Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Krzysztof_O]

What is also very interesting is that Zeeman is backpaddeling when it comes to Vingegaards possible form. Which is not so surprising given his injuries and what came out as news (the little there was) over the last month.
The argument made in the article is that Vingegaard could only still be of use in the Tour this season, because he will miss the Vuelta for personal reasons, so they could take him as a domestique (which the authors claim would be unproblematic because of his personality).

Makes me wonder if he'll show up at all.

He will be a domestique until the third week, when they will finally get the God of Watts protocol going.

 

[sam6]

What is also very interesting is that Zeeman is backpaddeling when it comes to Vingegaards possible form. Which is not so surprising given his injuries and what came out as news (the little there was) over the last month.
The argument made in the article is that Vingegaard could only still be of use in the Tour this season, because he will miss the Vuelta for personal reasons, so they could take him as a domestique (which the authors claim would be unproblematic because of his personality).

Makes me wonder if he'll show up at all.

He could still target Worlds and Lombardia. I suspect Pogi will beat him in them as he has the better sprint and is better in one-day races but he would probably be third favourite after Pogi and Roglic for those races. I'd be interested to see him seriously target them

 

[Potomac]

What they should have done is said "No Jonas for TdF" the entire time, and then surprise everyone with the latest possible entry moment.

That would have been the biggest mind game they could have played on UAE.

 

[Froome]

What they should have done is said "No Jonas for TdF" the entire time, and then surprise everyone with the latest possible entry moment.

That would have been the biggest mind game they could have played on UAE.

Difficult to do that when you are 1 month in altitude at Tignes before the Tour. It would be very suspicious.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Difficult to do that when you are 1 month in altitude at Tignes before the Tour. It would be very suspicious.

Nah, they would say he is spending time with family and considering retirement. Riding in the Alps in some disguise would be enough. Imagine Teddy's face at the Tour presentation then!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H_DSErYUZk

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Nah, they would say he is spending time with family and considering retirement. Riding in the Alps in some disguise would be enough. Imagine Teddy's face at the Tour presentation then!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H_DSErYUZk

Is that Remco after a few days off the bike (allegedly)?

 

[Rackham]

I wonder whether he had very fast progress initially but since then he's not quite 'there' in terms of numbers, i.e. at least not where they want to be with ten days to go. It would explain some of the Mallorca hype & buzz when he went to Tignes, then now some of the backpaddling.

I mean trying to 'lower expectations' or go unnoticed & underhyped is completely impossible anyway because we're talking about Jonas Vingegaard. What do you think UAE is going to do on the first day? They're going to go hard as possible to test Vingegaard. Then they'll do the same on stage 4 as well.

There will be no hiding. Either he's at the right level & he'll show it immediately (& he'll be seen as the number one contender by everyone), or he's not & he'll get found out. But even then UAE will continue to 'punish' him whenever they can.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say there's only one rider Pog 'fears' in the Tour & that's Jonas Vingegaard.

 

[Froome]

Is that Remco after a few days off the bike (allegedly)?

At least now Remco weighs less because he doesn't have this hair, but logic is still complaining.

Vingegaard had a similar hair.

 

[Froome]

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Vingegaard had a similar hair.

As did I many years ago, as this photo I posted in the race design thread can confirm. However nowadays I'm just a brown haired guy who eats 235 carbs an hour like the pros, but never does any training.

 

[meat puppet]

Never trust a visma principle says he'll come in red hot.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

At least now Remco weighs less because he doesn't have this hair, but logic is still complaining.

Vingegaard had a similar hair.

Too bad JV-QS merger didn't happen. Remco's own mother wouldn't recognize him after starvation camps with Vingo.

 

[Mayomaniac]

If he isn't good enough to fight for the win (or even a podium), I can see the team using him in a "2022 Roglic on Galibier" role, as bait to make Pogacar and UAE panic and make mistakes.
At least that's what I hope, because frankly the race needs it...

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

If he isn't good enough to fight for the win (or even a podium), I can see the team using him in a "2022 Roglic on Galibier" role, as bait to make Pogacar and UAE panic and make mistakes.
At least that's what I hope, because frankly the race needs it...

Just that Pogacar this time around seems to have a super strong team. They'd somehow have to get rid of everyone but Pogacar first, and on top of that Jorgensen (I suppose he's plan B) would have to be able to pose a threat to Pogacar in the first place. The way things stand right now I'd expect this to happen to a Jumbo rider this time, chasing Almeida or Ayuso and Pogi still would be left with Yates.

 

[awavey]

But remember anything can happen in the Tour. 10 years ago Froome was expected to win easily with a strong team to back him up, with Contador his nearest rival.

Froome didn't make it past the 5th day of racing, Contador didn't get past the first rest day. So Nibali won instead.

