing"

This year's edition of Tour de France could go down

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