So sure UAE look strong, Pog as a favourite, but the rider who wins is the one who finishes the race in 1st place, not always the strongest & favourite at the start.

Even a not fully fit Vingegaard still has a chance, and will occupy UAEs thinking, which might enable other Visma riders to win stages.

As I've said before there are no downsides to Visma picking him.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

It's pretty clear he won't be at his absolute best. I guess Jumbo are hoping he'll be somewhere between Paris-Nice 2023/Tour 2021 or at best Vuelta 2023 level.
So a level below Pogacar but competitive for the podium. And if Pogacar crashes/gets sick suddenly all kind of things are possible.

If he's clearly below that they better pull the plug completely and build towards later season target (whatever they are if he doesnt do Vuelta for whatever reason) because having him ride around like Vuelta Andy Schleck without the pub visits would be a total waste.

 

[Earns1985]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1803432286794154222

View: https://x.com/MatteoJorg/status/1803432286794154222

 

[Froome]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1803432286794154222

View: https://x.com/MatteoJorg/status/1803432286794154222

I thought it was Visma trolling through a newspaper but that's not even the case.

Maybe the story of Vingegaard not doing the Vuelta due to personal reasons, it's also something invented, since there's no plausible source saying something like that.

 

[glassmoon]

I'll never understand how some people could be even for 2 seconds expecting him to be in winning TdF shape after that crash... I mean being a fanboy is one thing but come on... even him just be somewhat able to start and finish TdF should be considered a miracle no matter what Visma/teammates were saying last weeks

 

[Nick2413]

I'll never understand how some people could be even for 2 seconds expecting him to be in winning TdF shape after that crash... I mean being a fanboy is one thing but come on... even him just be somewhat able to start and finish TdF should be considered a miracle no matter what Visma/teammates were saying last weeks

To be fair, doing what he did in the last 2 Tours to a rider like Pogacar makes almost anything believable.

 

[Rackham]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1803432286794154222

View: https://x.com/MatteoJorg/status/1803432286794154222

I suspect Matteo Jorgenson is in the trickiest of 'political' positions right now... because he probably has the best numbers in the team with 10 days to go until the TdF.

So how do you prepare for the Tour tactically when your star rider isn't as good as another guy on the team? Do they keep Vingegaard protected & hope he gets better in the third week? Or do they do an all-in on Jorgenson for the podium (which based on his Dauphiné form seems like a realistic target).

I mean I'm just speculating here but I honestly do believe right here & now Jorgenson is Visma's best climber & best rouleur as things stand.

 

[Potomac]

I suspect Matteo Jorgenson is in the trickiest of 'political' positions right now... because he probably has the best numbers in the team with 10 days to go until the TdF.

So how do you prepare for the Tour tactically when your star rider isn't as good as another guy on the team? Do they keep Vingegaard protected & hope he gets better in the third week? Or do they do an all-in on Jorgenson for the podium (which based on his Dauphiné form seems like a realistic target).

I mean I'm just speculating here but I honestly do believe right here & now Jorgenson is Visma's best climber & best rouleur as things stand.

It'll be Kuss, Vingo, and Jorgenson on the podium, with all the political drama of last year's Vuelta.

Or not.

 

[Nick2413]

I suspect Matteo Jorgenson is in the trickiest of 'political' positions right now... because he probably has the best numbers in the team with 10 days to go until the TdF.

So how do you prepare for the Tour tactically when your star rider isn't as good as another guy on the team? Do they keep Vingegaard protected & hope he gets better in the third week? Or do they do an all-in on Jorgenson for the podium (which based on his Dauphiné form seems like a realistic target).

I mean I'm just speculating here but I honestly do believe right here & now Jorgenson is Visma's best climber & best rouleur as things stand.

Jorgensen is a one week racer. I’d still put money on Kuss over him, but it’s not out of the question for him to prove otherwise.

 

[glassmoon]

To be fair, doing what he did in the last 2 Tours to a rider like Pogacar makes almost anything believable.

Nothing to do with crashing that hard and with such injuries imho

 

[Rackham]

Jorgensen is a one week racer. I’d still put money on Kuss over him, but it’s not out of the question for him to prove otherwise.

I think this is pretty much the basis of all Visma's issues right now, i.e. on 'paper', there's no match. Vingegaard is the best GT rider in the world & Sepp Kuss is one of the best climbers in the world.

But, due to unforeseen factors (Vingegaard's injuries & Sepp Kuss's loss of form) it becomes apparent to me at least Matteo Jorgenson is probably the best rider on the team right now from a GC perspective.

I think they'll try to protect both Jorgenson & Vingegaard in the first couple of weeks. I'm less sure about Kuss.